Titanic Quarter Apartments Discussion Thread

[talksalot81]

Of course wangling your way out of a contract using a 'technicality' is morally questionable. Whilst I have no sympathy for the developers, a contract really is a contract and one should do one's homework before signing it. Of course if the developer fails to deliver as promised, it is a somewhat different story!

[titanicdev]

Of course wangling your way out of a contract using a 'technicality' is morally questionable. Whilst I have no sympathy for the developers, a contract really is a contract and one should do one's homework before signing it. Of course if the developer fails to deliver as promised, it is a somewhat different story!

Interesting perspective. As I metioned in previous posts I did my "homework" and bought with the best of intentions.

[trebor21]

Interesting perspective. As I metioned in previous posts I did my "homework" and bought with the best of intentions.

Business is business, if you can get out on technacilitys then thats for solictors to work out.

[subby]

Business is business, if you can get out on technacilitys then thats for solictors to work out.

absolutely!

Business is business and in business it's cut throat...no room for morals or sentiment.....

[YoungFTB]

Business is business, if you can get out on technacilitys then thats for solictors to work out.

I agree

[talksalot81]

Business is business, if you can get out on technacilitys then thats for solictors to work out.

Well when does housing cease to be business and start to be personal? I am pretty sure that there are people on here who have been gazumped or gazundered and suffered because of it.... it is the same thing really....

[trebor21]

Well when does housing cease to be business and start to be personal? I am pretty sure that there are people on here who have been gazumped or gazundered and suffered because of it.... it is the same thing really....

Housing is still a business transaction and always will be, just like buying a car, your grocerys etc. Gasumping and Gazundering are really similar to going into buy a car, you agree the deal but need to get your finance sorted etc, but on your way back you spot another car for less than the one you want, you would walk away from the first deal. Just as the seller would sell the car while you were sorting the money out if someone else came along and offered more.

People dont have to be gazumped or Gazundered, sell at auction but most people take the chance on the estate agent market as they believe they will get more money!

Edited October 23, 2008 by trebor21

[Perky Pat]

I'm interested in the definition of 'investment' which has been running through this thread.

The investor in the TQ apartment talks about the apartment being a 'long term investment' - but I think even this is being optimistic.

You can can only really calculate if it's an investment if you compare what your money could have done for your elsewhere over the same period.

So you could invest, I don't know, £50k in a deposit and five years of mortgage payments and fees, etc. in TQ and then (if you're lucky) sell for a small profit.

You need to compate this option with what that £50k would have done in a high interest building society ISA bond over the same period.

I'm betting that in the new economic reality the bond would be the better (and certainly safer) investment.

I'm not trying to kick anyone down - but I think it's useful to correct people who talk about investing in property (even for the long term). This is unlikely to be a sensible option for at least a generation.

Ramble over - and hello.

[titanicdev]

I'm interested in the definition of 'investment' which has been running through this thread.

The investor in the TQ apartment talks about the apartment being a 'long term investment' - but I think even this is being optimistic.

You can can only really calculate if it's an investment if you compare what your money could have done for your elsewhere over the same period.

So you could invest, I don't know, £50k in a deposit and five years of mortgage payments and fees, etc. in TQ and then (if you're lucky) sell for a small profit.

You need to compate this option with what that £50k would have done in a high interest building society ISA bond over the same period.

I'm betting that in the new economic reality the bond would be the better (and certainly safer) investment.

I'm not trying to kick anyone down - but I think it's useful to correct people who talk about investing in property (even for the long term). This is unlikely to be a sensible option for at least a generation.

Ramble over - and hello.

A good point, my comments were made in the context of the housing market in particular apartment dwellings and within the context of the timeframe the investment was made.

Possible putting two tenners in a softly lit room with Barry White playing may have more chance of making me money than this... but time will tell Thanks for the comment...

Any other people out there who have comments on the TQ development? Knowledge is power...

[gazza982]

Hi titanicdev,

We have booked one overlooking the water also. We will be living in it and aren't investors. I won't say which core for obvious reasons.

Maybe if enough buyers come forward we could group together and approach the developer regarding a slight reduction on the price given market conditions.

I hope we don't end up living in an apartment with empty ones all around us due to people not getting mortgages.

I think the developer needs to show that the first phase was a success.

[MrFox]

Hi titanicdev,

We have booked one overlooking the water also. We will be living in it and aren't investors. I won't say which core for obvious reasons.

Maybe if enough buyers come forward we could group together and approach the developer regarding a slight reduction on the price given market conditions.

I hope we don't end up living in an apartment with empty ones all around us due to people not getting mortgages.

I think the developer needs to show that the first phase was a success.

Welcome to the foum Gazza. How did you find us?

Unfortunately it looks like you guys have signed a contract for a certain price and it will be hard to get out of. Anything is worth a try though. How would you round up any other investors? Try putting an ad on the rental part of gumtree, lots of BTL guys on there trying to get apartments/houses rented.

[talksalot81]

Housing is still a business transaction and always will be, just like buying a car, your grocerys etc. Gasumping and Gazundering are really similar to going into buy a car, you agree the deal but need to get your finance sorted etc, but on your way back you spot another car for less than the one you want, you would walk away from the first deal. Just as the seller would sell the car while you were sorting the money out if someone else came along and offered more.

People dont have to be gazumped or Gazundered, sell at auction but most people take the chance on the estate agent market as they believe they will get more money!

That may well be the case but I bet you would have a few choice words to say if you lost money as a result of gazumping or gazundering.... every last person I have known it to happen to has used unpleasant terms about those who did it upon them....

[subby]

Hi titanicdev,

We have booked one overlooking the water also. We will be living in it and aren't investors. I won't say which core for obvious reasons.

Maybe if enough buyers come forward we could group together and approach the developer regarding a slight reduction on the price given market conditions.

I hope we don't end up living in an apartment with empty ones all around us due to people not getting mortgages.

I think the developer needs to show that the first phase was a success.

at this stage....quite likely

in 3-4 years time....maybe not

If I was you I'd be more worried about Department for Social Development buying these flats and giving them to people on the housing lists, you'd get some "choice" neighbours

[subby]

welcome to you new people btw

[yadayada]

at this stage....quite likely

in 3-4 years time....maybe not

If I was you I'd be more worried about Department for Social Development buying these flats and giving them to people on the housing lists, you'd get some "choice" neighbours

Back in the 1980's you could squat in a flat in a tower block in Golder's Green when you went to work in London for the summer. Even get a phone connected if you wanted. Great fun at 19 and a squatter. Quite a horrible prospect if you're a neighbouring owner (no one was) - could be the future of some of the excess housing in NI?

[titanicdev]

Hi titanicdev,

We have booked one overlooking the water also. We will be living in it and aren't investors. I won't say which core for obvious reasons.

Maybe if enough buyers come forward we could group together and approach the developer regarding a slight reduction on the price given market conditions.

I hope we don't end up living in an apartment with empty ones all around us due to people not getting mortgages.

I think the developer needs to show that the first phase was a success.

Hi gazza982,

Thanks for the post. I completely agree with your suggestion of buyers getting together. If you know of anyone else perhaps you can direct them towards this forum and we can continue this thread or start a new one.

Keep in touch I have added you as a friend.

We should post an add on gumtree. I believe there is one existing already.

[gazza982]

Thanks for the welcome everyone. I have to say this is very a friendly forum I was expecting to be tarred and feathered for purchasing an apartment at the peak.

TitanicDev, I haven’t met any other buyers yet but will be putting the word out. I googled ‘Titanic Quarter The Arc’ and this forum is about third from the top so hopefully others will find us.

Obviously the developer has to make a decent profit but I’m sure they have room to move on the price. I think we need numbers to convince them they really want to help.

Thanks Lagansider for the heads up regarding the Management company. Hopefully if enough purchasers come forward we can seek advice so we don’t fall into that sort of trap. The private forum is a very good idea and if deemed necessary I could sort out for free.

Edited October 23, 2008 by gazza982

[Ulidia]

Thanks for the welcome everyone. I have to say this is very a friendly forum I was expecting to be tarred and feathered for purchasing an apartment at the peak.

TitanicDev, I haven’t met any other buyers yet but will be putting the word out. I googled ‘Titanic Quarter The Arc’ and this forum is about third from the top so hopefully others will find us.

Obviously the developer has to make a decent profit but I’m sure they have room to move on the price. I think we need numbers to convince them they really want to help.

Thanks Lagansider for the heads up regarding the Management company. Hopefully if enough purchasers come forward we can seek advice so we don’t fall into that sort of trap. The private forum is a very good idea and if deemed necessary I could sort out for free.

Good luck with the investment. However. please note that the developer may not have full discretion over price i.e. any price reduction may need approval from the supporting bank(s).

[Traktion]

Welcome! I think we're generally pretty friendly here. The moderators never need to get involved and we are generally good natured.

Most of the long termers here were warning about the dangers of the boom and how it would end in tears. It's a shame these thoughts weren't picked up by the general media, but that doesn't mean were happy about the bust. Sure, we're happy the prices are returning to something more sustainable, but I think we're all aware of the hardships which everyone (including non-home owners, like me) will go through. Unfortunately, this credit bubble popping is going to continue to cause havoc for a long time imo.

On the bright side, it will be good for the country in the long run and this recession is the bitter medicine. It's just won't be pleasant during the healing process though...

[Traktion]

This is an interesting development at another apartment block:

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Homebuyer...rice.4581233.jp

Five of the apartments had been agreed for sale at "full price" last year.

Asked how those buyers were now feeling at seeing their properties effectively halved in value over a year, Mr Clark said: "The builder has been flexible and renegotiated prices with them — their contracts haven't been completed yet, they will be completed next week."

Perhaps the TQ developers will decide to take similar steps?

[SSNomadic]

This is an interesting development at another apartment block:

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Homebuyer...rice.4581233.jp

Perhaps the TQ developers will decide to take similar steps?

Evening all,

I have been a little neglectful of the forum recently, apologies.

To the new guys seeking out fellow TQ purchasers, i too have secured a two bed unit in the development and i too share your concerns.

I am going to see my solicitor on a few matters on monday including a discussion of the contract for purchase that i signed in relation to the TQ. At present my thoughts are also along the lines of approaching the developer to attempt to renegotiate on price, however i want to find out how water tight the contact is and what sort of bargaining power it will give me.

I also agree that if enough fellow purchasers could be contacted etc then a united front approach would be the best way forward. Timings etc around this would obviously have to be considered i.e there is very little point in making contact at the moment in the hope of securing a reduction for completion in 2010. This would be likely to severly affect Harcourt developments financial statements for one which in the current climate could have a sig impact for them.

Have any of you guys obtained legal advice regarding developers ability to force completion etc?.

[SSNomadic]

Evening all,

I have been a little neglectful of the forum recently, apologies.

To the new guys seeking out fellow TQ purchasers, i too have secured a two bed unit in the development and i too share your concerns.

I am going to see my solicitor on a few matters on monday including a discussion of the contract for purchase that i signed in relation to the TQ. At present my thoughts are also along the lines of approaching the developer to attempt to renegotiate on price, however i want to find out how water tight the contact is and what sort of bargaining power it will give me.

I also agree that if enough fellow purchasers could be contacted etc then a united front approach would be the best way forward. Timings etc around this would obviously have to be considered i.e there is very little point in making contact at the moment in the hope of securing a reduction for completion in 2010. This would be likely to severly affect Harcourt developments financial statements for one which in the current climate could have a sig impact for them.

Have any of you guys obtained legal advice regarding developers ability to force completion etc?.

I would add, that if any other people on the forum have any knowledge or experience regarding developers ability to force completion etc that they share their info. Imo I think it would be more prudent for the developer to negotiate a uniform reduction with all purchasers to avoid inequity in the development etc

[gazza982]

Evening all,

I also agree that if enough fellow purchasers could be contacted etc then a united front approach would be the best way forward. Timings etc around this would obviously have to be considered i.e there is very little point in making contact at the moment in the hope of securing a reduction for completion in 2010. This would be likely to severly affect Harcourt developments financial statements for one which in the current climate could have a sig impact for them.

Have any of you guys obtained legal advice regarding developers ability to force completion etc?.

It's good to hear from you MB1.

I agree that contact should be left for at least 6 months. My thoughts are we really need at least 30 buyers onboard to discuss a reduction with the developer. We could all split legal expenses etc, if this is required.

I intend to complete but see problems when I go to obtain the mortgage due to the apartment probably being worth 60% to 70% of the contracted price. TQ was the only development that we fancied purchasing so aren't too worried about a paper loss for at least 5 years. I'm sure the developer is expecting people to have problems obtaining finance due to the dramatic downturn in the market.

Hopefully they will work with us so that the development isn't a ghost town for years to come as we really want to live there.

Edited October 26, 2008 by gazza982

[jonb]

Yes, but what does that actually mean? Why would it be preferable to live in an apartment over a house?

I'm not having a go, I'm just trying to understand things from your point of view.

I live in a rented flat rather than a rented house because I just need to walk round the corner to get to the town centre, council tax and heating bills are cheaper, and I don't have to do any gardening.

[SSNomadic]

It's good to hear from you MB1.

I agree that contact should be left for at least 6 months. My thoughts are we really need at least 30 buyers onboard to discuss a reduction with the developer. We could all split legal expenses etc, if this is required.

I intend to complete but see problems when I go to obtain the mortgage due to the apartment probably being worth 60% to 70% of the contracted price. TQ was the only development that we fancied purchasing so aren't too worried about a paper loss for at least 5 years. I'm sure the developer is expecting people to have problems obtaining finance due to the dramatic downturn in the market.

Hopefully they will work with us so that the development isn't a ghost town for years to come as we really want to live there.

I am in the same position, i think it is and will be an excellent development. I also agree that we try to get as large a number of purchasers together before we make any approach to the developer. I personally know a few people who have also bought in the development so can start spreading the word.

I just hope the developer is receptive to us and doesnt simply attempt to force completion upon us at the agreed prices.

Again, in order to retain my interest in the development i would still be willing to pay over the market value of the apartment and suffer the loss for a period of time. I dont imagine by any stretch that we will get a huge reduction or secure it under mkt value but i do think the more purchasers we can round up the more of a voice we will have. I imagine the developer would rather negotiate once and avoid the hassle of tooing and frooing to secure timely completions.

Have you any ideas if the development is currently on schedule etc or if it is running behind?

I look at the development quite reguarly and it appears that the first few cores are been concentrated on a lot more than the later ones which still do not seem to have the complete form work done to all floors.