Edinbugh Latest

[geneer]

So, between april and may edinburgh house prices have increased 18% have they?

Any one else think that skew and low volumes is having a significant effect here?

Looking forward to the ROS breakdowns for Q3. Should be some interesting info.

Edited June 29, 2009 by geneer

[geneer]

That said, in the context of the wider picture, the figures aren't particularly worrying.

Still 49K down from peak.

April's 12+ boom followed a similar skew induced plummet in march.

Edited June 29, 2009 by geneer

[lulu]

Cheers for the stats.

Sales prices rising. Sales numbers rising but only by a relatively small amount. I am seeing a few more under offer signs around than for a good while. Still far less than at the usual for this time of year.

IMO - this is your savvy cash buyers piling in for their bargains + the odd person with large equity moving to a larger/nicer place.

The FTB/BTL market is still as dead as a dodo. And as we all know this is the one that really matters in the long term. Unless of course all could change and the bottom bit just falls off - forever ?

Can't see it myself. Market needs the bottom feeders - aka myself.

But the delusion is still there.

I am about to sign the lease on a one bedroom place to rent. There is another in the same block with an asking price of £150,000 for sale. Collegues at my work think I am mad for not buying instead of renting. Even my explanation of being unable to afford £150,000 did not seem to bother them, this is apparently my 'best time to buy' the fact that it would not be possible for me to get such a big mortgage seems almost irrelevent.

[HAMISH_MCTAVISH]

But the delusion is still there.

I am about to sign the lease on a one bedroom place to rent. There is another in the same block with an asking price of £150,000 for sale. Collegues at my work think I am mad for not buying instead of renting. Even my explanation of being unable to afford £150,000 did not seem to bother them, this is apparently my 'best time to buy' the fact that it would not be possible for me to get such a big mortgage seems almost irrelevent.

How much is the rent?

[copper crutch]

Latest RoS figures out today for month of May.

Edinburgh = +6%

April price = £183,169

May average sold price = £194,100

One month gain = £10,931

Sales Volume 475, +7.5%

I Am glad i just concluded my purchase, i have saved 15k from peak price, to rent this flat id have had to pay 500 per month, my mortgage is only 422.

Prices have bottomed out now that property is selling again, i have noted a lot of rental properties being rented as well.Now is the time to buy, no point hanging back,now that hpi is on the way.

And this article is cast iron proof that the market has turned, i am glad i bought when i did.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/mortgages-and..._id=57&ct=5

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8125728.stm

Edited June 30, 2009 by thecrutchster

[robmatic]

I am about to sign the lease on a one bedroom place to rent. There is another in the same block with an asking price of £150,000 for sale. Collegues at my work think I am mad for not buying instead of renting. Even my explanation of being unable to afford £150,000 did not seem to bother them, this is apparently my 'best time to buy' the fact that it would not be possible for me to get such a big mortgage seems almost irrelevent.

I know exactly where you're coming from! I think people who have owned for a while don't understand what the deposit requirements actually mean for FTBs or how relatively poor the mortgage deals are. I moved into a new place a couple of months ago, and eyebrows were raised at my rent of £550pm... but this is actually good value when at the same time a pretty much identical flat in the same block was for sale for £155,000. So, the rent is actually cheaper than the mortgage would be (both interest-only which is the critical point for me and hundreds of pounds cheaper than repayment). And that's all hypothetical anyway, because getting that mortgage would require earning a very good salary for someone in their 20s, and having paid off student/graduate debts and saved more than £20,000.

[The McGlashan]

Following the re-launch of the RoS website over the last few days, which hasn't gone perfectly (they've withdrawn the 'interactive map' which caused such controversy yesterday), I'm pleased to say that the usual monthly data tables have been published, slightly earlier than usual.

http://www.ros.gov.uk/pdfs/local%20authori...0may%202009.pdf

Graphs for Edinburgh price attached.

Edinburgh average price is unchanged on the month, following last month's pronounced bounce.

-7.5% YoY

Volume steady.

[geneer]

Basically, Edinburgh has remained stagnant over march/april/may.

Whos going to blink first.

[lulu]

How much is the rent?

£450 a month in probably one of the best thought of parts of town (just fitted with new carpets and freshly decorated) - obviously more than I would like as I would prefer to live with other people. But sadly most of the rooms available to let in shared flats at I have seen have inhabited by social rejects or in such a poor state that there was no way I would live in some of them.

[lulu]

I know exactly where you're coming from! I think people who have owned for a while don't understand what the deposit requirements actually mean for FTBs or how relatively poor the mortgage deals are. I moved into a new place a couple of months ago, and eyebrows were raised at my rent of £550pm... but this is actually good value when at the same time a pretty much identical flat in the same block was for sale for £155,000. So, the rent is actually cheaper than the mortgage would be (both interest-only which is the critical point for me and hundreds of pounds cheaper than repayment). And that's all hypothetical anyway, because getting that mortgage would require earning a very good salary for someone in their 20s, and having paid off student/graduate debts and saved more than £20,000.

Good to hear it is not just me

I simply think that most do not even have any concept how much prices in the city have gone up relative to salaries.

It is often suggested to me that given where I work I should think about moving to Penicuik/Loanhead which I wouldnt mind doing but it really is no cheaper than buying in town. £130K+ for a ex council semi detached in Bilston is hardly good value.

[ccc]

£450 a month in probably one of the best thought of parts of town (just fitted with new carpets and freshly decorated) - obviously more than I would like as I would prefer to live with other people. But sadly most of the rooms available to let in shared flats at I have seen have inhabited by social rejects or in such a poor state that there was no way I would live in some of them.

On sale for 150k ?

So a basic yield of 3.6%. Or in old fashioned terms 28 years to pay for the place by rental returns.

I think the pros uses the 'Sell at 18 times annual rent, buy at 12 times' rule of thumb ? And this one is sitting at 27 times......

A professional lanlord would not even spit on these sort of places at today's prices.

Yet people think prices here are going to rise. They have no clue. They simply have no clue. The talk of 'bargains' is just laughable.

Your flat at 65k would be a bargain. A one bed flat in Gorgie at 45k would be a bargain.

If this crash follows out as expected in terms of long term trends & averages, the general public are in for one hell of a shock.

[lulu]

On sale for 150k ?

So a basic yield of 3.6%. Or in old fashioned terms 28 years to pay for the place by rental returns.

I think the pros uses the 'Sell at 18 times annual rent, buy at 12 times' rule of thumb ? And this one is sitting at 27 times......

A professional lanlord would not even spit on these sort of places at today's prices.

Yet people think prices here are going to rise. They have no clue. They simply have no clue. The talk of 'bargains' is just laughable.

Your flat at 65k would be a bargain. A one bed flat in Gorgie at 45k would be a bargain.

If this crash follows out as expected in terms of long term trends & averages, the general public are in for one hell of a shock.

I am going to keep track of the place for sale.

I reckon if the price came down to something in the region of £110,00 I would consider buying it. But that would mean a hefty drop from what it is 'worth' just now, I think the only thing keeping prices so high is the low interest rates and the 'Edinburgh is special' mentality.

Honestly I get some funny looks when I point out to people that prices have fallen here in the last year, I am not sure they even think it was possible.

They all believe the crap in the papers too about prices rising again - until I point out that because the number of sales is so low then it is very easy for the average selling prices to be distorted.

[robmatic]

£450 a month in probably one of the best thought of parts of town

Where is Hamish when you want someone with unparalleled financial knowledge to justify why a gross yield of 3.6% is a rollicking investment on an asset which is depreciating in capital value?

[robmatic]

£450 a month in probably one of the best thought of parts of town (just fitted with new carpets and freshly decorated) - obviously more than I would like as I would prefer to live with other people. But sadly most of the rooms available to let in shared flats at I have seen have inhabited by social rejects or in such a poor state that there was no way I would live in some of them.

Obviously a bit late but if you'd managed to rustle up a flatmate 2 bedroom flats are so cheap to rent right now... they seem to be about £50pm more expensive in terms of overall rent than 1 bedroom places!

[lulu]

Obviously a bit late but if you'd managed to rustle up a flatmate 2 bedroom flats are so cheap to rent right now... they seem to be about £50pm more expensive in terms of overall rent than 1 bedroom places!

Yeah, I know. It is really annoying.

I was working hard on some of my friends but most are settled elsewhere or loved up. There are so many two-bed places going it is unreal and compared to the one bedrooms, you are right they are very very cheap. I even mentioned this to an agent who was showing me a one bed place and he said they were just getting so many of them that they were struggling to let them all out just now.

[ccc]

Very interesting article below:

DJ's Story

Rather more honest about the situation now than he was last year.

At least it is someone in the business who admits what went wrong for a change. As the first comment says - what goes around comes around.

He has one thing going for him at least. He is not in denial like many of the other experts out there.

"The majority of people's wealth in the UK in recent years has been on the back of property. I don't think it will ever go back to the halcyon days.

"People got carried away, wanting bigger cars, bigger houses and so on. I think when something happens, you've just got to adjust your lifestyle and start appreciating things you took for granted."

[Guest An Bearin Bui]

"People got carried away, wanting bigger cars, bigger houses and so on. I think when something happens, you've just got to adjust your lifestyle and start appreciating things you took for granted."[/b][/i]

No, no, David, old chap: YOU got carried away and YOU lost money as a result. The rest of us have kept our feet on the ground, our money out of property and prospered as a result.

Can't wait to see this guy go bust and it annoys me in the extreme that he still has a business going purely due to the 'rent it out instead' brigade :angry: :angry:

[ccc]

No, no, David, old chap: YOU got carried away and YOU lost money as a result. The rest of us have kept our feet on the ground, our money out of property and prospered as a result.

Can't wait to see this guy go bust and it annoys me in the extreme that he still has a business going purely due to the 'rent it out instead' brigade :angry: :angry:

I don't think his letting business is going anywhere near as well as he says.

Have a look around the New Town. The sheer number of DJ flats sitting for months with no takers is amazing.

[ccc]

Not being from this part of town could someone confirm this price is well... ******ing mental..

******ing Mental Price

Three bed flat in Bruntsfield.

[dances with sheeple]

Not being from this part of town could someone confirm this price is well... ******ing mental..

******ing Mental Price

Three bed flat in Bruntsfield.

well mental indeed, for half a millon quid you don`t want any neighbours anywhere near you, especially to the right, left top or bottom! People will cotton on eventually when it is their own money they are spending and not the Peter Pan stuff.

Edited July 15, 2009 by dances with sheeple

[Scunnered]

Not being from this part of town could someone confirm this price is well... ******ing mental..

******ing Mental Price

Three bed flat in Bruntsfield.

I thought the picture looked familiar, and it turns out that we discussed the next-door flat about 60 pages ago on this very thread.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...t&p=1602861 (plus several of the following posts).

Number 12a, which is presumably the next-door flat (although it was described as a basement flat) sold for £555,555 in December 2007, so they're trying to go back in time by 18 months.

Edited July 15, 2009 by Scunnered

[dances with sheeple]

I thought the picture looked familiar, and it turns out that we discussed the next-door flat about 60 pages ago on this very thread.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...t&p=1602861 (plus several of the following posts).

Number 12a, which is presumably the next-door flat (although it was described as a basement flat) sold for £555,555 in December 2007, so they're trying to go back in time by 18 months.

Yes, there must be a lot of people gutted by the daft decisions they have made over the past few years, many are not going to go quietly, this crash is going to be more drawn out than many (including me) first thought.

[Scunnered]

Yes, there must be a lot of people gutted by the daft decisions they have made over the past few years, many are not going to go quietly, this crash is going to be more drawn out than many (including me) first thought.

Hah! I first started to think things were completely mad in about 2003, but then they just kept on getting madder and madder for another 5 or 6 years. The problem is that the whole thing's taking so long that I'm starting to run out of time. It's beginning to look as if taking on a 4.5x salary mortgage back in 2005 or so would have been quite a sensible move.

[ccc]

That 3 bed flat for half a million. Or this incredible house for offers over 1.7 million.

The Whitehouse

Some flats in town make this sort of place seem almost a bargain in comparison.

Edited July 16, 2009 by ccc

[ccc]

Just glanced at that DJ article. An interesting comment I will copy onto here just in case it is deleted.

DJ Article

"Clearly a piece of 'poor hard done by me' PR by DJA, rather difficult given he was master of his own fate.

- DJA was not only the principle investor in Heritors, an umbrella name for in excess of 30 funds, all now in administration but he was also the decision maker, approving all purchases and prices paid. The whole operation was fronted by a former HK lawyer turned 'Fund Manager' Chris Buchan, fair to call him DJ's b**** who now appears has high tailed out of Edinburgh!

- Both parties 'investments' came largely from fees charged to the funds. In DJA's case, letting / management fees by his company.

In CB's case, his fees were based on the annual uplift in values and 'paid' from a pot including equity released by year on year re-valuations of the properties owned.

The re-valuations required by the bank were carried out by independent valuers, albeit from a bank panel but were 'appointed' and 'paid' by the fund manager! RICS regulations appear to allow a 10% margin of error in valuations carried out by its members.

- The DJA's 'small' Dubai office was set up to persuade yet more investors to part with funds in a new investment fund and of course, manage their properties.

- DJA also launched a London office in Knightbride, again to persuade new investors to yet another new fund, yes you've guessed it, this time London properties. This office is now closed and the fund in administration.

- Over and above all his letting & acquisition in put to Heritors, D J Alexander's ran a separate licenced company which gave financial advice to potential investors!

Summary, this never was an expert, merely a great example of a pair of greed sales men. All the funds were based on claims of undeliverable profits which investors allowed themselves to believe, not unlike the relationship between a certain Mr Madoff and his investors.

I read recently that it is not uncommon for Investment Bankers and Fund Managers to be self dillusional to the point of bein"

MAXTHESHEEP, EDINBURGH

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Either this person is an amazing story teller - or thery know exactly what they are talking about. I go for option B.

Seems our DJ was nothing more than the Scottish Property Madoff. I think we should get a bonus seeing as we outed the rat like wee **** over a year ago.