Ireland - Referendum On Fiscal Treaty........

[happy_renting]

The referendun would appear to be a sham. My understanding is this:-

If all 27 countries had signed the Treaty, I don't think there would be an Irish referendum. There is only an Irish referendum now because it is a non-EU Treaty. Ironically, Cameron delivered a referendum to Ireland, but denies us one in the UK.

If the Irish vote no, they will still be bound by it, having already signed it. The treaty becomes binding if only 17 of the 25 states sign it - which has already occurred.

If they vote no, they will however be ineligible to be bailed out by the European Stablity Mechanism if they get into more trouble.

So the Irish are only getting a referendum when the outcome is more or less irrelevant and they would be penalised if they vote 'No'.

I hope they vote no, though, at least as a symbolic act. If they don't, it will prove that all the fighting for Irish independence over the past century was just a load of pointless toss.

[leicestersq]

Werent the Irish given a chance to do something about the situation last time? I thought that Sinn Fein gave them a choice of defaulting on their dubious debt obligations?

Previous to that, the will of the Irish people, through the democractically elected Parliament, had decided to guarantee savings in their banks, which meant a bailout and a lot more tax for the Irishman.

All along when it has come down to it, the Irish people have chosen to go along with the bankers game, and only a few voices dissent. If that is what they want, fair enough.

This vote clearly means nothing, but I expect that the Irish people will vote Yes anyway.

[Sir Harold m]

The referendun would appear to be a sham. My understanding is this:-

If all 27 countries had signed the Treaty, I don't think there would be an Irish referendum. There is only an Irish referendum now because it is a non-EU Treaty. Ironically, Cameron delivered a referendum to Ireland, but denies us one in the UK.

If the Irish vote no, they will still be bound by it, having already signed it. The treaty becomes binding if only 17 of the 25 states sign it - which has already occurred.

If they vote no, they will however be ineligible to be bailed out by the European Stablity Mechanism if they get into more trouble.

So the Irish are only getting a referendum when the outcome is more or less irrelevant and they would be penalised if they vote 'No'.

I hope they vote no, though, at least as a symbolic act. If they don't, it will prove that all the fighting for Irish independence over the past century was just a load of pointless toss.

As an anglo-irish ******* mongrel I can tell you this. Irish independence from UK was not about Irish independence at all but about England..

This is why after such a short time of being a free country, they rushed headlong and enthusiastically into a new union over which they had even less power and were treated more as a pet than a partner.

You can see the same in the six counties with the Republicans. They were 100% against any form of power sharing between London and Dublin but are more than happy to be effectively ruled by orangemen who despise everything about them. Forget the demographic argument, it simply wont prevail. The unionists will always rule in the six counties and they will taje every step to ensure they mainatin it, even if it leads to mass catholic migration southwards.

Ironic that the Pira jumped on the civil rights cause (which objected to Unionist rule) and fought tooth and nail against London for forty years only to re-establish unionist rule in the North. (albeit with a share for themselves)

You can see the same thing (although hopefully less violent) happening with the Scots. No soner than they cut the shackles with London than they will pass all authority and power to Brussels or some other union.

[long time lurking]

The referendun would appear to be a sham. My understanding is this:-

If all 27 countries had signed the Treaty, I don't think there would be an Irish referendum. There is only an Irish referendum now because it is a non-EU Treaty. Ironically, Cameron delivered a referendum to Ireland, but denies us one in the UK.

If the Irish vote no, they will still be bound by it, having already signed it. The treaty becomes binding if only 17 of the 25 states sign it - which has already occurred.

If they vote no, they will however be ineligible to be bailed out by the European Stablity Mechanism if they get into more trouble.

So the Irish are only getting a referendum when the outcome is more or less irrelevant and they would be penalised if they vote 'No'.

I hope they vote no, though, at least as a symbolic act. If they don't, it will prove that all the fighting for Irish independence over the past century was just a load of pointless toss.

I thought the vote was more about the financial side i.e bailing out the banks ? Or should that be not bailing out the banks and doing a Iceland

[Democorruptcy]

All Ireland can stop is their own bailout. The rules have changed.

It only needs to be ratified by 12 from 17 states now not 17 from 17 as before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Fiscal_Union

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/could-eu-fiscal-treaty-go-through-with-just-12-states-on-board-332589-Jan2012/

[dances with sheeple]

If Ireland doesn`t get her bailouts, whatever way the people vote, it`s the start of Game Over for the Euro?