Oxford

[othello]

I don't see anything other than a declining market overall in the OX2 area (North Oxford).

Average prices for OX2

The Berkley homes development seems even worse overall:

Waterways

Not surprising as it was completely overpriced. Still as most of Oxford is a dump, it's perhaps not surprising that prices were pushed up in Summertown.

Edited December 8, 2006 by othello

[Wad]

I don't see anything other than a declining market overall in the OX2 area (North Oxford).

Average prices for OX2

The Berkley homes development seems even worse overall:

Waterways

Not surprising as it was completely overpriced. Still as most of Oxford is a dump, it's perhaps not surprising that prices were pushed up in Summertown.

I come into Oxford fairly regularly and I notice that the Queens Gate development of 16 x 2 bed flats at the top end of the Woodstock Road (North Oxford in OX2 postcode) near the BP garage has been showing 'over 50% sold' for about a year now. Fact is that about two weeks ago a whole flock of letting signs appeared (about 6 I think) so that is obviously the developer. I notice that some are being let on 'short let' terms. In other words more or less renting out on a week-to-week basis.

On the other hand sales of family sized houses in that area are as strong as ever with absolutely staggering prices being paid in the Staverton Road area £1.4 million is typical for something that needs some work:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-132...=1&tr_t=buy

Mainly people from London coming up for the very good state and private schools nearby I think pushing the family sized house prices. Larger family property is still in very short supply. However, looks like two bedrooms flat BTL type property is struggling as there is over supply of Berkeley homes flats nearby in Waterways both to rent and buy.

On the other hand in the rental market for family homes a very nice new build 5 bed has struggled for ages to rent out at £3,000 p.c.m even though it is now showing Let Agreed.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-503...1&tr_t=rent

Seems like families are willing to pay way over the odds if they can get a mortgage or release equity from a London home sale but not willing to take £3,000 out of current earnings for rent. But then rent is dead money! Bizarre behaviour.

[Bear Goggles]

I am thinking of buying a house in South Park/St Clement's. You can easily walk into city centre from there, and it is close to all of South Park, Headington Hill Park, and the Angel Greyhound Meadow. Also easy access to the hospitals and to Brookes. And did I mention being engulfed by Oxford University with the new Islamic Centre to the East. And Cowley Road nearby undergoing redevelopment and gentrification. Am I missing something or is St Clement's Oxford's next hotspot?

I thought I should chip in on this thread even though the post is from April and the poster's probably bought by now, this is quite relavent to me.

We live in exactly this area and it may be an HPI "hot spot", there is definitely the perception that the area is "up and coming". The reality howerver is that the area is declining WRT to being a nice place to live.

My street has seen an exodus of families over the last few years mainly due to the increase in petty crime. Cars vandalised, broken bottles etc. As families have moved out the houses have been bought up by the BTL brigade and the street is almost exclusively HMOs now. As a result parking is now impossible due to the increase in occupants per household and broken glass, kebabs, vomit and general binge drinking detritus now adorn the street. All this has happened over the last 3 or 4 years.

A friend on the street had been living in fear since her house was broken into last year while she was in, she has finally sold up (to a BTLer) and has got out. Reently a letter recently came through our door warning us about the syringes that are being thrown into the gardens of those that live on the Cowley road end. Earlier this year we were burgled and within a week 2 other houses on the street were done, now we too want out.

Add to this the fact that my partner and I are starting a family and there are no decent schools in this area, it seems pointless to stay. We shall be beginning to look, probably in the Headington/ Marston areas over the next couple of months for both rent and buy options so I may start to contribute to this thread more regularly.

[Guest X-QUORK]

Good luck with that Bear Goggles, it sounds like you've been having a tough time of it. I do like that part of town though, especially the Angel & Greyhound boozer and the Hi-Fi shop...lots of fun for us boys (well, back in the days when I had some money to throw around).

My father-in-law lives up in Headington near the new hospital development, it's a very nice bit of suburbia, but damned expensive I expect.

I love Oxford, but we live up near Banbury where prices are considerably cheaper.

[othello]

I come into Oxford fairly regularly and I notice that the Queens Gate development of 16 x 2 bed flats at the top end of the Woodstock Road (North Oxford in OX2 postcode) near the BP garage has been showing 'over 50% sold' for about a year now. Fact is that about two weeks ago a whole flock of letting signs appeared (about 6 I think) so that is obviously the developer. I notice that some are being let on 'short let' terms. In other words more or less renting out on a week-to-week basis.

On the other hand sales of family sized houses in that area are as strong as ever with absolutely staggering prices being paid in the Staverton Road area £1.4 million is typical for something that needs some work:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-132...=1&tr_t=buy

Mainly people from London coming up for the very good state and private schools nearby I think pushing the family sized house prices. Larger family property is still in very short supply. However, looks like two bedrooms flat BTL type property is struggling as there is over supply of Berkeley homes flats nearby in Waterways both to rent and buy.

On the other hand in the rental market for family homes a very nice new build 5 bed has struggled for ages to rent out at £3,000 p.c.m even though it is now showing Let Agreed.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-503...1&tr_t=rent

Seems like families are willing to pay way over the odds if they can get a mortgage or release equity from a London home sale but not willing to take £3,000 out of current earnings for rent. But then rent is dead money! Bizarre behaviour.

Yes, I've seen the same block - 'over 50%' sold for atl least 6 months now. No doubt overpriced - but not difficult given the location... on top of a busy main road/roundabout. I think flats are not in demand but as you say, family homes still are. I presume price falls will reflect the variances in diferent sectors of the market - ie. flats and low-grade properties, snapped up by BTLs, will be most vulnerable...

[maffo in oxford]

Any news on these developments? I've notice the one on the Cowley road (vaaaast number of two bed shoeboxes) still has huge numbers of empty flats.

The ones that are occupied seem to be tennants (ie a lot of Polish & eastern europeans).

Potential BTL disaster?!

[renter]

Dont know about Cowley Road, but the number of houses for sale in North Oxford (OX2) seem to be very very low. There is always a dearth of supply, but family houses for sale at the moment can be counted on one hand. Not doubt more prices rises to be expected, above the already silly prices!

[Oxoniensis]

Dont know about Cowley Road, but the number of houses for sale in North Oxford (OX2) seem to be very very low. There is always a dearth of supply, but family houses for sale at the moment can be counted on one hand. Not doubt more prices rises to be expected, above the already silly prices!

Forget OX2, this is the case all over central Oxford (OX1-4). I've been looking for four bedroom+ semi-detached old-build for over a year now and my impression is that they've increased in price quite considerably over that time. Seems like there's now nothing under around £450000!

Edited February 25, 2007 by Oxoniensis

[maffo in oxford]

Forget OX2, this is the case all over central Oxford (OX1-4). I've been looking for four bedroom+ semi-detached old-build for over a year now and my impression is that they've increased in price quite considerably over that time. Seems like there's now nothing under around £450000!

I expect most have been converted to HMO's, and are full of students!.

Or owned by the London commuter brigade....

Edited February 25, 2007 by maffo in oxford

[Oxoniensis]

I expect most have been converted to HMO's, and are full of students!.

Or owned by the London commuter brigade....

Or maybe people aren't selling because they won't find another/will be priced out as soon as. Does anyone have any idea of what house prices in Oxford are actually doing, area by area?

[Guest X-QUORK]

Use this link to find property prices:

UpMyStreet - OX1 flats

OX1 flats are in a downturn, but everything else looks in rude health unfortunately.

[othello]

Use this link to find property prices:

UpMyStreet - OX1 flats

OX1 flats are in a downturn, but everything else looks in rude health unfortunately.

Not really. Take OX2 (Summertown - most desirable area in Oxford). Flats are looking dodgy and detached are down, but this is the chart for semis.

http://www.upmystreet.com/property/prices/...ched/l/ox2.html

[Bear Goggles]

Not really. Take OX2 (Summertown - most desirable area in Oxford). Flats are looking dodgy and detached are down, but this is the chart for semis.

http://www.upmystreet.com/property/prices/...ched/l/ox2.html

Interesting, but look at terraced, which I'd say the majority of houses in Summertown are!

http://www.upmystreet.com/property/prices/...aced/l/ox2.html

Anecdotally, we have some friends who are looking to buy in Summertown (kids approaching school age) and have recently watched a terraced family house they were interested in go on the market for £655k and sell after a bidding war for £725k

This kind of madness suggests Summertown is attracting the London City bonus boys, I don't think there is anywhere else that sort of monopoly money can be coming from.

Interestingly, it has convinced our friends to STR, because after doing the sums, renting in Summertown now seems like a bargain!

Such is the madness of the housing bubble!

[Bear Goggles]

Yes, I've seen the same block - 'over 50%' sold for atl least 6 months now. No doubt overpriced - but not difficult given the location... on top of a busy main road/roundabout. I think flats are not in demand but as you say, family homes still are. I presume price falls will reflect the variances in diferent sectors of the market - ie. flats and low-grade properties, snapped up by BTLs, will be most vulnerable...

Sat outside this block the other day in a traffic jam waiting to get off the ring road, still says '50% now sold'. I also noticed that the odd satillite dish and empty beer can have appeared on the balconies, alonside the obligatory 'To let' signs. Looks like these 'Luxury appartments' are not attacting the caliber of 'young professional' they were obviously aimed at!

Meanwhile, the few family homes not yet converted into HMOs soar ever upwards in price.

This housing bubble truly does suck. I really do hope these parasitic speculators lose everything! :angry:

[renter]

I've been look at the new houses on Waterways and Waterside. I think they currently offer much better value than Victorian streets around Summertown, but I beleive there is only a window of opportunity of 2 possibly 3 years to get one in North Oxford at a reaonable (relative!) price. My reasoning is there has been a massive increase in supply of new houses/flats in Waterways and Walton Manner (Lucy) over the past 2-3 years, which I think has depressed prices relative to Victorian stock. But now that there is unlikely to be any further increases in supply I think these new houses will start to catch up and can only increase in value much more. Views? Should I plump for a new as I can't afford the old.

[Bear Goggles]

I've been look at the new houses on Waterways and Waterside. I think they currently offer much better value than Victorian streets around Summertown, but I beleive there is only a window of opportunity of 2 possibly 3 years to get one in North Oxford at a reaonable (relative!) price. My reasoning is there has been a massive increase in supply of new houses/flats in Waterways and Walton Manner (Lucy) over the past 2-3 years, which I think has depressed prices relative to Victorian stock. But now that there is unlikely to be any further increases in supply I think these new houses will start to catch up and can only increase in value much more. Views? Should I plump for a new as I can't afford the old.

It all depends on what you think the wider market is going to do, if you think it's going to keep going ballistic forever then you'd better buy now before you miss the boat! In fact you'd better buy 2 or 3 more as BTLs.

Alternatively if you think there is going to be a crash/ correction then you probably want to steer well clear of new builds as they tend to decline much more in a downturn. I must say I don't think much of the waterways myself, it may be in North Oxford but it's well out of the way of any amenities, and as far as I can see has been mainly bought up by BTLers and retirees, but each to their own.

I agree Victorian houses are bad value for money, but you will always pay a premium for 'period charm'. The best value housing in Oxford is probably the 1950s (homes for heros) semis in either Marston or what estate agents refer to as 'Iffley borders'. They are completely unattractive from the outside but are well built, have decent sized rooms, garages and driveways and large gardens (if you're into that kind of thing) and those 2 areas are close to decent parts of town and don't have the critical mass of chavs that Cowley or Rose Hill do. It's Hobson's choice though really!

[Oxoniensis]

Would you really want to live in one of those Waterways new builds? I mean the rooms are too small, and so are the windows. And there are no cornices, bay windows, fire places, etc. Might as well live in a box. Things have really gone down hill since our friends the Victorians; they really need to re-start teaching our children Latin and Ancient Greek.

Sorry for sounding elitist

It all depends on what you think the wider market is going to do, if you think it's going to keep going ballistic forever then you'd better buy now before you miss the boat! In fact you'd better buy 2 or 3 more as BTLs.

Alternatively if you think there is going to be a crash/ correction then you probably want to steer well clear of new builds as they tend to decline much more in a downturn. I must say I don't think much of the waterways myself, it may be in North Oxford but it's well out of the way of any amenities, and as far as I can see has been mainly bought up by BTLers and retirees, but each to their own.

I agree Victorian houses are bad value for money, but you will always pay a premium for 'period charm'. The best value housing in Oxford is probably the 1950s (homes for heros) semis in either Marston or what estate agents refer to as 'Iffley borders'. They are completely unattractive from the outside but are well built, have decent sized rooms, garages and driveways and large gardens (if you're into that kind of thing) and those 2 areas are close to decent parts of town and don't have the critical mass of chavs that Cowley or Rose Hill do. It's Hobson's choice though really!

Edited March 13, 2007 by Oxoniensis

[RRR]

It all depends on what you think the wider market is going to do, if you think it's going to keep going ballistic forever then you'd better buy now before you miss the boat! In fact you'd better buy 2 or 3 more as BTLs.

Alternatively if you think there is going to be a crash/ correction then you probably want to steer well clear of new builds as they tend to decline much more in a downturn. I must say I don't think much of the waterways myself, it may be in North Oxford but it's well out of the way of any amenities, and as far as I can see has been mainly bought up by BTLers and retirees, but each to their own.

I agree Victorian houses are bad value for money, but you will always pay a premium for 'period charm'. The best value housing in Oxford is probably the 1950s (homes for heros) semis in either Marston or what estate agents refer to as 'Iffley borders'. They are completely unattractive from the outside but are well built, have decent sized rooms, garages and driveways and large gardens (if you're into that kind of thing) and those 2 areas are close to decent parts of town and don't have the critical mass of chavs that Cowley or Rose Hill do. It's Hobson's choice though really!

[RRR]

I don't know if I should be on here if I'm seen as "the enemy" but in reality I'm not. I'm a fairly small-scale property developer(mostly flat conversions now, improving and adding to rundown properties in the Oxford area) and for the past 10 years have been monitoring the local property market very closely. As I'm in constant contact with local agents and others in the business, including buyers, I might be able to provide some insights into how some people's minds work with regard to prices, areas, types of properties, etc.

I've read this thread with interest. Most of the comments I agree with. A couple of points I've picked up on recently: some people who know think Summertown is now virtually saturated with 2-bed flats so prices will be flattening out, local estate agents are still bullish even when they have no agenda (eg dealing with me), the vast majority of buyers still want period properties before other types, the first 300K proerty has just sold in Wolsey Road (Cutteslowe Estate!), and areas in Oxford are slightly fluid in that changes are still happening - (except for East Oxford, which has been apparently "up and coming" for the 25 years I've lived in Oxford! - it's not going to happen).

I'm happy to provide specific information about specific areas for those new to buying here. No agenda, I'm just happy to do so.

[Oxoniensis]

With regards to East Oxford, if you compare the Cowley Rd of 10 years ago with the Cowley Rd of today, it *is* fast up and coming... it's just that there was a long way to come.

I don't know if I should be on here if I'm seen as "the enemy" but in reality I'm not. I'm a fairly small-scale property developer(mostly flat conversions now, improving and adding to rundown properties in the Oxford area) and for the past 10 years have been monitoring the local property market very closely. As I'm in constant contact with local agents and others in the business, including buyers, I might be able to provide some insights into how some people's minds work with regard to prices, areas, types of properties, etc.

I've read this thread with interest. Most of the comments I agree with. A couple of points I've picked up on recently: some people who know think Summertown is now virtually saturated with 2-bed flats so prices will be flattening out, local estate agents are still bullish even when they have no agenda (eg dealing with me), the vast majority of buyers still want period properties before other types, the first 300K proerty has just sold in Wolsey Road (Cutteslowe Estate!), and areas in Oxford are slightly fluid in that changes are still happening - (except for East Oxford, which has been apparently "up and coming" for the 25 years I've lived in Oxford! - it's not going to happen).

I'm happy to provide specific information about specific areas for those new to buying here. No agenda, I'm just happy to do so.

[Wad]

A friend who lives in North Oxford told me that houses in Summertown are going 10% - 20% over asking at the moment because people are so desperate to get out of London for schools.

[Bear Goggles]

With regards to East Oxford, if you compare the Cowley Rd of 10 years ago with the Cowley Rd of today, it *is* fast up and coming... it's just that there was a long way to come.

I think of East Oxford like Hackney in London, victorian terraces prized by the middle classes go for mega bucks yet the majority of people in the area are poor so the schools are bad, crime is high and those high street kebab shops refuse to turn into trendy bistros - seen it all before!

[Bear Goggles]

A friend who lives in North Oxford told me that houses in Summertown are going 10% - 20% over asking at the moment because people are so desperate to get out of London for schools.

Update on friends STRing to rent in Summertown: They have been completely astonished by the amount and quality of property for rent in Summertown, how cheap it is in relation to buying and how the agents and landlords are bending over backwards to help them. You've got 2 toddlers and a cat? - No problem. You've got your own furniture and don't want any of my crap? I'll remove it. Don't like the rent? Make us an offer.

Contrasted with the attempted buying process, snotty agents informing them not to bother looking at house x unless they're willing to offer over asking, not returning calls and generally making you feel like time wasting scum for wanting to view more than one property before buying.

It paints a picture of a completely schizophrenic market.

[othello]

Would you really want to live in one of those Waterways new builds? I mean the rooms are too small, and so are the windows. And there are no cornices, bay windows, fire places, etc. Might as well live in a box. Things have really gone down hill since our friends the Victorians; they really need to re-start teaching our children Latin and Ancient Greek.

Sorry for sounding elitist

You're right. I rented a new 2 bed flat in the Waterways for a year (got the rent down to £995pcm - great yield) and it was horrbile. Small rooms, small windows, no character, basically a rabbit hutch. The area's quite pleasant but I can't see why it's so expensive.

[othello]

Update on friends STRing to rent in Summertown: They have been completely astonished by the amount and quality of property for rent in Summertown, how cheap it is in relation to buying and how the agents and landlords are bending over backwards to help them. You've got 2 toddlers and a cat? - No problem. You've got your own furniture and don't want any of my crap? I'll remove it. Don't like the rent? Make us an offer.

Contrasted with the attempted buying process, snotty agents informing them not to bother looking at house x unless they're willing to offer over asking, not returning calls and generally making you feel like time wasting scum for wanting to view more than one property before buying.

It paints a picture of a completely schizophrenic market.

Indeed. Rents are quite negotiable as I found out. Lots of similar BTL flats out there