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Working & Living In Switzerland


The Masked Tulip

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HOLA441
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HOLA442

No, it is legit. I know the money is really excellent when you transfer Swiss Francs into Sterling - out of the world in fact - but I have heard some horror stories about how expensive Switzerland is.

I have a tendency to 'act dumb' on the internet when I seek information from others. I find you often get more information from people in that way and, in doing this here, I apologise to all. So I know the money is great and I know it will be an opportunity to get out of Wales and earn some serious money again...

But I have worked in Swiss banks in the past and have found them very dull, suffocating places so whether I could hack working in Switzerland is a huge factor for me. If the role was in the US, Amsterdam or Germany I know I could happily live and work there no problem.

If it was any other part of the EU it would be a simpe process to go and do the work for a month, work out whether I like it or not and then make a decision. With Switzerland it appears to be quite a complicated proceedure.

I also have good friends here in Wales and I enjoy water-sports - not the kinky kind - so rellocating to a country where a major hobby of mine would be impossible is a big decision to factor in.

My plan has been to seek short-term contracts around the World - 6 months max and then use Wales as a base for quality of life. I had not thought about a move for 12 months or longer.

Having been ill in the past my focus is not on money or career or ego. I just want to live life and be happy with as litle as stress as possible. I know that it might sound arrogant to say as so many of us earn such rubbish wages in comparission to the sums mentioned above... but, believe me, if you had walked in my shoes in the last few years you would understand where I am coming from.

im sorry but it comes across as Rubbish,nonsense and as you say completely dumb,

Firstly culturally Switzerland is very similar to Germany, so if Germanys not a problem neither is Switzerland, the only difference is Switzerland has better weather,scenery and Lakes

Secondly you are worried about the cost, the average salary here is about 40K CHF (35 K GBP) thats 40K CHF and the Swiss (thats people earning the prementioned 40K) are stated as consistently having the highest living standard in the world, doesnt go with everyone earning under 200K living on the streets , begging for food. After all taxes, insurances, rental that leaves you with well over 100K a year and you are worried about the cost of a bigmac, behave

Thirdly You worked for some swiss Banks, so have i for my sins in the past, i found them no different to any others British/American/French with the people working there, and your job isnt even with a Bank (perhaps the problems working in IT, i could understand that)

Fourth, If it was any other part of the EU?in Switzerland if you have a British passport and a contract you have exactly the same rules as the EU, you can turn up for a month and p!ss off if you dont like it, no different to anywhere else in the EU. Any A1 country gives automatic permit to work in Switzerland provided you have a contract, only if you keep a UK contract via secondment do you need to go through being formally approved under the quota

Fifth Your personal freindship aspects are your own matter but seeing as you more than nearly anyone on here keeps moaning about leaving the UK, one day to the US, the next to Switzerland, the next to wherever, it is rather strange.

The reason i imagine people are questioning your integrity with it is because it makes no sense given your posts on here and all the excuses outside of the personal ones (which are for you to know alone) are patently nonsense to anyone living in the country

Edited by Mary Cassatt
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HOLA443
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HOLA444

im sorry but it comes across as Rubbish,nonsense and as you say completely dumb,

Firstly culturally Switzerland is very similar to Germany, so if Germanys not a problem neither is Switzerland, the only difference is Switzerland has better weather,scenery and Lakes

Secondly you are worried about the cost, the average salary here is about 40K CHF (35 K GBP) thats 40K CHF and the Swiss (thats people earning the prementioned 40K) are stated as consistently having the highest living standard in the world, doesnt go with everyone earning under 200K living on the streets. After all taxes, insurances, rental that leaves you with well over 100K a year and you are worried about the cost of a bigmac, behave

Thirdly You worked for some swiss Banks, so have i for my sins in the past, i found them no different to any others British/American/French with the people working there, and your job isnt even with a Bank (perhaps the problems working in IT, i could understand that)

Fourth, If it was any other part of the EU?in Switzerland if you have a British passport and a contract you have exactly the same rules as the EU, you can turn up for a month and p!ss off if you dont like it, no different to anywhere else in the EU. Any A1 country gives automatic permit to work in Switzerland provided you have a contract, only if you keep a UK contract via secondment do you need to go through being formally approved under the quota

Fifth Your personal freindship aspects are your own matter but seeing as you more than nearly anyone on here keeps moaning about leaving the UK, one day to the US, the next to Switzerland, the next to wherever, it is rather strange.

The reason i imagine people are questioning your integrity with it is because it makes no sense given your posts on here and all the excuses outside of the personal ones (which are for you to know alone) are patently nonsense to anyone living in the country

yep. BS or attention seeking or both.

'oooh, is that a lot of money, I'm no good at this currency lark'. ******.

Edited by frozen_out
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HOLA445

6 months for £87k, 9 months for £131k, 12 months for £175k if sterling stays the same!

I will come with you and do the shopping and cooking for 50%. You do like beans on toast don't you?

Live on beans on toast - especially since I bought 10,000 tins on HPC advice.

From initial discussions the deal will not be a 6 month one but a 12 month one with no option to walk away - apaprently due to the expense and complexity of putting in place the required visas, etc.

In the past others have told me how difficult it is to get to work in Swiss land and, perhaps more importantly, how difficult it is to get out of working there if you have 'tied yourself in' with a company which, apparently, is the only way to get to work there. Several people have described the legal difficulties of working in Swiss land as akin to the issues of working in places like Saudi - hence in the main why I was asking for info in here.

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HOLA446

Live on beans on toast - especially since I bought 10,000 tins on HPC advice.

From initial discussions the deal will not be a 6 month one but a 12 month one with no option to walk away - apaprently due to the expense and complexity of putting in place the required visas, etc.

In the past others have told me how difficult it is to get to work in Swiss land and, perhaps more importantly, how difficult it is to get out of working there if you have 'tied yourself in' with a company which, apparently, is the only way to get to work there. Several people have described the legal difficulties of working in Swiss land as akin to the issues of working in places like Saudi - hence in the main why I was asking for info in here.

How bad can it be?

I bet a lot of people would go to prison for a year for £175k :lol:

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HOLA447

Anyone here worked and lived in Switzerland - if so, what are the pros and cons?

I am told that it is nigh on impossible to work as your own company in Swissland so you effectively work as a permie with total income and NI taxes being about 25% of take-home pay, am told that monthly rental is about 1,000 to 1,300 Swiss Francs per month.

Other than financial, although I would like to know financial, what is the whole quality of life life... seems a bit far from the ocean for myself...

I'm a day rater that quit the UK last January. I work in Scandinavia, but as a general tip I would say watch out for the UK tax. Even if you pay 25% in Switzerland, expect to pay another +15% back in the UK if you don't stay out of the country for less than 90 days (it was defined to me as where I was at midnight, which roughly works out as 2 weekens home a month). Keep evidence of all flights back to UK incase the HMRC challenge you were out of the country.

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HOLA448

I'm a day rater that quit the UK last January. I work in Scandinavia, but as a general tip I would say watch out for the UK tax. Even if you pay 25% in Switzerland, expect to pay another +15% back in the UK if you don't stay out of the country for less than 90 days (it was defined to me as where I was at midnight, which roughly works out as 2 weekens home a month). Keep evidence of all flights back to UK incase the HMRC challenge you were out of the country.

This is the kind of info that is important.

I was told by a few people that the UK makes it nigh on impossible to non-domicile for tax and often people who get taxed in foreign countries end up with such a UK tax bill when they return home that working away, even on large sums, was not worth it.

I have been told that even still having a UK mobile phone number or contract, or paying the BBC licence fee or having any bill or direct debit in the UK is enough for the HMRC to bill you full whack.

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HOLA449

What an arrogant t*sser.

There is no need to put other Human Beings down. If that is the life that you have created for yourself then I hope, when you are older, you will begin to realise what a sh*t reality it is. I hope it works out for you.

1. I have lived and worked in England, Boston, Silicon Valley, Singapore and Amsterdam. I have hardly ever worked in Wales.

2. The company is a major US IT company - the job is real as is the salary.

Believe it or not, money is not everything in life for some people.

I have no idea how old you are in years or in emotional intelligence but, for me personally, money is not the great motivator in life. Happiness, Friendships, Loving relationships are my priority.

Perhaps something cr*p will happen to you oneday? Perhaps you will lose your job and your missus will walk out on you? Perhaps your missus will just get bored with you, have a few affairs and divorce you? Perhaps you will get a serious illness or some other health issue?

You know that song about some people taking joy in putting other people down because it makes their own lives seem less miserable - I will think of that everytime I read one of your posts in future.

You can offer advice and feel good about it. Or you can post snide remarks and go through life trying to put other people down. At the end of the day, those who act the latter always find that it eventually catches up with them.

It is amazing how the Human Conscience eventually kicks in, even many decades later. I have seen people who have lived sh*t, arrogant and bitter and nasty lives putting others down thinking nothing will affect them and then oneday, voila, the Human Mind kicks in and they fall apart mentally and physically.

Think it won't happen to you?

Nice post and its good to see your real face at last

Your suffering from Xenophobia or a morbid dislike of foreigners aren't you

What a troll you really are on a crash forum (sorry for using foul language) crash no longer applies on here anymore

I am pleased that you are in Wales its the best place for you but seeing as you are going no-where it does not really matter

Such hatred and i only disagreed with you give it a rest !

BTW They are looking for baggage handlers at Geneva Airport its an ideal job for you an IT bank clerk that has no real skills

You can put my bags onto the aircraft when i go on holiday in a few weeks time at least you don't have to speak fluent French

Your a communication paid troll (orange inside)

My dearest regards

Redwine

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HOLA4410
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HOLA4411

Nice post and its good to see your real face at last

Your suffering from Xenophobia or a morbid dislike of foreigners aren't you

What a troll you really are on a crash forum (sorry for using foul language) crash no longer applies on here anymore

I am pleased that you are in Wales its the best place for you but seeing as you are going no-where it does not really matter

Such hatred and i only disagreed with you give it a rest !

BTW They are looking for baggage handlers at Geneva Airport its an ideal job for you an IT bank clerk that has no real skills

You can put my bags onto the aircraft when i go on holiday in a few weeks time at least you don't have to speak fluent French

Your a communication paid troll (orange inside)

My dearest regards

Redwine

I hope when that day I mentioned in a previous post comes, as come it will, you will recall this conversation.

What a nasty foul human being you sound IMPO.

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HOLA4412

The answer is easy because its not true !

I live within a ten minute walk and then i am in Switzerland i don't know anybody that earns that much money and then turns it down

What a joke !

The poster in question is a paid machine that invents posts just to keep the forum running thats all!

Ahem.

I earn more than that, just about. For now. (this exchange rate issue may mean I'm out of a job soon or at the very least get a pay cut)

If you have a family or other dependants that you want to bring with you, then I'd say don't do it, or make sure you're a frontalier.

If it's just you, TMT, then you're an idiot, frankly, to hesitate for a second, unless you're very much a home bird or a surfer that can't stand to be away from the Gower.

On 120chf an hour you can double your quality of life from South Wales and save a shedload in GBP at the same time. I can tell you how to net about 70% of that pay legally and about 85% in a way that is low-risk illegal (the risk is in Switzerland not UK). If there's a chance your contract might be extended after a year, then bite their effing hand off FFS.

PM me if you want to know more, or post here if my PMs aren't working, I have a feeling they're not. If it's an agent you're dealing with, I can't help you there as you'll have to go through them.

It's true to say that your quality of life will be better if you speak some French, but it's not essential in the Geneva area, there are many that get along fine without in the international organisations.

Edit : Quality of life is of course subjective. If you have a large network of close friends and family in South Wales and/or already earn more than 500GBP a day in your existing contract plus it's secure long term, or you hate mountains, or you like rain, you find Swansea a stimulating environment, etc etc etc, then my POV may be way off.

Edited by swissy_fit
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HOLA4413

Ahem.

I earn more than that, just about. For now. (this exchange rate issue may mean I'm out of a job soon or at the very least get a pay cut)

If you have a family or other dependants that you want to bring with you, then I'd say don't do it, or make sure you're a frontalier.

If it's just you, TMT, then you're an idiot, frankly, to hesitate for a second, unless you're very much a home bird or a surfer that can't stand to be away from the Gower.

On 120chf an hour you can double your quality of life from South Wales and save a shedload in GBP at the same time. I can tell you how to net about 70% of that pay legally and about 85% in a way that is low-risk illegal (the risk is in Switzerland not UK). If there's a chance your contract might be extended after a year, then bite their effing hand off FFS.

PM me if you want to know more, or post here if my PMs aren't working, I have a feeling they're not. If it's an agent you're dealing with, I can't help you there as you'll have to go through them.

It's true to say that your quality of life will be better if you speak some French, but it's not essential in the Geneva area, there are many that get along fine without in the international organisations.

Edit : Quality of life is of course subjective. If you have a large network of close friends and family in South Wales and/or already earn more than 500GBP a day in your existing contract plus it's secure long term, or you hate mountains, or you like rain, you find Swansea a stimulating environment, etc etc etc, then my POV may be way off.

My French is non-existent and, yes, I do have a large network of friends in South Wales. I have turned down good rates in London in the past few months but obviously not as good as the Swiss rate... but then again, working in London would not mean such a big move as Switzerland.

At the end of the day, money is not the big motivator for myself in life. That may sond arrogant or stupid, or both,to some but I have my reasons why this is so.

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HOLA4414

My French is non-existent and, yes, I do have a large network of friends in South Wales. I have turned down good rates in London in the past few months but obviously not as good as the Swiss rate... but then again, working in London would not mean such a big move as Switzerland.

At the end of the day, money is not the big motivator for myself in life. That may sond arrogant or stupid, or both,to some but I have my reasons why this is so.

Sounds perfectly sensible to me.

I can't imagine loving South Wales(with the possible exception of Rhossili bay) as I find the climate appalling, the infrastructure inadequate, the food awful(doesn't seem to be a food tradition in Wales, people eat to fortify themselves afaics), the culture pretty rough, the only thing worth a damn to me there is the surfing and some of the walking.

However if I loved somewhere, especially if I lived amongst good and real close friends, I wouldn't leave it for money as long as I had enough.

That does beg the question though - why did you post if you knew the answer already?

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HOLA4415

Sounds perfectly sensible to me.

I can't imagine loving South Wales(with the possible exception of Rhossili bay) as I find the climate appalling, the infrastructure inadequate, the food awful(doesn't seem to be a food tradition in Wales, people eat to fortify themselves afaics), the culture pretty rough, the only thing worth a damn to me there is the surfing and some of the walking.

However if I loved somewhere, especially if I lived amongst good and real close friends, I wouldn't leave it for money as long as I had enough.

That does beg the question though - why did you post if you knew the answer already?

Maybe I needed to sound out others. In truth, I am unsure. The project is very interesting to me and, frankly, if it was somewhere else in the EU I would most likely jump at it. I had a similar offer a few weeks ago in a Middle Eastern country which was a no no for myself.

My plan is to use S'sea as my base whilst working overseas in the years to come. In time, I may decide to move completely to one of them. There are numerous locations that I have in mind but Switzerland has never been one of them. I know little about the place, about the lifestyle, cost of living, etc, etc.

But, as you now know, I have other things of importance to me - never ever underestimate your support network.

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HOLA4416

Maybe I needed to sound out others. In truth, I am unsure. The project is very interesting to me and, frankly, if it was somewhere else in the EU I would most likely jump at it. I had a similar offer a few weeks ago in a Middle Eastern country which was a no no for myself.

My plan is to use S'sea as my base whilst working overseas in the years to come. In time, I may decide to move completely to one of them. There are numerous locations that I have in mind but Switzerland has never been one of them. I know little about the place, about the lifestyle, cost of living, etc, etc.

But, as you now know, I have other things of importance to me - never ever underestimate your support network.

Absolutely...A lot of people on here seem to think that money is everything...you could be earning shed loads of dosh, but be completely unhappy. Its the quality of life of me, and the friends and family around you...Speaking to a schoolfriend last night about the working culture in London...You can be very well compensated, but regularly end up doing 12 hour days...I personally dont want to end up dead at 55..

However, if the contract is for 12 months only, I may consider to take the risk...

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HOLA4417

Maybe I needed to sound out others. In truth, I am unsure. The project is very interesting to me and, frankly, if it was somewhere else in the EU I would most likely jump at it. I had a similar offer a few weeks ago in a Middle Eastern country which was a no no for myself.

My plan is to use S'sea as my base whilst working overseas in the years to come. In time, I may decide to move completely to one of them. There are numerous locations that I have in mind but Switzerland has never been one of them. I know little about the place, about the lifestyle, cost of living, etc, etc.

But, as you now know, I have other things of importance to me - never ever underestimate your support network.

OK, well the plan is IMO a bit incoherent, working overseas is not compatible with remaining amongst your support network in Swansea so you will have to choose.

Like you, I have lived and worked all over. This place is overall the best of the bunch, depending on taste of course. I think you've created a completely false image in your mind from working in (I guess) Zurich with some stiff Swiss-German bankers and from some of the utter ****** that has been posted on this thread.

If you judge yourself as being incapable or unwilling to learn good French then your decision is probably right, francophones mainly like to converse in their own language outside of work. Most people wanting to stay take lessons.

Cost of living is not an issue for a single man earning that much - my costs were about 3500-4500 chf a month, living fairly well when I was single, as you'd take home about 13000-14000chf per month on that pay(done correctly) you can see you'd be doing alright even if you had huas and coke 3 times a week!

.

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HOLA4418

OK, well the plan is IMO a bit incoherent, working overseas is not compatible with remaining amongst your support network in Swansea so you will have to choose.

Like you, I have lived and worked all over. This place is overall the best of the bunch, depending on taste of course. I think you've created a completely false image in your mind from working in (I guess) Zurich with some stiff Swiss-German bankers and from some of the utter ****** that has been posted on this thread.

If you judge yourself as being incapable or unwilling to learn good French then your decision is probably right, francophones mainly like to converse in their own language outside of work. Most people wanting to stay take lessons.

Cost of living is not an issue for a single man earning that much - my costs were about 3500-4500 chf a month, living fairly well when I was single, as you'd take home about 13000-14000chf per month on that pay(done correctly) you can see you'd be doing alright even if you had huas and coke 3 times a week!

.

Yes, my foreign languages are appalling.

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HOLA4419

http://www.travailler-en-suisse.ch/estimer-son-salaire-en-suisse.html

Work in Switzerland estimate your wages in Switzerland

This site was last updated on the 12/7/11

Just for you Swissy-fit have a look at the average or median wages in the banking sector in Switzerland!

You will be surprised by just how low wages are there but high by UK standards

I have just been to Geneva to pick up my wife from work

We are an Anglo -French couple on a double income

BTW i don't believe that you are earning the wages that you state working in IT

If you have a real trade like UGV precision engineering just like TGV meaning high speed trains

In my case its high-speed engineering then i can well understand your high claims for your pay

Of course you don't do you just like the other the poster with his dead links to greedy IT operators who want to make some quick cash

Even though they hate paying taxes or just about anything for that matter!

Bye bye

Au revoir

Liar fit

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HOLA4420

http://www.travailler-en-suisse.ch/estimer-son-salaire-en-suisse.html

Work in Switzerland estimate your wages in Switzerland

This site was last updated on the 12/7/11

Just for you Swissy-fit have a look at the average or median wages in the banking sector in Switzerland!

You will be surprised by just how low wages are there but high by UK standards

I have just been to Geneva to pick up my wife from work

We are an Anglo -French couple on a double income

BTW i don't believe that you are earning the wages that you state working in IT

If you have a real trade like UGV precision engineering just like TGV meaning high speed trains

In my case its high-speed engineering then i can well understand your high claims for your pay

Of course you don't do you just like the other the poster with his dead links to greedy IT operators who want to make some quick cash

Even though they hate paying taxes or just about anything for that matter!

Bye bye

Au revoir

Liar fit

Try not to be an idiot. Not liking it won't make it untrue. Nor did I say it was the correct state of affairs, I'd agree that engineers are worth more, but life isn't like that, do you think the banksters are really worth their bonuses?

Experienced IT contractors earn between 1000 and 1800CHF a day in Geneva, depending on how much their skill is sought after.

When I arrived, that wasn't such an extreme amount in GBP terms. Permanent staff where I work earn about 130k CHF a year, a bit more than half of what contractors earn when you consider holidays.

If you don't believe me, phone an established agency like MBA and pretend to be an SAP contractor with solid experience, ask how much they can get you.

The strong Swiss franc is threatening this situation, I'd say it won't be long before pay starts dropping for the less sought-after skills.

Edit :

Oh, and I'll probably be out of a job at the end of the year, which I'm sure will make you feel better!

Edited by swissy_fit
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HOLA4421

I have been told that even still having a UK mobile phone number or contract, or paying the BBC licence fee or having any bill or direct debit in the UK is enough for the HMRC to bill you full whack.

Bloody hope not.-- I have all those things.

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HOLA4422

To coin a phrase, "fixed that for ya" :P

Geneva is notorious for many of those things mentioned in that thread. Never been there myself. Where is your possible job based?

Don't just look for evidence to support your doubts. The English FOrum is also full of expats purring with pleasure. Depends more on you than on the country.

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HOLA4423

To coin a phrase, "fixed that for ya" :P

Geneva is notorious for many of those things mentioned in that thread. Never been there myself. Where is your possible job based?

Don't just look for evidence to support your doubts. The English FOrum is also full of expats purring with pleasure. Depends more on you than on the country.

They mentioned Zurich and Geneva with some work across the border in Germany. I am vague because they have been vague. New unit, new set-up, the usual headless IT chicken stuff.

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HOLA4424

They mentioned Zurich and Geneva with some work across the border in Germany. I am vague because they have been vague. New unit, new set-up, the usual headless IT chicken stuff.

People who feel they must live in central Geneva howl like hell about the shortage of accommodation. Most people with any sense live outside the cities and travel in on fast/frequent public transport. Zurich workers tend to live in the towns along the shores of the lake -- most within 20 mins of Zurich by train.

The decision is yours, but for me it would be a no-brainer. It's not like you're being asked to go to Bangladesh for a year. More than 20% of the Swiss population are ex-pats so it works for plenty of people -- and very few earn what you are being offered. I would make the move whatever the money as it's such a pleasant living environment. So it all comes down to your personal needs. Why not book a few days off work and spend some time here? See for yourself. Not much more I can add.

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HOLA4425

People who feel they must live in central Geneva howl like hell about the shortage of accommodation. Most people with any sense live outside the cities and travel in on fast/frequent public transport. Zurich workers tend to live in the towns along the shores of the lake -- most within 20 mins of Zurich by train.

The decision is yours, but for me it would be a no-brainer. It's not like you're being asked to go to Bangladesh for a year. More than 20% of the Swiss population are ex-pats so it works for plenty of people -- and very few earn what you are being offered. I would make the move whatever the money as it's such a pleasant living environment. So it all comes down to your personal needs. Why not book a few days off work and spend some time here? See for yourself. Not much more I can add.

Have had a call this morning that it will be Zurich and not Geneva - if that is any difference?

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