dogbox Posted July 18, 2006 Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 Cheers for your informative post Soupie. I know what you mean about the bland surrounding land. Having said that I find the interior of North Cornwall bland, but the coast more than makes up for it. Also destinations such as Lanzarote have seriously bland landscapes. Out of interest, where you the chap that started the Estonia thread? If so what makes you switch to Morocco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Soup Dragon Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 DogBox:- Yeh, blandness hasn't held Lanzarote and other similar resorts back. Only a small negative when site will have everything most holiday makers want. I am interested in Estonia. Was originally looking to use my investment budget in 3 countries to spread the risk. Low risk would have been South of France, medium risk Estonia and medium to high risk Morocco. I'm comfortable enough with risk in Morocco and have decided to have large property in Morocco rather than small ones (one in France, one in Morocco.) Only question is if I should stretch myself and continue with investment in Estonia. I've been in touch with Andy over last few weeks and hadn't mentioned which user I was on forum. Just had call to say I've been rumbled! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASMAN Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Any body thinking of buying off plan from dreamworld.com??? they are offering 2 bed, 2 bathroom apartments from 86k in a development called tanjah? Any advice as Im thinking of buying here as only 25% required and over 3 years to pay it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Soup Dragon Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Gazman: I was in Morocco a fortnight ago but unable to visit site as there was nobody over there yet to view. The way I see it is that area Tanjah is located already has good transport links and it is likely that the new Tangier airport will take budget flights in the future. This part of the Atlantic coast will have a number of developments being built over the coming years. The beaches are good and the Atlantic wasn't a problem. I like the look of Tanjah compared to PBGR. One thing I will add is not to believe some of the documentation you may see about Tanjah. I've seen some where they tell you it is next to the Princes's palace (he has dozens) and that plane's can not fly it. According to others I have met this is simply not true. The airport is nearby, so this could be a concern for you. Does look like it'll be a good resort though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Soup Dragon Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 Gazman: When I responded last time I didn't think to add any obvious comments such as doing your due diligence checks. There have been one or two developments near Tanjah where monies have been taken before necessary permissions were in place. I think Royal Asilah is one and I'm conerned PBGR and possibly Tanjah may become another. I recently spoke to someone that is more knowledgeable on Moroccan developments than I. If I remember correctly he said that he had looked in to Tanjah and that some of the same people behind PBGR were behind this. Do do your due diligence checks and if you find you become uncomfortable with risk involved going with Tanjah then you may wish to consider a new development to East of Tangier that Fadesa have released recently. (Near Smir development .) Given Fadesa are 2nd biggest builders in Spain you will be reducing the risk that developer goes bust before your property is complete. Additionally, Fadesa are not taking 1st 20% installment till all permisions are in place. If what I've heard is correct then you simply pay a fully refundable deposit (probably about £2k) that will entitle you to one of the 1st picks of apartments at todays prices. Prices will almost certainly rise once all permissions are in place. It strikes me as a low risk option when compared to one or two others in Tangier region. You have probably heard of what has happened with Royal Asilah and PBGR, but just in case: Royal Asilah took monies before permissions were in place. They did not get planning permission for number of floors they wanted to build. Every block had to be reduced by one floor and those that had reserved penthouses lost out. I don't know details of how developers resolved matters with those that were buying penthouses. I believe one option they provided was to use monies they had paid to date towards purchasing a property at PBGR. PBGR had advertised an all inlcusive price. Literature, and possibly contracts, indicated that there was no VAT payable by the buyer. A few weeks ago the developers realised that they, the developers, had to pay the VAT on new build property. They then decided that all buyers would need to pay a proportion of the VAT due (think it was half.) If your heart is still set on Tanjah after all your due diligence checks then you may be able to agree that solicitors hold onto funds until they have sight of all permissions. I don't know if you will be able to get this into your contract, but if you do succeed it'll give you extra peace of mind. Finally, information above may not be 100% accurate. Hopefuly others will be closer to the goings on in these developments and point out any inaccuracies. Good luck with your house hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASMAN Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 Thanks for the advice... To be honest I think Tanjah is a resonable safe bet.... You only need pay 25% deposit over the three years. This can be divided into monthly payments, so 36 payments. Very small amounts of money compared to paying the deposit in one lump. Also I believe you can pay via a bond. This means your money never leaves the UK until completion. Basically the bond acts as your contract for the 25%. This enables the developer to borrow money secure in the knowledge that on completion they have your deposit guaranteed. Seems one of the safest options I've seen to date? Anyone else considering Tanjah??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 Thanks for the advice... To be honest I think Tanjah is a resonable safe bet.... You only need pay 25% deposit over the three years. This can be divided into monthly payments, so 36 payments. Very small amounts of money compared to paying the deposit in one lump. Also I believe you can pay via a bond. This means your money never leaves the UK until completion. Basically the bond acts as your contract for the 25%. This enables the developer to borrow money secure in the knowledge that on completion they have your deposit guaranteed. Seems one of the safest options I've seen to date? Anyone else considering Tanjah??? Im an investor. I initially liked the look of Tanjah but the exit route became an area of concern. I like to be able to sell when I see fit, however it became apparent this was not possible until the 25% had been paid in full. I wasnt comfortable with this. Also Im bnot sure the developer had Bank guarantees. Like Soup Dragon I suggest you also consider the new Fadesa development near Tangier, as there is an immense amount of investor security afforded by dealing with such a large organisation. When it comes to resale during the pre completion phase this will make a sale easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigLog Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Im an investor. I initially liked the look of Tanjah but the exit route became an area of concern. I like to be able to sell when I see fit, however it became apparent this was not possible until the 25% had been paid in full. I wasnt comfortable with this. Also Im bnot sure the developer had Bank guarantees. Like Soup Dragon I suggest you also consider the new Fadesa development near Tangier, as there is an immense amount of investor security afforded by dealing with such a large organisation. When it comes to resale during the pre completion phase this will make a sale easier. Flipping properties in 3rd world countries ?? Call that investment ? Shame on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefluk Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Im an investor. I initially liked the look of Tanjah but the exit route became an area of concern. I like to be able to sell when I see fit, however it became apparent this was not possible until the 25% had been paid in full. I wasnt comfortable with this. Also Im bnot sure the developer had Bank guarantees. Like Soup Dragon I suggest you also consider the new Fadesa development near Tangier, as there is an immense amount of investor security afforded by dealing with such a large organisation. When it comes to resale during the pre completion phase this will make a sale easier. I note that you started this thread full of enthusiasm for this development. Are you now going cold on the area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 I note that you started this thread full of enthusiasm for this development. Are you now going cold on the area We must have crossed wires. I am still proceeding with my investment into Saidia Morocco. The 'Tanjah' development is a completely separate small one - off. Saidia remains the best investment in Morocco given its status and market position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 Flipping properties in 3rd world countries ?? Call that investment ? Shame on you. I suppose real investment would be manufacturing mobile phones? Sell over priced gizmos with glitzy marketing aimed at vulnerable teenagers (and kids), convince them they cant live without them and then motivate them to upgrade regularly, afterall my life was such a misery before mobiles came along Add the 8 year old orphans forced to mine metals 12 hrs per day in Angola (but 1 example) that make these oh so prescious phones. How about car manufacturing, is that a worthy investment? Cause people to get into debt, devalue every day, pollute the atmoshpere, add to the bling bling culture, use up precious finite resources. Clothes? Again the marketing machinery poisons the mind of people who cant afford a complete new wardrobe every season. Use virtual slave labour to make all the shite. Fly it round the world and pollute in the process. How about Soya production? An area 6 x the size of Wales destroyed every year in the Amazon alone just so as greedy Humans have Soya to feed battery chickens. What is your ultra - ethical Moroccan business venture by the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigLog Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I suppose real investment would be manufacturing mobile phones? Sell over priced gizmos with glitzy marketing aimed at vulnerable teenagers (and kids), convince them they cant live without them and then motivate them to upgrade regularly, afterall my life was such a misery before mobiles came along Add the 8 year old orphans forced to mine metals 12 hrs per day in Angola (but 1 example) that make these oh so prescious phones. How about car manufacturing, is that a worthy investment? Cause people to get into debt, devalue every day, pollute the atmoshpere, add to the bling bling culture, use up precious finite resources. Clothes? Again the marketing machinery poisons the mind of people who cant afford a complete new wardrobe every season. Use virtual slave labour to make all the shite. Fly it round the world and pollute in the process. How about Soya production? An area 6 x the size of Wales destroyed every year in the Amazon alone just so as greedy Humans have Soya to feed battery chickens. What is your ultra - ethical Moroccan business venture by the way? I can/could've bought many properties that you are eyeing in Saidia, putting deposits on several holdings, and ramping them in order to sell onto the next mug. But that's not my scene. Funnily I've never analysed myself regarding my own business but now you mention it, yes you are right, it's a very ethical business I'm running - in Manufacturing. But coming back to you and your examples above, your own idea of investment in Morocco isn't exactly lacking in bling bling, nor in exploitation either; 60 designer label shops (selling what we need ?), marina (for luxury boats that are needed are they ?), or playing on 3golf courses (more bling?) etc etc etc. I think even you are beginning to wear thin of your own hype. You started this thread being very cagey about your intent in Saidia and slowly but eventually you've let the cat out of the bag about your real intentions over there (a place you have never set foot in - hyping a game you admit you don't play either (golf) !!!!!). Ever been on a boat ?? I look forward to seeing your face when you can't sell on your investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 I can/could've bought many properties that you are eyeing in Saidia, putting deposits on several holdings, and ramping them in order to sell onto the next mug. But that's not my scene. Funnily I've never analysed myself regarding my own business but now you mention it, yes you are right, it's a very ethical business I'm running - in Manufacturing. But coming back to you and your examples above, your own idea of investment in Morocco isn't exactly lacking in bling bling, nor in exploitation either; 60 designer label shops (selling what we need ?), marina (for luxury boats that are needed are they ?), or playing on 3golf courses (more bling?) etc etc etc. I think even you are beginning to wear thin of your own hype. You started this thread being very cagey about your intent in Saidia and slowly but eventually you've let the cat out of the bag about your real intentions over there (a place you have never set foot in - hyping a game you admit you don't play either (golf) !!!!!). Ever been on a boat ?? I look forward to seeing your face when you can't sell on your investment. Flipping is an option that of late has become an attractive option. Not something Im definite on though. Its nice to have more than one exit route. I may just hold. You state youve never analyised your own business. This conflicts with previous posts where you sought to impress stating how many 'grateful' morocans you employed, and how succesful you are. I never said Saidia wasnt bling bling. I think it will be although it wont have the high rise chintz of Dubai. So what if I dont play golf, that doesnt mean I cant recognise the demand 3 courses will draw. Anyway, I note your'e very coy about your own business field I dont take the moral high ground in terms of ethical added value. I do however object a little to those that claim it espcially as most dont deserve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASMAN Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Biglog? Whats youjr problem with property investment?? And why be on a property forum in the overseas section if you have no interest? Surely you could use your time more productivly? Dogbox, you are right on having to complete the 25% before you can sell. Seems straight forward to me. The benefit is you don't need to use all your capital until its needed for the 25%. Meaning you can gain interest on the 25% deposit in your account rather than the developers. Have you found any better developments/payment plans better in the North of Morroco? Please share if so, any web links??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted August 1, 2006 Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 (edited) Biglog? Whats youjr problem with property investment?? And why be on a property forum in the overseas section if you have no interest? Surely you could use your time more productivly? Dogbox, you are right on having to complete the 25% before you can sell. Seems straight forward to me. The benefit is you don't need to use all your capital until its needed for the 25%. Meaning you can gain interest on the 25% deposit in your account rather than the developers. Have you found any better developments/payment plans better in the North of Morroco? Please share if so, any web links??? I heard that TASSA (a Spannish developer) have a decent payment plan on thier Sadia appartments which are located just behind the beach front hotels. A very large swimming lake is being built which the appartments will surround. The prices from memory started at about £60000. PM me and I will pass your details onto the developers agent. Tanjah does seem an attractive prospect especially if it has a good developer behind it. ******************NEWS - Ive been asked to do an article for the Telegraph on Saidia. The journo indicated it will be published in the next few days. Never done anything like this before. Hopefuly she will not miss - quote me! Well cheasey pre - tan beach photo. Edited August 1, 2006 by dogbox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigLog Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Biglog? Whats youjr problem with property investment?? And why be on a property forum in the overseas section if you have no interest? Surely you could use your time more productivly? Dogbox, you are right on having to complete the 25% before you can sell. Seems straight forward to me. The benefit is you don't need to use all your capital until its needed for the 25%. Meaning you can gain interest on the 25% deposit in your account rather than the developers. Have you found any better developments/payment plans better in the North of Morroco? Please share if so, any web links??? Why don't people on this forum talk properly ? I don't have a problem with property investment - where did I say that ? I know lots of property developers. They buy land, create work/jobs, sell the property to people who need it and move on. I also know lots of people, buying land, building there homes and living in them. I have a *BIG* problem with UK property 'investment' abroad - which is NOTHING more than bloating/creating a problem in someone else's back garden, for the sake of their own greed. What Dogbox intends to do, as he as already mentioned elsewhere that Morocco isn't really his bag, is to hype up his plot and flog it on to the next mug, before he has to pay further installments on his 'investment' (probably doesn't have the entire funds hence why he is so keen on 'exit routes'). That, is not Property Development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigLog Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Flipping is an option that of late has become an attractive option. Not something Im definite on though. Its nice to have more than one exit route. I may just hold. You state youve never analyised your own business. This conflicts with previous posts where you sought to impress stating how many 'grateful' morocans you employed, and how succesful you are. I never said Saidia wasnt bling bling. I think it will be although it wont have the high rise chintz of Dubai. So what if I dont play golf, that doesnt mean I cant recognise the demand 3 courses will draw. Anyway, I note your'e very coy about your own business field I dont take the moral high ground in terms of ethical added value. I do however object a little to those that claim it espcially as most dont deserve it. I'll explain again shall I. I stated that I don't go around analyising myself, but that now you mention it and now that I have, I notice that maybe I'm just too ethical/unselfish. I've analysed myself and yes, maybe I care more than the average Joe Bloggs about what I'm doing and how it affects and impacts others. So, yes, I'm not just here to make a quick buck. What you are doing is selfish, made even more selfish by the fact that a) you have never even been here, and you admit that it isn't really your type of place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Soup Dragon Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 BogLog: I don't think DogBox is looking to sell up before he completes. He is ofcourse keen to keep his options open and know that an exit route exists should he change his mind and wish to switch his interests elsewhere. This is something that most of us think about when considering opportunities abroad. The Moroccan Government have opened the floodgates to foreign investment of this sort. They have decided this is the way forward for the Moroccan economy. As long as it makes financial sence to invest abroad then people like DogBox will consider it. You can point to cost of these properties and compare them to the average salary in Morocco. I can see that it will price this type of accomodation well outwith the means of most Moroccans, but ultimately the Government is increasing an industry which should improve the Moroccan economy in the medium to long term. If people like DogBox didn't take an interest then the King's plans would not succeed. As I think FWS or another member said on an earlier post, capitalism never was pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASMAN Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Totally agree Soup Dragon. Investments work for both parties. Investers will only buy property if they believe it to be a good financial investment, whether it be long term rental yeild, or short term growth. Either way works for the King as it helps put money into the country as he tries to raise his economies financially. The country will be improved, new roads and trains creating better networking, companies will move into the country to operate whether its corporate or tourism, jobs will be created. Taxes will be paid back into the country helping it grow. Need I go on.....??? Im honest about what I do... Im not in it for anyone but myself and my future family. I'm buying property as an investment as I think Morroco will grow slowely and provide a better investment than here in the UK. I will keep my properties whilst acheiving my projected rental yeilds until I see fit to change my mind. As for now I'm investing in Morroco and I have no problem with others that do the same. I think somewhere along the line you have got personal 'Big Log'? If you think the big developers are there for the good of you and not for profit then I believe you're very mistaken.... Having said that I think everyone is a winner right now. Farmers are selling fields off for 10 or even 20 times what they were worth only 6 years ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted August 1, 2006 Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 I am currently looking for a working business partner. $300,000 for 50% share, 10year business plan, been here 4 years already, sales growing nicely, profits circa $2.25m within 7-10 years, local market and exports. Interested ?? Real business (i.e. factory, machines, workers, sales team etc), real product (physical), real customers (anyone with a roof over their head will have what I produce and need what I've got) Real future. No hype. My company is already the biggest No.1 and only importer of said product. I've created the market, we're No.1 out here. Heck I've even been on the National TV, press and now I'm going to produce local and eventually export all over Africa. It took 3 years of being here to sniff. That's why I keep asking you do you really know what you are doing ? I don't think you can see it because you've never even been here. Mind you though, if you were interested in my real business, and I mean really interested, you'd have to get behind the 18th or so other really interested serious people who are already willing to chuck their money my way. Regards. Mate, Ive just re - read all your posts including the above. I like the 'you'd have to get behind the 18th or so other really interested serious people who are already willing to chuck thier money my way'!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish you well, and recognise you would like me to fail and consider me a vampire. Let me say I do not seek to build modest wealth for its own sake, but simply so I can be free to do exactly what I want with my life as Im very aware the average person lives about 29000 days and c9500 of those are spent asleep. It pains me that I cant spent a lot more time with my kids (even though I see more of them than most Dads I know). I built a business which took years to get where I am, and now I seek methods of wealth building that take as little time as possible. Your opinion is that I am mad to invest in Morocco. I think youve got it wrong and you will see that Saidia will soon become a world class prominent destination. BTW - are you Jarvis Cocker? (he doesnt like to swim in the sea either) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Soup Dragon Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 (edited) GASMAN. Sounds like our reasons for investing abroad are similar. We think we can get better return from housing abroad than back here. Free income also higher now than it is likely to be with family. Site beneath might be of interest to you. It has more on problems with Royal Asilah and PBGR (which may also apply to Tanjah if indeed people behind it are the same.) Might be worth speaking to some agents that are active in Morocco but aren't selling Tanjah, Royal Asilah or PBGR. They will probably be able to give you more accurate information than myself or most of the posters found in forums. With no vested interest in these developments they will be frank with you about them. Link beneath also has breaking news on rental with Tanjah. I don't have a good vibe about Tanjah, but won't mention that again unless prompted (I know I must sound like abroken record.) http://www.buyingmoroccanproperty.com/foru...18bf8e3006c3796 Just got my contract through for LJDF - looks like I've got almost all the clauses included that I wanted. Its quite some time since I reserved, but looks like I'm finally ready to sign. Edited August 1, 2006 by The Soup Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigLog Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Mate, Ive just re - read all your posts including the above. I like the 'you'd have to get behind the 18th or so other really interested serious people who are already willing to chuck thier money my way'!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish you well, and recognise you would like me to fail and consider me a vampire. Let me say I do not seek to build modest wealth for its own sake, but simply so I can be free to do exactly what I want with my life as Im very aware the average person lives about 29000 days and c9500 of those are spent asleep. It pains me that I cant spent a lot more time with my kids (even though I see more of them than most Dads I know). I built a business which took years to get where I am, and now I seek methods of wealth building that take as little time as possible. Your opinion is that I am mad to invest in Morocco. I think youve got it wrong and you will see that Saidia will soon become a world class prominent destination. BTW - are you Jarvis Cocker? (he doesnt like to swim in the sea either) I don' t consider you mad Dogbox, I welcome you with open arms. I'm saying don't flip. come here because you want to live here, not because you want to make a fast buck in property speculation. I don't think I can be any clearer than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lina Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I have recently reserved an apartment at LJDF.I understand there is no bank gaurantee and i have read on other forums that property logic are very strong and have not had to borrow money in order to finance the project. i also understand that they have been given another 5-10 projects on saidia. what worries me is that they will be working on most projects simultaniously. where will the money come from for the further projects. are they spreading themselves a bit thin. if they are then there is a possibility they could go bust and we could all lose our money. i may be a bit paranoid but this is my 1st investment abroad and i cannot afford to lose 40%.Also if tanja have already agreed a 10% rental on the site and they are at the same stage as ljdf ie none have started construction then why has nothing been agreed on for ljdf especially as it is a more upscale project. any views would be greatfully recieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 I have recently reserved an apartment at LJDF.I understand there is no bank gaurantee and i have read on other forums that property logic are very strong and have not had to borrow money in order to finance the project. i also understand that they have been given another 5-10 projects on saidia. what worries me is that they will be working on most projects simultaniously. where will the money come from for the further projects. are they spreading themselves a bit thin. if they are then there is a possibility they could go bust and we could all lose our money. i may be a bit paranoid but this is my 1st investment abroad and i cannot afford to lose 40%.Also if tanja have already agreed a 10% rental on the site and they are at the same stage as ljdf ie none have started construction then why has nothing been agreed on for ljdf especially as it is a more upscale project. any views would be greatfully recieved. 10% RENTAL GUARANTEE - alarm bells! I belong to an online foreign property investment letter and one of the most common areas of complaint surrounds rental guarantees. Any developer offering 10% is either mad, thick or a crook. Imagine you were a developer - how on Earth would you arrive at a figure of 10%, especially in an untested new market? Possibly the property is priced such that the developer is able to give back the excess to the buyers and label it a rent guarantee. If you take 'Fadesa's' (second largest Spanish developer) rental guarantees on thier Saidia properties you will see they are set at about 2 - 3%. They are a reputable developer who cant afford to make mistakes so I suggest 2 - 3% is an honest realistic guarantee and anyone offering more should be viewed with great suspiscion. As for LJDF Bank guarantees I raised this with them a long time ago and got nowhere. The more of us raise it the better. They say this of late '90% of stock is reserved so we dont see the problem'. They also say BGs arent applicable in Morocco but this to my mind is not the issue. Other developers offer to assign land deeds upon payment of 40% such that where a developer goes bust at least the buyer ownes the land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrickingIt Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 (edited) Playa Vistas a total mess. Avoid, Avoid, Avoid. Had an email re Saidia offering me free this and that if i reserved at some stupid low price. Edited August 4, 2006 by BrickingIt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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