Australia - Maybe China Cost Of Living

[Timak]

I'm in the "way more expensive for groceries in Oz" camp.

Meat and soft drinks aside I found it to be vastly more expensive than the UK.

I appreciate however that shipping a bag of lettuce from Holland to the UK and into Tesco is a lot easier than getting a fresh bag from Adelaide to Albany for example.

[Guest]

I first moved from UK to Australia in 1997, initially living in Brisbane and then to Sydney, and it was much much cheaper than living in the UK. I saw the prices rise and rise, by 2004 I decided to go all itinerant and spent 3 years bouncing around the globe including spending chunks of time in the UK.

I moved back to Aus in 2007 when I was starting my family and we just couldn't make any headway on our savings, everything that came in went straight back out again and a bit more, leaving with us a negative savings rate. As a long term renter this is a path to a very unhappy later life stage (which I'm many years away from, but you've got to save, always, to plan for your future non-working years). We cut back in all the ways we could, short of walking 10-20km to work, eating kangaroo as a staple and/or going freegarian, but even with our cut backs we still had a teeny tiny savings rate at best.

So we moved back to the UK, and the difference is astronomical, I've got a >10% savings rate, we eat well, live in a nice detatched rented house less than 1 hour commute to London (my commute in Sydney was similar). Sure I miss the beach and the weather sucks, but at least I'm pushing forward in my life.

I've lived in quite a few places, and in my opinion Aus it the most expensive by a country mile.

oz

Edited March 8, 2011 by Guest

[Panda]

I've lived in quite a few places, and in my opinion Aus it the most expensive by a country mile.

oz

I have to agree, i have been there four times in five years, the most recent, the most horrific cost wise mainly due to the exchange rate. But even so, my local Ozzy friends, earning around $800.00 aweek take home, thats about $52k a year, well times are tough, very tough. Some are lucky, maybe up to $60k per year, but still only $900.00 per week. With the rent at $300.00 aweek plus, you can see, there ain't alot left...

P.

[aussieboy]

you can compare the costs between London, United Kingdom and Sydney, Australia here:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=Australia&city2=Sydney&displayCurrency=GBP

Indexes Difference

Consumer Prices in Sydney are 7.64% higher than in London

Consumer Prices Including Rent in Sydney are 2.81% higher than in London

Rent Prices in Sydney are 7.83% lower than in London

Restaurant Prices in Sydney are 10.17% lower than in London

Groceries Prices in Sydney are 35.46% higher than in London

Local Purchasing Power in Sydney is 19.31% higher than in London

but check the link for more

This fits with my subjective experience... it's mostly due to the mad Aussie Dollar. If it were back at 2 / 2.2, this place would be reasonable again.

But at $2.50 for a Mars bar from a vending machine, it's mad.

[Guest The Relaxation Suite]

I agree with the point above about China. At 25% of exports Australia is way too dependent on China. If China keeps booming, then Australia will continue to get more expensive, if China levels off or collapses, then it will get seriously cheaper housing stock.

To illustrate how pointless internet posts on affordability truly are - my wife and I find that we are able to save twice as much in Australia as we were in the UK, and we have a much nicer house and greater lifestyle all round. We go swimming most nights in the ocean, eat great quality meat and fish from local independent butchers and fishmongers, drive to endless numbers of parks and gardens for picnics in great weather on empty roads. I mean contrast this to the post by ozbear and you see my point.

[aussieboy]

Massive lack of competition in supermarkets in Australia +1 - and in other sectors too. Look at the giant song and dance production the retail cartel made when they tried to get the government to tax online purchases under $1000.Rather than get competitive their first thought was to get central government to tax the overseas competition. Aldi in certain states might help the Colesworths Cartel bring down prices too.

Could get into home brewery micro brewery as well - but trying to watch my gut at the moment, sadly and beer is the worst thing for me on that score.

Buddy of mine works in the Colesworth head office in M&A. He moved here from London and can't believe how pricey the food is... but he spends a lot of time looking at the margins of supermarkets around the world and they are largely similar.

So God knows where the money goes.

[steve99]

I agree - they don't seem to know how to respond other than go straight to central government and start whining about tax. I buy a lot of books (I literally could not afford to read in Australia if it were not for the internet) and I buy them all online at Amazon. They are sometimes a third of the price, and deliver for free if a certain amount are ordered. They arrive usually in less than 10 days and only twice in many years has stuff had to be sent back because of damage.

The only books I buy in Australia are the $10 Penguin Classics - though I notice they have shuffled up to $11 in the last few months - a nice 10% increase. One book on philosophy I wanted was $50 in Australia but £11 at Amazon.co.uk. With those kind of differences there is no debate about where I shop for books.

Australia has always been a 'crony capitalist' type of country, Big business has always had the ear of government and smaller businesses have the ear of local council who have tended to indulge in what we would call 'restrictive trade practices' etc. ie I wanted to start a business once in a coastal town in QLD but the local council stopped me on account of 'it would upset other businesses' ie the ones they and their scumbag bum chums owned. Hasnt changed much. Aus has had massive imigration in the last decade, in order to feed the suburban sprawl building machine (another massive VI on the 'A' list ) on account of 'thats all we know' . This is how bog standard building tradesmen can earn doctors wages.

Having been in Oz for over four years, I have seen the swing on living expenses so that now the UK is cheaper for clothes and books. Exchange rate is behind a lot of that.

However - some things are still very cheap:

entertainment: AFL game $19 cheap seats; cinema $10, concerts/gigs - varies, but I've seen some great bands for $50-$100 a pop

public transport: all day tram around Melbourne: $7, coach to airport $15 (same distance as heathrow)

coffee: $3 a pop

restaurent food: meal for two (sans wine) $20. wine (cleanskin) $10 for a random quality bottle, which could be excellent

however, the main value add for me comparing UK and Oz right now is that you can control your outgoings massively. the sheer volume of mini taxes you get in the UK just isn't visible here (putting health insurance aside, which even then you can choose the level you want). free festivals are all over the place, at least in the cities. Getting to/from beaches and nature parks is easy, and once there carparks tend to be free.

I earn the same here as I did in the UK. I can save $3000 per month more. if my partner and I want a cheap weekend, we can spend all day at the beach spending nowt.

Books were always 2x the price of UK, its only recently that the majority population found out. Clothing has always been more expensive, and half the quality. My wife says Primark quality with Harrods prices. As for going out, well the beaches have been good for about 4 days this summer in Melbourne if you are restricted to weekends and as you know rain is the overiding theme this year, which in fact brings it a bit closer to the normal Melbourne climate that has been absent for the last decade or so. We found far more to do for free in the UK than around Melbourne, for eg 1000's of miles of walking tracks in the UK but unless you like drive a long way first there are just a few limited paths for walking and riding around the suburbs. Energy is cheaper in Aus but you can get caught out with crappy housing and inefficient heating/cooling, cheaply built houses that leack megawatts through the massive (read cheaper than bricks) windows dont help and just a single layer of brick with plasterboard. Dont know where you found $10 cinema, most are around $18. We have been looking for a flat to rent but agents wont show us any, saying we must come and compete with everyone else at the weekend 'showings' then put in an offer above asking price. going to stick to the caravan till we do though which is cheaper right now. And as for buying, forget it, the market has gone way beyond what the UK housing bubble did, not only that every single layer of society is treating house prices as a cult form of religion, worse of course, our money is still in the UK rotting away at 2.5% and worth nothing in Australia.

I agree with the point above about China. At 25% of exports Australia is way too dependent on China. If China keeps booming, then Australia will continue to get more expensive, if China levels off or collapses, then it will get seriously cheaper housing stock.

To illustrate how pointless internet posts on affordability truly are - my wife and I find that we are able to save twice as much in Australia as we were in the UK, and we have a much nicer house and greater lifestyle all round. We go swimming most nights in the ocean, eat great quality meat and fish from local independent butchers and fishmongers, drive to endless numbers of parks and gardens for picnics in great weather on empty roads. I mean contrast this to the post by ozbear and you see my point.

Where is this?? Swimming most nights? this summer in Melbourne was worse than a bad summer in London, good quality meats and fish? (if you catch it yourself maybe) empty roads? It takes us a full hour of 3 lane busy traffic to get out of Melbourne then 3 hours drive to anywhere interesting (after youve done the repetitive local stuff 25 times) Sounds like a differnet planet to me.

[wherebee]

Where is this?? Swimming most nights? this summer in Melbourne was worse than a bad summer in London, good quality meats and fish? (if you catch it yourself maybe) empty roads? It takes us a full hour of 3 lane busy traffic to get out of Melbourne then 3 hours drive to anywhere interesting (after youve done the repetitive local stuff 25 times) Sounds like a differnet planet to me.

thing is, you cant compare australia to....australia. it's so massive, that it's like comparing london to vienna and expecting a common view. even in melbourne, which i know well, moving 5km can drop rent 25% for identical properties....

that said, if you are spending an hour in a car getting out of melbourne, and then 3 hours to see anything, you are going the wrong way!

Edited March 11, 2011 by wherebee