Soldiers Stand By To Drive Petrol Tankers As Part Of Contingency Plans To Stop A Strike Plunging Britain Into Chaos

[Frank Hovis]

Local radio today, the presenter said that she could see their point of view because fuel prices are just too high. Nothing like researching a story properly is there!

[geezer466]

Which ever way it goes the Government will make sure the proles suffer for a few days....

Just to make sure whatever public support there is for the strikers (and the reductions of fuel taxes) evaporates.

Using the army to break a strike can never be a good thing.

[Andy D]

The oil companies will not want to bend over for the strikers, and a few weeks' profits won't worry them if it means i) being able to make a massive margin on the fuel they do sell, and ii) not having to overpay the drivers for ever after. The vast majority of the losses would be borne by the public and not the oil companies or the strikers. If there ever was a good reason for the government to intervene, this must surely be it.

With the exception of Shell & BP how many oil companies actually sell their own product these days? (own in the losses sense of the word as I'm aware the sell product from each others refineries)

Price of petrol is basically set at crude cost (set on open market) plus refining cost, plus a small profit plus tax

[Bruce Banner]

It's a shame the army can't be bought in to replace this diabolical government at significantly reduced wages. I'm sure we would get a better job done and security thrown in for free. I think we would all quickly realise that there are no magical skills required other than talking BS, lying and making false promises at every opportunity.

You could always have Blair and Brown back, along with Balls and all the other lowlifes .

If a few less misguided people had voted Labour at the last election we'd have a strong government now rather than a compromised coalition.

[TheMadJock]

get the soldiers to drive trains as well , the train drivers are holding the UK to ransom right now

Really? Please expand on this, I'm in the industry and am not aware of any ongoing disputes where 'train drivers are holding the UK to ransom'.

The only issue I know regards the idiot leader of the RMT, Mr Bob Crow, ruffling feathers over the Olympics with London Underground. Bob Crow would love to think he represemts all train drivers and have the power that would bring him but the fact is that he does not; Underground aside, the vast majority of drivers are with ASLEF, a far more sensible and agreeable organisation.

I can assure you that if ASLEF are involved in a dispute there will be damned good reason and with the way management (if many are fit to be described as such) behave it is of great credit to ASLEF that they are prepared to negotiiate their way around problems in the manner they do.

It is true that train drivers are 'well paid' but I can tell you that the cost in terms of social life, family time and health issues due to shifts is no more than compensated for. Furthermore, those deluded enough to think they're a bunch of buffoons who just sit there would have a rude awakening regarding the rules, technical and route knowledge they posess; idiots are very quickly exposed and won't last very long never mind a 40 year career!

The fact that the rest of the UK workforce has allowed themselves to be undercut and rolled over in the name of profit and a race to the bottom is no fault of ASLEF or it's drivers. Sadly this country has now reached the stage where people would prefer to see others lose what they have worked for than see their own lot improved; we should all be pulling together in aspiration, not allowing ourselves to get divided and be conquered. Do you think that if drivers took a £10K pay cut the fares would fall and/or the subsidies would be less? I think we all know the answer to that.

You will by now realise that you got my goat somewhat but to be honest the kind of ignorant, misinformed and frankly untrue one-liner comment you made cannot go uncorrected.

[Lepista]

And where would you raise taxes to replace the money lost if fuel duties fall?

I'd be happy if tax intake went down, and government expenditure dropped too. It's about time they started spending much, much less of our money.

[porca misèria]

Bint from what i think was unite:

"it's about health and safety. Lots of fuel on the back, there can be explosions you know. There's a lot of pressure on the industry, to cut corners. Every year contracts are renewed, with undercutting. We want to end this free for all".

That is not quote perfect.

So she wants a cartel or long contracts, or is it health and safety. Or is it a political stunt. I panick bought first at my local petrol station. Doing my bit.

Moving big loads of dangerous liquid is one area where elfin safety does really matter and is a bit more than simple common sense. If 'the industry' is cutting corners in a race to the bottom then they could have a legitimate case.

Not something an outsider can really judge, but I'd be more inclined to believe there was a real case if they made (and explained) a distinction between good and bad employers.

[Snafu]

Moving big loads of dangerous liquid is one area where elfin safety does really matter and is a bit more than simple common sense. If 'the industry' is cutting corners in a race to the bottom then they could have a legitimate case.

Not something an outsider can really judge, but I'd be more inclined to believe there was a real case if they made (and explained) a distinction between good and bad employers.

Do you hear a lot about exploding tankers? I don't.

Do you hear about unions stirring up shit to score political points? I do.

[thod]

F'**'ing sack the lot of them. If they can train soldiers to do it, they can train the unemployed to do it. It's not like there is a shortage of HGV drivers.

[Englebert]

Really? Please expand on this, I'm in the industry and am not aware of any ongoing disputes where 'train drivers are holding the UK to ransom'.

The only issue I know regards the idiot leader of the RMT, Mr Bob Crow, ruffling feathers over the Olympics with London Underground. Bob Crow would love to think he represemts all train drivers and have the power that would bring him but the fact is that he does not; Underground aside, the vast majority of drivers are with ASLEF, a far more sensible and agreeable organisation.

I can assure you that if ASLEF are involved in a dispute there will be damned good reason and with the way management (if many are fit to be described as such) behave it is of great credit to ASLEF that they are prepared to negotiiate their way around problems in the manner they do.

It is true that train drivers are 'well paid' but I can tell you that the cost in terms of social life, family time and health issues due to shifts is no more than compensated for. Furthermore, those deluded enough to think they're a bunch of buffoons who just sit there would have a rude awakening regarding the rules, technical and route knowledge they posess; idiots are very quickly exposed and won't last very long never mind a 40 year career!

The fact that the rest of the UK workforce has allowed themselves to be undercut and rolled over in the name of profit and a race to the bottom is no fault of ASLEF or it's drivers. Sadly this country has now reached the stage where people would prefer to see others lose what they have worked for than see their own lot improved; we should all be pulling together in aspiration, not allowing ourselves to get divided and be conquered. Do you think that if drivers took a £10K pay cut the fares would fall and/or the subsidies would be less? I think we all know the answer to that.

You will by now realise that you got my goat somewhat but to be honest the kind of ignorant, misinformed and frankly untrue one-liner comment you made cannot go uncorrected.

An excellent post.

[@contradevian]

Really? Please expand on this, I'm in the industry and am not aware of any ongoing disputes where 'train drivers are holding the UK to ransom'.

The only issue I know regards the idiot leader of the RMT, Mr Bob Crow, ruffling feathers over the Olympics with London Underground. Bob Crow would love to think he represemts all train drivers and have the power that would bring him but the fact is that he does not; Underground aside, the vast majority of drivers are with ASLEF, a far more sensible and agreeable organisation.

I can assure you that if ASLEF are involved in a dispute there will be damned good reason and with the way management (if many are fit to be described as such) behave it is of great credit to ASLEF that they are prepared to negotiiate their way around problems in the manner they do.

It is true that train drivers are 'well paid' but I can tell you that the cost in terms of social life, family time and health issues due to shifts is no more than compensated for. Furthermore, those deluded enough to think they're a bunch of buffoons who just sit there would have a rude awakening regarding the rules, technical and route knowledge they posess; idiots are very quickly exposed and won't last very long never mind a 40 year career!

The fact that the rest of the UK workforce has allowed themselves to be undercut and rolled over in the name of profit and a race to the bottom is no fault of ASLEF or it's drivers. Sadly this country has now reached the stage where people would prefer to see others lose what they have worked for than see their own lot improved; we should all be pulling together in aspiration, not allowing ourselves to get divided and be conquered. Do you think that if drivers took a £10K pay cut the fares would fall and/or the subsidies would be less? I think we all know the answer to that.

You will by now realise that you got my goat somewhat but to be honest the kind of ignorant, misinformed and frankly untrue one-liner comment you made cannot go uncorrected.

Excellent post.

[Snafu]

Visiting Unite's website. Looked at their "news" update, nothing. Looked at their "comms update" (are they trying to sound like some sort of military function?). Nothing.

Found their Twitter feed, and lo and behold, a PDF. Which is funny.

"The strike ballot is the latest chapter in

the long saga of the efforts by workers

and their union to try to fix the broken

operation of an industry which is:

• fragmented

• unstable

• too important to the nation to leave

to pure market forces.

"What is this dispute about?

It is NOT about pay.

It IS about stabilising the distribution of

a commodity essential to the smooth

running of this country by establishing

an industry-wide bottom line on safety,

training and conditions."

SO LET'S LEAVE IT TO THE UNION TO COMPLETELY BREAK THE DISTRIBUTION. Twats. I bet there's an absolutely adequate Health and Safety setup, but Unite want to have it central like the good commies they are.

[Snafu]

Some more nuggets from the pdf:

"These firms are now the distribution arm

of the industry because the oil majors

increasingly outsource this side of their

business to the lowest bidder."

Shock horror, like a free market?

[snowflux]

The BBC website seems to have gone very quiet on this dispute. Could this be to avoid encouraging panic buying of fuel? Is there any panic buying? Should we be panic buying?

[Torryloonmadegood]

Is Unite not the union of the non-productive public sector ? Looks like its well thought through...well what would you expect from parasites.

Yep like drivers earning £45k a year is going to get much public sympathy. Much the same as Unite calling for us to support the non-producers pensions.

Crush the strike anyway possible !

[snowflux]

Is Unite not the union of the non-productive public sector ? Looks like its well thought through...well what would you expect from parasites.

Yep like drivers earning £45k a year is going to get much public sympathy. Much the same as Unite calling for us to support the non-producers pensions.

Crush the strike anyway possible !

That is one seriously confused post. The public sector worker's union is Unison, not Unite. The tanker driver's strike has nothing to do with the public sector. If, however, the strike is "crushed" by using army drivers then it would do, given that soldiers are public sector workers.

[geezer466]

F'**'ing sack the lot of them. If they can train soldiers to do it, they can train the unemployed to do it. It's not like there is a shortage of HGV drivers.

Up till a few years around 07 ago there was a shortage of drivers. Some supermarkets were experiencing supply chain issues simply because there were insufficient LGV drivers available to deliver the product to the stores. In the early noughties this led to an improvement in conditions and pay across the industry.

Then slowly at first, migration from the EU came in to fill the jobs, this led to worsening conditions and is driving down wages, this is in essence what this dispute is about. In a nutshell the employers want to re-align contracts (on the basis wage costs have to be reduced), if drivers don't like or don't sign then in the fullness of time they can get rid of them and employ cheaper alternatives (from you know where).

Market forces yes as there are persons available to do the job cheaper subject to EU membership and the rules which go with that. People quick to harangue the Union and these drivers for taking the action they are should remember this can and will in time affect most industries and that no job is really safe.

Drivers carrying inflammable liquids would still need to do an ADR test this is a written examination and would be in addition to practical and theory examinations to ensure they knew how to handle the vehicles. Most if not all of the Army drivers will already have this qualification in that they will as a matter of course transport ammunition and other stores that have a tendency to go bang if not properly looked after.

The only training the Army will be currently undergoing is conversion on the various types of pumping equipment in use.

Yes you could train the unemployed to do it but realistically you are looking at a 6 Month lead time from induction to end product and the ability to for them to carry out the job unaided.

After all we wouldn't be wanting anything like this on UK roads would we? At least 220 people have been killed after an oil tanker overturned and exploded in the Democratic Republic of Congo on Friday night.

[Snafu]

Up till a few years around 07 ago there was a shortage of drivers. Some supermarkets were experiencing supply chain issues simply because there were insufficient LGV drivers available to deliver the product to the stores. In the early noughties this led to an improvement in conditions and pay across the industry.

Then slowly at first, migration from the EU came in to fill the jobs, this led to worsening conditions and is driving down wages, this is in essence what this dispute is about. In a nutshell the employers want to re-align contracts (on the basis wage costs have to be reduced), if drivers don't like or don't sign then in the fullness of time they can get rid of them and employ cheaper alternatives (from you know where).

Market forces yes as there are persons available to do the job cheaper subject to EU membership and the rules which go with that. People quick to harangue the Union and these drivers for taking the action they are should remember this can and will in time affect most industries and that no job is really safe.

Drivers carrying inflammable liquids would still need to do an ADR test this is a written examination and would be in addition to practical and theory examinations to ensure they knew how to handle the vehicles. Most if not all of the Army drivers will already have this qualification in that they will as a matter of course transport ammunition and other stores that have a tendency to go bang if not properly looked after.

The only training the Army will be currently undergoing is conversion on the various types of pumping equipment in use.

Yes you could train the unemployed to do it but realistically you are looking at a 6 Month lead time from induction to end product and the ability to for them to carry out the job unaided.

After all we wouldn't be wanting anything like this on UK roads would we? At least 220 people have been killed after an oil tanker overturned and exploded in the Democratic Republic of Congo on Friday night.

Thanks, makes more sense than some sort of bs about health and safety.

[porca misèria]

Drivers carrying inflammable liquids would still need to do an ADR test this is a written examination and would be in addition to practical and theory examinations to ensure they knew how to handle the vehicles. Most if not all of the Army drivers will already have this qualification in that they will as a matter of course transport ammunition and other stores that have a tendency to go bang if not properly looked after.

The only training the Army will be currently undergoing is conversion on the various types of pumping equipment in use.

Not so sure about army training. Sure, they know about explosives, but do they train for large liquid loads that can tend to slosh around in a big wave with the momentum to overwhelm the brakes and steering if just driven like a regular vehicle?

I guess they do now, if they're busy training for it!

[cybernoid]

Sadly this country has now reached the stage where people would prefer to see others lose what they have worked for than see their own lot improved; we should all be pulling together in aspiration, not allowing ourselves to get divided and be conquered. Do you think that if drivers took a £10K pay cut the fares would fall and/or the subsidies would be less? I think we all know the answer to that.

Do you think if drivers had a pay rise the fares would not rise?

The ongoing adjustment is going to be painful, we are at the point where asset prices (such as houses, remember those?) will reduce as the general publics ability to pay these artificially high prices diminishes due to stagnant/reduced wages and much reduced irresponsible lending/borrowing.

This is necessary. This striking for more money peeing in the wind is not helping. Do you want wage inflation to erode the debts of the irresponsible borrowers who forced responsible people out of the housing market or do you want the value of money to be preserved so you can buy more with it? Yours is a cry for wage inflation ; Fortunately it won't work.

[JPJPJP]

I don't think there will be much public support for such a strike and, without public support, I don't think it will be very long lived

I do think that there would be public support for a protest against fuel prices and I am sort of expecting one anytime soon

[Snafu]

Not so sure about army training. Sure, they know about explosives, but do they train for large liquid loads that can tend to slosh around in a big wave with the momentum to overwhelm the brakes and steering if just driven like a regular vehicle?

I guess they do now, if they're busy training for it!

How do you think those big tanks get their fuel?

[Torryloonmadegood]

Thanks for that, my confusion over the unions.

However to correct your comments Army - productive public sector/a rare example of essential public employee after years of socialist mis-management........however the millions of utterly unnecessary public sector parasites living living high on our tax - not so productive eh ?

That is one seriously confused post. The public sector worker's union is Unison, not Unite. The tanker driver's strike has nothing to do with the public sector. If, however, the strike is "crushed" by using army drivers then it would do, given that soldiers are public sector workers.

[Austin Allegro]

Why is it always soldiers? They are pretty ******ing busy at the moment and they've got better things to do. Why do we not see plans for local councillors to be driving these trucks, or MP's retinues (aside from the fact that they're not easy to drive, but then, it's not as if squaddie initial training consists of personal admin, rifle cleaning and driving a huge truck) ?

In the General Strike of '26 they got undergraduates from Oxford and Cambridge volunteering as strike breakers. Imagine that nowadays!

[bomberbrown]

Really? Please expand on this, I'm in the industry and am not aware of any ongoing disputes where 'train drivers are holding the UK to ransom'.

The only issue I know regards the idiot leader of the RMT, Mr Bob Crow, ruffling feathers over the Olympics with London Underground. Bob Crow would love to think he represemts all train drivers and have the power that would bring him but the fact is that he does not; Underground aside, the vast majority of drivers are with ASLEF, a far more sensible and agreeable organisation.

I can assure you that if ASLEF are involved in a dispute there will be damned good reason and with the way management (if many are fit to be described as such) behave it is of great credit to ASLEF that they are prepared to negotiiate their way around problems in the manner they do.

It is true that train drivers are 'well paid' but I can tell you that the cost in terms of social life, family time and health issues due to shifts is no more than compensated for. Furthermore, those deluded enough to think they're a bunch of buffoons who just sit there would have a rude awakening regarding the rules, technical and route knowledge they posess; idiots are very quickly exposed and won't last very long never mind a 40 year career!

The fact that the rest of the UK workforce has allowed themselves to be undercut and rolled over in the name of profit and a race to the bottom is no fault of ASLEF or it's drivers. Sadly this country has now reached the stage where people would prefer to see others lose what they have worked for than see their own lot improved; we should all be pulling together in aspiration, not allowing ourselves to get divided and be conquered. Do you think that if drivers took a £10K pay cut the fares would fall and/or the subsidies would be less? I think we all know the answer to that.

You will by now realise that you got my goat somewhat but to be honest the kind of ignorant, misinformed and frankly untrue one-liner comment you made cannot go uncorrected.

Just to put a bit of meat on the bones of this as it were, what if I was to qualify this as just Tube drivers and the RMT, rather than all train drivers in general? Is that better?

I see your points, but in the same way if when you join the Army, you know what you're getting into so the cost to family/social life doesn't wash with me I'm afraid. There's no denying that there's a growing resentment over striking tube drivers amongst many of the Londoners that I speak to and more so over this Olympic's fiasco, not to mention the Boxing Day strike last year.

Almost everyone one I know that works in London has been asked by their employer to be as flexible as possible over the period of the Olympics. Getting into work earlier, later etc but none of those are threatening strike action or demanding extra pay of £500, £800, £2,000 or what ever it is this week.

I don't resent the drivers or the RMT for trying to get a bonus, who wouldn't? In fact, did the RMT ballot its members over this latest issue and what happens if they fail to reach an agreement? Strike action? The Olympics would be fun.