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Hmos Houses In Multiple Occupation - Room Keys Forbidden?


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HOLA441

Is this now law? That sharers in a HMO cannot have room keys due to it being against the fire regs?

True?

So how do sharers maintain their security while asleep, and keep their belongings safe from borrowers or thieves when they're out their room?

Was astounded to hear this, puts me right off getting a share in future if now law.

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HOLA442
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HOLA443
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HOLA444
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HOLA445

It'a rubbish. Everybody has their own room with a lock on it. My company rents these out, there is no way we would deny anybody the right to lock their door.

The OP was about fire regulations not the landlord's willingness to give out keys.

Maybe you are unknowingly in breach of fire regulations and therefore put your building insurance cover at risk?

So it's true then?

I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

Edited by awake_eagle
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HOLA446

The OP was BS purporting to be about fire regulations not the landlord's willingness to give out keys.

[corrected for you]

Just try and take room keys away from hotel guests, or students in a hall of residence! Looks to me like a 'landlord' who wants the profit of a HMO without the responsibilities. ICBW but I have an idea those responsibilities include fire regulations specific to HMOs, over and above those for regular rentals or owner-occupiers.

Hundred to one the landlord is a petty crook trying to duck out of his responsibilities.

Edited by porca misèria
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HOLA447

Is this now law? That sharers in a HMO cannot have room keys due to it being against the fire regs?

True?

So how do sharers maintain their security while asleep, and keep their belongings safe from borrowers or thieves when they're out their room?

Was astounded to hear this, puts me right off getting a share in future if now law.

It's nonsense, the housing act 2004 makes provisions for HMO to be licensed with the local authority part of which is having adequate fire protection for tenants which would include, self closing fire doors, a functioning fire alarm, smoke detectors, fire blankets etc.

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HOLA448

The OP was about fire regulations not the landlord's willingness to give out keys.

Maybe you are unknowingly in breach of fire regulations and therefore put your building insurance cover at risk?

I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

I assure you we're shit hot on everything to do with H&S, it's rubbish and the LL is just throwing it in as an excuse so he can wander in and go through people's possessions.

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HOLA449

It'a rubbish. Everybody has their own room with a lock on it. My company rents these out, there is no way we would deny anybody the right to lock their door.

[corrected for you]

Just try and take room keys away from hotel guests, or students in a hall of residence! Looks to me like a 'landlord' who wants the profit of a HMO without the responsibilities. ICBW but I have an idea those responsibilities include fire regulations specific to HMOs, over and above those for regular rentals or owner-occupiers.

Hundred to one the landlord is a petty crook trying to duck out of his responsibilities.

It's nonsense, the housing act 2004 makes provisions for HMO to be licensed with the local authority part of which is having adequate fire protection for tenants which would include, self closing fire doors, a functioning fire alarm, smoke detectors, fire blankets etc.

Thanks for the replies all.

I thought it might be BS.

I wonder what the landlord there is up to :angry: (I say landlord, it's a woman, in a posh area, and I think she used to be on TV because have seen her before somewhere - well, looks as if it might have been Crimewatch)

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HOLA4410

Thanks for the replies all.

I thought it might be BS.

I wonder what the landlord there is up to :angry: (I say landlord, it's a woman, in a posh area, and I think she used to be on TV because have seen her before somewhere - well, looks as if it might have been Crimewatch)

The only caveat I know of ( having been involved in student letting for years, including via Uni Accommodation Offices) is that that the door lock must be of the Yale type - i.e. openable from the inside without a key.

Where security & Fire regs do collide is on Front doors - Fire regs require them to be openable without a key from the inside; insurance cos want 5-lever mortise locks.

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HOLA4411

The only reason I can think that they wouldn't want to give you keys is if they were to later claim you were a lodger in order to reduce your rights. If you have the ability to lock the door to your room you become a tenant and have many more rights than a lodger who has no exclusive access to any part of the property.

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HOLA4412

The only caveat I know of ( having been involved in student letting for years, including via Uni Accommodation Offices) is that that the door lock must be of the Yale type - i.e. openable from the inside without a key.

Where security & Fire regs do collide is on Front doors - Fire regs require them to be openable without a key from the inside; insurance cos want 5-lever mortise locks.

You mean a Yale on each sharers room? No she has a normal lock on each room, 2 lever or 1 lever.

The only reason I can think that they wouldn't want to give you keys is if they were to later claim you were a lodger in order to reduce your rights. If you have the ability to lock the door to your room you become a tenant and have many more rights than a lodger who has no exclusive access to any part of the property.

Aha, might be bingo! there because when I asked it turns out not to be an AST but a sharer agreement of some sort "drawn up by my solicitor" she said

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HOLA4414

I'd be quietly looking for another place! Not only do you not have any rights but if there are multiple lodgers you are at risk of problems with security/privacy.

I'm not in there, yet. I need somewhere short term as back abroad soon. I told her the keys thing is news to me and not acceptable really, so searching elsewhere but will check I get a key for any I view

Thanks for your advice!

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HOLA4415

I assure you we're shit hot on everything to do with H&S, it's rubbish and the LL is just throwing it in as an excuse so he can wander in and go through people's possessions.

I think he is throwing it in as an excuse to say it isn't an HMO.

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HOLA4416

IIRC, fire regs say that it needs to be possible to open the doors from the inside without a key, even when locked, meaning it needs to be one of those thumb-turn locks or something similar.

If the locks they happen to have installed are different (i.e. a 'normal' lock), they probably can't give you keys for your rooms due to fire regs because their locks are non-compliant.. although the underlying reason is that they can't be bothered to install the correct type of lock rather than locks being against fire regs on principle.

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HOLA4417

The lack of AST would indicate that the LL isn't properly registered as a HMO and is trying to get around this by keeping his 'tenants' as lodgers.

I live in HMO properly done - all rooms have locks which can be unlocked from the inside. Hardwired fire alarms. Fire extinguishers and blankets. Even the PAT testing is done. The agreement between myself and the LL is an AST and my deposit is in the DPS.

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HOLA4418
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HOLA4419

The lack of AST would indicate that the LL isn't properly registered as a HMO and is trying to get around this by keeping his 'tenants' as lodgers.

I live in HMO properly done - all rooms have locks which can be unlocked from the inside. Hardwired fire alarms. Fire extinguishers and blankets. Even the PAT testing is done. The agreement between myself and the LL is an AST and my deposit is in the DPS.

Only if he's dim / ill advised / hasn't read the legislation. Lodgers still count as households unless they are family, though I believe you can have two of them. Would have to dig around for the exact link, but the legislators did try very hard to make difficult to wriggle out of the HMO definition.

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  • 4 months later...
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HOLA4420

It'a rubbish. Everybody has their own room with a lock on it. My company rents these out, there is no way we would deny anybody the right to lock their door.

Hi my name is Mike and I’m in need of help with my dissertation. I am looking for landlord volunteers to fill out a simple questionnaire which will take no more than 5 minutes. I’m doing my dissertation on mandatory licencing for HMOs and am trying to get a landlords point of view. The questionnaire is 100% anonymous.

Please click on the following link and it will take you straight to it: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/97Y3SMC

Your time will be much appreciated

Kind Regards

Mike

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HOLA4421

Hi my name is Mike and I’m in need of help with my dissertation. I am looking for landlord volunteers to fill out a simple questionnaire which will take no more than 5 minutes. I’m doing my dissertation on mandatory licencing for HMOs and am trying to get a landlords point of view. The questionnaire is 100% anonymous.

Please click on the following link and it will take you straight to it: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/97Y3SMC

Your time will be much appreciated

Kind Regards

Mike

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HOLA4422

Hi my name is Mike and I’m in need of help with my dissertation. I am looking for landlord volunteers to fill out a simple questionnaire which will take no more than 5 minutes. I’m doing my dissertation on mandatory licencing for HMOs and am trying to get a landlords point of view. The questionnaire is 100% anonymous.

Please click on the following link and it will take you straight to it: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/97Y3SMC

Your time will be much appreciated

Kind Regards

Mike

try landlordzone

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HOLA4423

Is this now law? That sharers in a HMO cannot have room keys due to it being against the fire regs?

True?

No. This is false.

The law is that the doors (to the rooms) and to the front door, must have a means of "emergency egress". In other words, they should not be able to stop someone getting out in an emergency. The most practical way of doing this is to install a lock which can be turned from the inside without a key.

Insurance grade locks (BS 3621 as are recommended for front doors) are specifically required to block egress (so cannot be opened from the inside without a key). The idea being is that if you can stop a thief from getting out through a door, they'll think twice before trying to hump stuff out of a window.

The problem here is likely that the landlord has installed the wrong type of locks (probably fitting insurance approved locks to the individual room doors), and does not want to change them for the correct type.

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HOLA4424

Hi my name is Mike and I’m in need of help with my dissertation. I am looking for landlord volunteers to fill out a simple questionnaire which will take no more than 5 minutes. I’m doing my dissertation on mandatory licencing for HMOs and am trying to get a landlords point of view. The questionnaire is 100% anonymous.

Please click on the following link and it will take you straight to it: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/97Y3SMC

Your time will be much appreciated

Kind Regards

Mike

Had a quick look Mike but not really applicable as I'm with a registered provider running HMOs as part of SP contracts so they are already regulated to the nth degree, didn't want to skew your stats. Will populate if you want but it seems to be aimed at private landlords.

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