I Want To Be Alone: The Rise And Rise Of Solo Living

[The Masked Tulip]

My ex has remarried, she doesn't like him, she thinks he is a tosspot.

Have to ask - why did she marry him? Or did she only discover this tosspot affliction after she married him? How soon after meeting him did she marry him?

Does she keep making the wrong choice in men?

Or is he not a tosspot - that just she is never satisified? (Not in that way)

[bewildered_renter]

As Jean-Paul Sartre said "Hell is other people."

He did write that line, indeed.

But it was uttered by one of his characters in the play Huis Clos. Great play, about a version of hell where three rather troubled people are locked in a room together for eternity, and are tortured by how the others see them.

Which probably means they're actually tortured by their own past failings. That's certainly how I read it, but probably safe to say that "Hell is other people" means something at least a bit more subtle than the fault lies with those other people.

And very probably still relevant to the thread all the same.

[funinhounslow]

Another thing to consider is the financial implications of living alone. OK obviously you're on your own with rent/ mortgage and bills but there are other things such as council tax reduction. Why do single households only get a 25% discount? I put my rubbish/recycling out once a month and don't use the local school. I use the local pool and library almost out of spite!

Food is the other biggie. I can only rarely take advantage of BOGOF offers because half of the time the food gets wasted.

Another disadvantage is that household chores arent divided by two. The flip side to that is that I can be a little more "relaxed" in this department if I feel like it...

I've just realised I've clocked up 10 years living by myself. On the whole I'd say I'm happy with the arrangement (not sure I could have stood it for so long if I was single for all that time). I think it's definitely something everyone should give a go, though this is perhaps easier in London where it is relatively common.

[The Masked Tulip]

Another thing to consider is the financial implications of living alone. OK obviously you're on your own with rent/ mortgage and bills but there are other things such as council tax reduction. Why do single households only get a 25% discount? I put my rubbish/recycling out once a month and don't use the local school. I use the local pool and library almost out of spite!

Food is the other biggie. I can only rarely take advantage of BOGOF offers because half of the time the food gets wasted.

Another disadvantage is that household chores arent divided by two. The flip side to that is that I can be a little more "relaxed" in this department if I feel like it...

I've just realised I've clocked up 10 years living by myself. On the whole I'd say I'm happy with the arrangement (not sure I could have stood it for so long if I was single for all that time). I think it's definitely something everyone should give a go, though this is perhaps easier in London where it is relatively common.

Birthdays.

I know loads of couples so am regularly buying presents for each half of the couple - but the couple get to buy me one birthday present between them,

As for the household chorse - had a gf once who would go into a frenzy on sat and sun mornings insisting that we do a massive clean. Not good.

[chronyx]

Through other friends, I get to meet a few childless singleton guys over 50, sad to say, they're not really worth knowing. Doesn't matter what your ex stung you for, as long as you get to say 'that's mine' when pointing at a picture of a sprog, she has done you the biggest favour in the world, you are a PARENT and that is the best thing in the world to be, whether you live alone or not.

What an achievment, busting my nuts up some bird.

[cybernoid]

What an achievment, busting my nuts up some bird.

Not quite how I would term it but I sympathise with the sentiment. It actually puts me off parenthood, the fact that it takes so much of your potential to achieve other things from you. Animals do it, it's the default, it's not an impressive feat or something to be admired. There are so many other things to do, see the world, invent something, build a business, do something for your local community, so much more to do. Kids take 20 years+ from you, there's frankly so many better ways to spend your precious time that just being yet another parent.

[funinhounslow]

Has anyone ever been on holiday by themselves? Not travelling. Thats doesnt count. I mean a package holiday on your annual two weeks from work.

I would think that would be very awkward.

The closest I came to that was a couple of Easycruises (Greece and the Belgian/Dutch canals). No problem at all.

I've been on package holidays (with friends or partner) and got chatting to people going by themselves and they seemed to enjoy it. I think you have to be quite an outgoing sort to do it though and I certainly wouldn't do it for two weeks. But for a week in the sun, why not. I think most people's reaction would to be intrigued and to wander over for a chat than to think "loser". But you would have to appear happy in your own skin and not desperate for company though.

[GBdamo]

Has anyone ever been on holiday by themselves? Not travelling. Thats doesnt count. I mean a package holiday on your annual two weeks from work.

I would think that would be very awkward.

Yes, but motorcycle touring. I guess thats a bit like travelling, by which I'm guessing you mean gap yar type, however you do meet people and you are a lot less tied to schedules.

I went for 10 days around the Picos, Madrid and Barcelona last September met some good people also ended up camped in one of the gayest places I've ever seen, Sitges I think it was called.

Doing a similar trip in May - ferry from Pylmouth to Santander then to Barcelona - another ferry to Civitaveccia, two days in Rome and two in Pompei before getting a ferry from Bari to Dubrovnik- 3 days in Dubrovnik before riding up the Adriatic coats to Porec for a week on a campsite I've been to a few times before. I've given myself ten days to get back but not sure on the route yet, will cobble it together no the way though.

Yes, you do get quiet moments but then I read a lot. I have found that on the whole Europeans don't see single men as sexual deviants, unless you are one , so if you make the effort to speak to people then you'll always find something to do of an evening if you want to, by the same thinking though if I do get bored I'll just move on.

I did have a couple of likely candidates for going with me ( ) but by the time you get them kitted up the cost becomes prohibitive.

Anyway, this is 24 days solo so no popping down the local if you fancy company. If you want it you've got to go out and meet people.

I'll keep you all updated on how it pans out - I might just get bored and come home after ten days.

[scottbeard]

Not quite how I would term it but I sympathise with the sentiment. It actually puts me off parenthood, the fact that it takes so much of your potential to achieve other things from you. Animals do it, it's the default, it's not an impressive feat or something to be admired. There are so many other things to do, see the world, invent something, build a business, do something for your local community, so much more to do. Kids take 20 years+ from you, there's frankly so many better ways to spend your precious time that just being yet another parent.

Physically having kids is not impressive, but bringing up decent kids is.

Perhaps when you're old, and being treated by doctors 30 years younger than yourself, you may at last admire the fact that someone else brought up intelligent and caring children.

[Unexpected]

Perhaps when you're old, and being treated by doctors 30 years younger than yourself, you may at last admire the fact that someone else brought up intelligent and caring children.

And not at all doing it for the money and status

[Englebert]

Physically having kids is not impressive, but bringing up decent kids is.

Perhaps when you're old, and being treated by doctors 30 years younger than yourself, you may at last admire the fact that someone else brought up intelligent and caring children.

A pointless post, if I may say so.

[Guest eight]

Hey, you talked to me. Your my best friend now, did you know that? I love you.

Are you by any chance a dog?

[PopGun]

Very true. I always warn my friends who consider becoming house husbands of this aspect of female psychology. I will also be warning my sons about the connecting with your feelings, being sensitive trap. Once I understood how much bs that stuff was, my romantic relationships (as opposed to friendships) with females improved immeasurably.

A TV interview I saw with a couple the better part of 20 years ago burnt an understanding of this into my mind. Husband was a real man's man - been a miner and he lost his job when the pit shut. Wife became the main breadwinner, and she basically said that she lost respect for him and stopped putting out. I doubt their marriage lasted, which was sad given they had 3 or 4 kids iirc.

It doesn't have to be as huge as becoming a house husband; even having a hiccup in your career or being temporarily unemployed is enough for a lot of women to lose respect. In my younger days, I had a couple of hiccups in my career before getting back on track and each time the woman went as well as the job. You could see the cogs turning. Both times the set back turned out to be a precursor to a leap forward. Both times, once "success" was back on the table, the women concerned started "showing regret" and came sniffing around again. Both of them were alleged "feminists." The strange thing is that I don't think they quite understood themselves why their feelings had changed. It makes one dreadfully cynical, and much more careful/choosy. Thank god I didn't have kids or significant assets at the time.

Yes all the girls love man stink, hairy backs, bear bellys and get damp gussets thinking of Gene Hunt...

If my misses decides to dump me because she got tired of earning £10k a year more than me, she'd be doing me a favour. Fortunately I made sure she wasn't some brainwashed harpy before taking the plunge, so I should be ok.

[cybernoid]

Perhaps when you're old, and being treated by doctors 30 years younger than yourself, you may at last admire the fact that someone else brought up intelligent and caring children.

There's little to be admired about not thinking it through, not having enough imagination or work ethic to do something better, failure to plan or using faulty contraception. But I'll be pleased they did sure, better for me than them though I would imagine. Thanks!

Slightly more seriously, different people want to do different things with their lives. Im not sure that many parents actually really gave it or the alternatives proper thought, but if they did and still decided that is what they wanted then good for them. We don't all want the same things out of life.

However, there are those (I suspect the majority) who did it without much in the way of thought, some mistakenly of course and that can happen to any of us. But it grates when these sorts waffle on about how great it is, when no-one within earshot has shown the slightest interest in hearing about it. They seem to me to be trying to convince themselves that they haven't flushed 20 years down the pan, and no sleep, constant worry, aggravation and no peace is precisely what they wanted all along. You look at their faces and there is real pain. Not for me! But you go ahead. And while you're at it, why not get a massive mortgage! Fun times.

Edited April 3, 2012 by cybernoid

[PopGun]

There's little to be admired about not thinking it through, not having enough imagination or work ethic to do something better, failure to plan or using faulty contraception. But I'll be pleased they did sure, better for me than them though I would imagine. Thanks!

Slightly more seriously, different people want to do different things with their lives. Im not sure that many parents actually really gave it or the alternatives proper thought, but if they did and still decided that is what they wanted then good for them. We don't all want the same things out of life.

However, there are those (I suspect the majority) who did it without much in the way of thought, some mistakenly of course and that can happen to any of us. But it grates when these sorts waffle on about how great it is, when no-one within earshot has shown the slightest interest in hearing about it. They seem to me to be trying to convince themselves that they haven't flushed 20 years down the pan, and no sleep, constant worry, aggravation and no peace is precisely what they wanted all along. You look at their faces and there is real pain. Not for me! But you go ahead. And while you're at it, why not get a massive mortgage! Fun times.

It seems everyone is having or have children at the moment. Precious few actually planned this lifestyle choice though. I get nervous saying congratualtions these days.

[winkie]

It seems everyone is having or have children at the moment. Precious few actually planned this lifestyle choice though. I get nervous saying congratualtions these days.

That is what happens when people run out of other viable life choices.....

[2010buyer]

Has anyone ever been on holiday by themselves? Not travelling. Thats doesnt count. I mean a package holiday on your annual two weeks from work.

I would think that would be very awkward.

Not everyone takes a package holiday you know. What you don't realise if you aren't single is that there is a whole holiday industry that caters for people not going away with kids. You can go to adult only Mark Warner sites, take a lifestyle holiday such as yoga, painting, hiking, diving or drop into the backpacker thing and chill out in Asia or S America for a couple of weeks. Or you can go on holiday with friends whether they have kids or not. I'd happily take a holiday with my goddaughter and family even though I have no desire to have children of my own. Or you can visit friends or family in other countries.

[MrBushy]

What an achievment, busting my nuts up some bird.

Actually, I get the impression that most posters on this thread would consider that a highlight, yes.

What a truly insightful critique of parenthood this thread is.

Shame most of the contributors haven't actually had any.

FFS.

['Bart']

Has anyone ever been on holiday by themselves? Not travelling. Thats doesnt count. I mean a package holiday on your annual two weeks from work.

I haven't been away on holiday for 32 years. I think I'm a bit out of the habit by now.

I wouldn't fancy going on my own though.

There's the prospect of a holiday in France next year though (with friends). More than a couple of days without working? That's going to take some getting used to. I may end up going home early!

[Unexpected]

Actually, I get the impression that most posters on this thread would consider that a highlight, yes.

What a truly insightful critique of parenthood this thread is.

Shame most of the contributors haven't actually had any.

FFS.

There is nothing more annoying than people who validate themselves simply by the fact that they had/have kids. Sure treat it as an add on but it does not make you entitled to anything. And yes you will become more boring to others in the process.

[thod]

There is nothing more annoying than people who validate themselves simply by the fact that they had/have kids. Sure treat it as an add on but it does not make you entitled to anything. And yes you will become more boring to others in the process.

The women are the worst. They have nothing to talk about except the size of little Jonnies poop. Boring? it's like talking to a tree. Not one word comes out that is not banal. No funny stories to recount, no interesting viewpoints. That's the problem with kids. They lock down your life into a domestic routine in which nothing ever happens. At the base of their minds parents understand this. Thus they try to compensate by claiming that having kids somehow in itself makes them better people. They secretly love to hear the stories of their single friends because they have none of their own.

[principa]

The women are the worst. They have nothing to talk about except the size of little Jonnies poop. Boring? it's like talking to a tree. Not one word comes out that is not banal. No funny stories to recount, no interesting viewpoints. That's the problem with kids. They lock down your life into a domestic routine in which nothing ever happens. At the base of their minds parents understand this. Thus they try to compensate by claiming that having kids somehow in itself makes them better people. They secretly love to hear the stories of their single friends because they have none of their own.

BS. Having children is hard-wired into us and transgresses all of the modern preoccupations which arise from our current 21st century mindset and culture. Having children "validates someone's existence" just as much as being born or dying does. In fact I would say it is the most significant thing someone can do in their life and that until you have had them you do not fully exist.

[Austin Allegro]

Having lived alone (ie, in my own flat, not with flatmates) for 12 years, and having been engaged and shacked up for a year, perhaps I'm not able to give much insight, but here's my 2p worth:

Advantages of living alone:

Can do what you want, when you want

Can have all the furniture etc, tidyness levels, music, tv progs completely to your taste

Don't have to worry about another person, where they are, what they're doing etc

Occasional hook ups with some new girl

Disadvantages

Can't really think of any. The lack of regular sex can be a bit tedious but it wasn't the end of the world. Sometimes in the evenings after a rough day at work it could be a bit depressing, but most of the time was fine.

Advantages of living with someone

Big financial savings

Companionship/regular sex (haha we hope)

Mutual support and help

Disadvantages

I'm obsessively tidy, she's not, so a bit of friction there.

Having to do everything via mutual consent is a bit tedious sometimes.

On the subject of being a man's man and whether women like it, I'll say this. Most women in my experience SAY they want a man to lead them and be in control, but this is a kind of rape fantasy; they only want the man to be in control when they WANT him to be in control, so he's not really in control at all. The trick is knowing when to be more controlling/authoritative and when to be more soppy/caring etc. If I knew how to do that, I'd write a book and become a millionaire...

[thod]

BS. Having children is hard-wired into us and transgresses all of the modern preoccupations which arise from our current 21st century mindset and culture. Having children "validates someone's existence" just as much as being born or dying does. In fact I would say it is the most significant thing someone can do in their life and that until you have had them you do not fully exist.

You refer to validation. This can come through rising to high office, making lots of money, penetrating lots of vaginas, or having kids. My post referenced how parenthood changed personality. Your change of topic illustrates my point well. Whatever someone is doing, whatever station they hold, they will seek to justify it. Yet all external things are transient and in then end there is only yourself and your attempts to be at peace with that.

What you call hard-wired is certainly different between the genders. Many, many men would be content with impregnating a series of women whilst never seeing the resulting offspring. The hard-wired instinct is to impregnate not to have something to nurture.

[worried1]

Not quite how I would term it but I sympathise with the sentiment. It actually puts me off parenthood, the fact that it takes so much of your potential to achieve other things from you. Animals do it, it's the default, it's not an impressive feat or something to be admired. There are so many other things to do, see the world, invent something, build a business, do something for your local community, so much more to do. Kids take 20 years+ from you, there's frankly so many better ways to spend your precious time that just being yet another parent.

I agree. As I have gone through my early 30s, most of my friends have become parents. The problem is that they tend to become only parents, with virtually everything else falling by the wayside. It suits me quite well as a friend because although I see them less often when we do go out we tend to have a bit of a blast because it will be the only time that they have got away from the kids that month.

It has certainly made me think twice about having kids. A couple of years ago, I would definitely have said I would want kids, but it now appears that was really just because it is the automatic thing to do.

All of my friends that are parents have said that it is the single best thing they have done and I am sure it is massively rewarding, but it does seem to come at the expense of everything else.

At the moment we have quite a nice lifestyle fuelled by a reasonable income - plenty of holidays, going out, saving and no problems with paying the day to day bills. If we became parents, our income would halve (either by losing one salary, or by paying out £1k a week for nursery bills) and other expenses would rocket (need bigger house, car, food bills etc).We would also become only parents.

The way I see it, having kids would be a bit like buying an overpriced house for us - I am sure we'd get the rewards, but it would put us under a lot of pressure financially in that we'd need to hang onto jobs rather than being able to cope with a period of unemployment as we could at the moment. It is also a 20-30 year commitment that we couldn't exactly get out of if we wanted to.

Then again, it is probably not a decision that you can really rationalise like that.