Australia Faces Its Demons

[thecrashingisles]

Hmm. Without being there, I would suspect they were trying to judge the reaction. The appropriate response is to laugh and give back as good as you get. Trying to see if she was a "good chap" or whether she takes herself too seriously. I'm not, by the way, saying it was just playful banter. It's about judging someone's character.

I could of course be wrong on this, but having been an Australian all my life, have seen this behaviour before. Having lived in the UK for 17 years, also know that it is alien to many brits.

I think you're probably right. I was in Melbourne for the Commonwealth Games in 2005 and was initially taken aback when one of the volunteers, upon hearing my accent, made some dig about a recent rugby defeat. I didn't know how to react so I just said that it didn't bother me. I realised later that I should have just come back with a joke about the cricket as England had just beaten Australia, but I was too late.

[bagsos]

This is quite a recent happening. 5 or 10 years ago I used to blush at how cheap the food was relative to the UK. I can remember taking friends out to dinner and the bill for three including wine was less than what one would pay for one person without wine in the UK. Sadly, this is no longer the case. Oz was a lovely country, but it is being destroyed by noveau riche chancers and corrupt government. Sort of like almost everywhere else in the world.

I was in Oz at the back end of last year and it still seemed cheap to me. Steak and chips for A$10 (back then a shade over £4) in a pub with harbour views in Sydney, and as good a steak as you would find in 90% of restaurants in the UK. Food is even cheaper in Adelaide - my partner and I had one of the best chinese meals we have ever had there and it worked out at A$70 or A$80 (had to pay cash and can't remember which) incl. wine.

[hobdoll]

I was in Oz at the back end of last year and it still seemed cheap to me. Steak and chips for A$10 (back then a shade over £4) in a pub with harbour views in Sydney, and as good a steak as you would find in 90% of restaurants in the UK. Food is even cheaper in Adelaide - my partner and I had one of the best chinese meals we have ever had there and it worked out at A$70 or A$80 (had to pay cash and can't remember which) incl. wine.

Spot on. Thats what you will pay for a decent meal for two in Adelaide with wine or beer. Fantastic value.

[HAIR BEAR CRUNCH]

YEAH LOVELY, WHATS THE NAME OF THE ROO SUSHI PLACE IN REDFERN CALLED AGAIN

[Patfig]

I was in Oz at the back end of last year and it still seemed cheap to me. Steak and chips for A$10 (back then a shade over £4) in a pub with harbour views in Sydney, and as good a steak as you would find in 90% of restaurants in the UK. Food is even cheaper in Adelaide - my partner and I had one of the best chinese meals we have ever had there and it worked out at A$70 or A$80 (had to pay cash and can't remember which) incl. wine.

No offence, but converting prices back to pounds is a waste of time. The majority of people in Australia earn Australian dollars and really cant be arsed converting to sterling.

[Bardon]

Well it definetly is interesting in the new starter house market Devine are advertsing a new house and land package 4/2/2 210 m2 house no deposit they take your first home owenr grant and you lock in for $365 per week for the first five year. I just rented a new house 4/2/2 for $365 per week why wouldn't the tenants just buy one instead ? got emailed some deals today 4/2/2 only costing $75 (based on 104% finance) a week holding costs this to me is low risk, but wait theres more, the package includes unemployment insurance and the premium is tax deductible I laughed when I read that bit. A bit of rent creep and it will be neutral before you know it a bit more and it becomes tax problem not a bad place to be.

For those that say you cant get sea views I just built a new one on a 1000m2 block for $392k in Ningi a growth corridor north of Brisbane. The thing about buyers markets is that run of the mill investors dont see it that way the press is all doom and gloom property is a no no prices are down johnny come lately have been caught out, only time will tell if this is truly a buyers market but my money is on the market doing what it always has cant see any reason for things to change from the norm.

Food I love the food out here I also think the quality and quantity is premium eg last week Matilda Bay restauraunt Perth roast duck, Gauchos in Adleaide 800g Grass Fed T bone lovely Barrosa Chiraz it was that nice I went for lunch the next day Crayfish and rocket salad with my favourite double expresso with fresh cream.....indulged in three thye were tha tgood a real nice bubbly waitress and I didn't even tip. I also think the glasses are nice and clean and the tablecloths are better here, always disappointed with the lack of table cloths, grimy table surfaces and small unpolished wine galsses that you quite often get in the UK.

[HAIR BEAR CRUNCH]

IVE LIVED/WORKED ALL OVER THE WORLD AND ALL SAID AND DONE THE UK IS EXPENSIVE AND LOW QUALITY WHEN IT COMES TO FOOD , DRINKS SERVICE. IM BRITISH AND US BRITS ARE GETTIN IT HUGE IN THE BACKDOOR FROM THE WHOLE WORNOUT TIRED RIP OFF SET UP. GET THAT MISERABLE JOCK BACK NORTH OF THE BORDER LIVELY

[Bardon]

On the global front I have been a round a bit myself and when it comes to eating out my pecking order on quality, value, service, nutrition and facilities is

NYC

Tokyo

OZ

London (but very expensive)

[bagsos]

No offence, but converting prices back to pounds is a waste of time. The majority of people in Australia earn Australian dollars and really cant be arsed converting to sterling.

True if you live there; I don't, I live in the UK and earn sterling, which is why it is my primary reference point from a currency perspective.

And when I was thinking that I would like to relocate to Aus (it would have to be Sydney as not many jobs outside there in my line of work) I checked out likely local wages. They are about 2/3 of what you earn in the UK in my line of work (my partner reckons half in Adelaide in her line of work, probably more in Sydney) which puts the prices (ignoring differences in quality) on an affordability measure in Sydney at about the same as a UK provincial town for someone on London wages. If you then factor in the superiority of the food sold in most Aussie restaurants (not all - we did have a couple of crapola meals there), then eating out there is far, far better value than the UK.

[HAIR BEAR CRUNCH]

On the global front I have been a round a bit myself and when it comes to eating out my pecking order on quality, value, service, nutrition and facilities is

NYC

Tokyo

OZ

London (but very expensive)

I HAVE LIVED IN THOSE CITIES / OZ IN THAT ORDER. YES LONDON IS NOW A TRUE GASTRO CAPITAL, BUT AS U SAY U HAVE TO PAY UP OR SEEK OUT THE PLACES WHICH CARE ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING.. BUT DONT YOU FIND IF YOU GO IN TO A PUB/ BAR THE DRINKS ARE SO TIRED AND WEAK , WITH A LITTLE PLINKYPLONKY ICE CUB IN A CRAP LITTLE GLASS FOR TOP MONEY. IN TOKYO IN THE AZABU/ROPPONGI/ GINZA THEY CAN MAKE A DRINK OK ITS EXPENSIVE BUT ITS A DIFFERENT KETTLE OF FISH. CIAO FRIEND

[mattyboy1973]

Well it definetly is interesting in the new starter house market Devine are advertsing a new house and land package 4/2/2 210 m2 house no deposit they take your first home owenr grant and you lock in for $365 per week for the first five year. I just rented a new house 4/2/2 for $365 per week why wouldn't the tenants just buy one instead ?

because its likely to halve in value over the next 3 years?

[Bardon]

because its likely to halve in value over the next 3 years?

I guess theres a first time for everything, 50% thats a big call the uber bears are 30% and thats on the median not starter homes.

[Bardon]

I HAVE LIVED IN THOSE CITIES / OZ IN THAT ORDER. YES LONDON IS NOW A TRUE GASTRO CAPITAL, BUT AS U SAY U HAVE TO PAY UP OR SEEK OUT THE PLACES WHICH CARE ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING.. BUT DONT YOU FIND IF YOU GO IN TO A PUB/ BAR THE DRINKS ARE SO TIRED AND WEAK , WITH A LITTLE PLINKYPLONKY ICE CUB IN A CRAP LITTLE GLASS FOR TOP MONEY. IN TOKYO IN THE AZABU/ROPPONGI/ GINZA THEY CAN MAKE A DRINK OK ITS EXPENSIVE BUT ITS A DIFFERENT KETTLE OF FISH. CIAO FRIEND

Dont wnat to get into a Brit bashing thing but since you asked I think teh whole presentation aspect is most of the time just not there, crappy smudgy glasses, warm mixers, ice goes in last and sometimes overflows the glass,

and lets not forget the glorious BYO now thats hard to beat I think a lot of Uk restaurants make their dough marking up standard drinks the food is just to get you in.

I'm beginng to sound like a whinging pom...enough said

I know what restaurant I will be eating in Byron Bay tommorow night its fairly basic but just one of the good ones with beach views and juicy steak...the kids get looked after as well

[Si1]

I think that is already happening, Perth formerly the home of the miners earning fantastic wages is now suffering as mines go bust, and miners are laid off. A friend of mine has recently returned from Perth as there are very few jobs around.

I meant China to decouple - but upwards - if its industry and commerce adjusts to serve its own needs instead of america/europe. Aus' natural resources would boom off this.

[Si1]

having said that:

http://business.smh.com.au/business/chinas...bm.html?page=-1

Excess Capacity

“There’s an extraordinary amount of excess capacity and there’s no way the world can absorb the amount of goods they are set up to produce,” said Atkinson.

Growth may be 5%, according to Royal Bank of Scotland Plc. Morgan Stanley estimates 5.5%. The World Bank forecasts 7.5%. Any of those numbers would be the weakest since 1990.

Still, there are signs of a revival.

Bank lending and money supply jumped more than economists estimated in December as money flowed into infrastructure projects. Property transactions climbed in November and December in Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen, according to JPMorgan Chase & Co.

[UncleKev]

Its very hard to compare countries. That is probably why I have moved back and forth between NZ, Australia and the UK on several occasions at great expense. Last major relocation from Reading to Brisbane involved shifting nearly 50 tea-chests of stuff that we could not bring ourselves to through out. The furniture that we couldnt sell was smashed to bits with a sledge hammer thrown into a skip. We brought three teenagers a cat and a dog. A couple of years later we were on the move again to Canberra (wife could not handle the humidity of Brisbane). I find something good in all the places I live. The main thing I miss about England is the convenience of heading across the ditch for shopping expeditions in France. Cant really do that here. The isolation is the biggest down side to living in Oz.

UK looks like it is going to be very badly hit. How much food is produced in the UK and how much is imported? I would hate to be unemployed with time on my hands in a cold semi-detached without even the money to have the heating on in a cold winter, and queing up for a meagre allocation of rationed food. There are a lot of people living on that small island who need to be fed with a shrinking pound. Also some of the newer arrivals come from places where it is the done thing to kill people from other tribes or ethnic groups if there are food shortages and your own family are hungry.

Here in Canberra, I can grow enough of my own fresh fruit and vegies to live on, and can spend my new leisure time mucking around in the local lakes and rivers in my new kayak. Might have to learn how to fish. Also just bought a second hand set of golf clubs (havent played for 15 years but should pick it up again), and I have several bikes in the garage to use to get around if I cant afford to fill the tank in the car.

There should not be too much social unrest here in a crunch because Aussies are a pretty laid back bunch and the populations are not nearly as densely packed as in European cities. Not many ghettos in he Oz cities like you have in London and other cities there. Closest we have to a ghetto is the Lakemba area in Sydney, and even that is tame compared to some areas I lived in London.

I just have a horrible feelin that if the chips are down in the UK, and basic commodities need to be rationed, a lot of rabble rousers in the ethnic ghettos will be able to stir up trouble and claim that other groups are being favoured. I have seen some of these well organised demonstations (riots?) by well organised religions groups and the useless English police struggling to contain them. I would not want to be living in an over-crowded, multi-cultural English city if things kick off and the SHTF.

The best organised ethnic groups will comandeer lorries and take food and other basic items to be shared amongst their own community.

[Johnny Cash]

I HAVE LIVED IN THOSE CITIES / OZ IN THAT ORDER. YES LONDON IS NOW A TRUE GASTRO CAPITAL, BUT AS U SAY U HAVE TO PAY UP OR SEEK OUT THE PLACES WHICH CARE ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING.. BUT DONT YOU FIND IF YOU GO IN TO A PUB/ BAR THE DRINKS ARE SO TIRED AND WEAK , WITH A LITTLE PLINKYPLONKY ICE CUB IN A CRAP LITTLE GLASS FOR TOP MONEY. IN TOKYO IN THE AZABU/ROPPONGI/ GINZA THEY CAN MAKE A DRINK OK ITS EXPENSIVE BUT ITS A DIFFERENT KETTLE OF FISH. CIAO FRIEND

Please turn off your caps lock button.

[Johnny Cash]

Matilda Bay restauraunt Perth roast duck, Gauchos in Adleaide 800g Grass Fed T bone lovely Barrosa Chiraz it was that nice I went for lunch the next day Crayfish and rocket salad with my favourite double expresso with fresh cream.....indulged in three thye were tha tgood a real nice bubbly waitress and I didn't even tip. I also think the glasses are nice and clean and the tablecloths are better here, always disappointed with the lack of table cloths, grimy table surfaces and small unpolished wine galsses that you quite often get in the UK.

So why didnt you show your appreciation with a tip then?

The waitress didn't have to be "nice and bubbly" and the fact that the table cloths are clean and the glasses nice and clean are probably due to her pride in her work and attention to detail.

[bagsos]

So why didnt you show your appreciation with a tip then?

The waitress didn't have to be "nice and bubbly" and the fact that the table cloths are clean and the glasses nice and clean are probably due to her pride in her work and attention to detail.

Its not the tradition in Oz; the tradition is for the restaurant owner to pay his employees properly rather than hoping that his customers will do the job for him. As it was in the UK up to about 20 years ago (or perhaps I ddin't tip back then because I had no cash?). Anyway, I know which tradition I prefer.

[Bardon]

So why didnt you show your appreciation with a tip then?

The waitress didn't have to be "nice and bubbly" and the fact that the table cloths are clean and the glasses nice and clean are probably due to her pride in her work and attention to detail.

sometimes I do sometimes I dont the point is that there isn't an expectation that you must tip. The restaurant standard was definitely a team effort and not only down to her but as you say her work pride definitely shone through

[HAIR BEAR CRUNCH]

Please turn off your caps lock button.

jonny cash blo me

[south_side_sceptic]

Any views on the wisdom or otherwise of shifting my sterling into an AUS$ bank account? Ideally I'd shift to US$ but for practical reasons AUS$ is likely to be easier.

[Bardon]

This ones got me interested was in it today very good condition, although in need of cosmetic work including bathrooms kitchens etc, real good 1920's colonial they dont make them like this anymore, horizontal tongue and groove, brick stumps, 14ft ceilings, two stone chimmneys, check the views, there is a creek at the bottom of the valley, 10 mins to Bangalow, buy, hold, move in and do it up in 10 years time, waiting on the comps coming back,

Australian Financail Review this weekend in property outlook for 09 report pretty bearish about NSW says that northern NSW is the only growth area, the rents here are mcuh much stronger than I thought. And the food lets not go there....

Wife likes it to and it pulls in 700 rent as is now not a bad lifestyle option at all,

http://www.bangalowrealestate.com.au/results.aspx?class=1

Property No: 1234989

BANGALOW - *469* FRIDAY HUT Road

Better than worrying about the coming depression

Edited January 24, 2009 by Bardon

[steve99]

Ah, thanks!

Yes, quite, horrible things, those 'pokies'!

Goverment sponsored apparently. Big cash handouts from the goverment just before xmas to penioners($1000 each'ish) and child owners etc. Anyway stats came in from the take (losses) on the gambling machines and december had its biggest taking ever.

[Holy-faxed]

Some things about Oz (from a Scot that emigrated here 7 years ago)

1. Don't convert things to pounds, it's a very fast way to diminish your savings - yes that car is only 14k when converted and that's much cheaper than blighty - but it's still a 30+k car and you have to add stamp duty.

2. If you don't like the place, p*ss of back home again - there are plenty of boomerang brits that did that and then came back out when they realised UK through rose tinted glasses is different from living there.

3. It's January, the temperature is in the 30's or 40's, get air-con and enjoy it - it's -4 and raining in Britain.

4. The crap aussie lager drank in the UK is brewed under licence and is a brand like fosters and XXXX, we drink good beer like Coopers, Little Creatures and Crownies, no-one drinks Emu

5. We drive different cars, have a different political system, the cops have guns, we have super not pensions, drink different beer, play footy with a Sherrin, have different health care, our banks charge transaction fees and when we swim in the Ocean it's warm and has sharks - apart from a similar language what's the same is Britain? Don'tmake the comparisons....If you like Britain stay there, or go back there.

6. No-one expects to buy decent meat or bread in a supermarket - go to a butchers or a bakery

Report today is that Perth unemployment has just sky-rocketed from 2.7% to 3% national average is 4.5% - but you know what - take a break over summer, go for a swim or a surf, save the electrical bill by going to air-con shopping centres if you are too hot or by cooking your snags on the free outdoor BBQ by the fantastic beaches and laugh at all the pale blue guys turning lobster pink coz they've forgotten the factor 30.

Girt by sea, and loving every second of it.!