What Exactly Is Bread?

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120038/George-Osbornes-takeaway-tax-provokes-furious-backlash-savouries-subject-VAT.html

Confusion over which 'hot' foods will be liable for VAT

Bread not subject to the 20 per cent rise

But bakers argue there is no exact definition of bread

George Osborne's budget has left the taxman scratching his head after it prompted HM Revenue and Customs to launch a public consultation to discover the exact definition of bread.

Last week the chancellor announced VAT of 20 per cent will be extended to all hot takeaway foods such as pasties and pies which are ‘above the ambient air temperature at the time they are provided to the customer’.

However, as bread is considered a basic food, it is not subject to VAT whether it is warmed in the oven or served cold.

But bakers have pointed out there is no exact definition of bread.

For example, is a croissant considered a type of bread? Or a hot-cross bun?

Brilliant.

At least HMRC can now have endless meetings at taxpayer expense deciding just what exactly bread is.

This could get very tricky because if bread is excluded aren't pizza bases bread?

[gf3]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120038/George-Osbornes-takeaway-tax-provokes-furious-backlash-savouries-subject-VAT.html

Brilliant.

At least HMRC can now have endless meetings at taxpayer expense deciding just what exactly bread is.

This could get very tricky because if bread is excluded aren't pizza bases bread?

So what happens if you buy a cold pie but there is free use of a microwave?

next time I buy a pizza I will ask for it uncooked and then ask if I can borrow their oven.

[South Lorne]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120038/George-Osbornes-takeaway-tax-provokes-furious-backlash-savouries-subject-VAT.html

Brilliant.

At least HMRC can now have endless meetings at taxpayer expense deciding just what exactly bread is.

This could get very tricky because if bread is excluded aren't pizza bases bread?

...'course...pizza is just cheese on toast..with tomato and other bits'n pieces added...why of course...Marie Antoinette defined cake as bread...

[the gardener]

flour

salt

yeast

sugar

You don't need the sugar or the salt.

You do need water however.

[Self Employed Youth]

Would be nice if the state education system ensured 100% of people upon the age of 18 (or after a period of 1 year for immigrants), could define 'money' and 'currency'.

33% of them attending the local establisment might get 5 A*-Cs at GCSE, but it seldom explains who is able and who is not.

The state can't define bread.  Will they tax the 'Chorleywood process'?

Be nice if they could define beer/alcohol! If I sold somebody a pint can containing two plastic sachets of water and beer to mix could I qualify for a lower rate of DUTY? People afterall could carry out reflux or freeze distillation... The separate ingredients often come mixed.

M/UST you sell them pre-mixed?

[Nationalist]

So, can anything be made VAT free just by baking it into a loaf of bread? Diamond encrusted loaves might sell well....

[witsended]

flour

salt

yeast

sugar

That also covers piklets, crumpets and most drop scones. But soda bread and varients don't use yeast along with many forms of flat bread.

Then if you add fruit does it become a cake and is Matza a biscuit ?

[mightytharg]

Now I'm wondering about pasties and cakes.

When they take the tray of cakes out of the oven, they'll have VAT on them, but if you wait half an hour the sames cake will be VAT-free???

Some sort of ban on fresh tasty food or a subsidy for stale rubbish.

Are the government mad?

These will be selling like cold cakes.

[Monkey]

Now I'm wondering about pasties and cakes.

When they take the tray of cakes out of the oven, they'll have VAT on them, but if you wait half an hour the sames cake will be VAT-free???

Some sort of ban on fresh tasty food or a subsidy for stale rubbish.

Are the government mad?

These will be selling like cold cakes.

there is going to be very clever ways round the tax i think over the next 6 months. its a stupid TAX if you ask me, how is it going to be 100% regulated?

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

I've been wondering about the impact on someone like Greggs? Do they already charge VAT or will they have to?

[witsended]

I've been wondering about the impact on someone like Greggs? Do they already charge VAT or will they have to?

Greggs' lost £30 million off the share price and are now threatening to take the government to court.

Gideons attack on a successful and expanding British company, is a clear indication that him and Davey knows nothing of either Greggs' place on the high street, or its place in millions of lunch breaks. Don't do shopping.

[Son of Taeper]

You don't need the sugar or the salt.

You do need water however.

And you don't need the yeast for that matter either.

[Son of Taeper]

Now I'm wondering about pasties and cakes.

When they take the tray of cakes out of the oven, they'll have VAT on them, but if you wait half an hour the sames cake will be VAT-free???

Some sort of ban on fresh tasty food or a subsidy for stale rubbish.

Are the government mad?

These will be selling like cold cakes.

The simple solution is to set up a committee to define Hot, Warm, and Ambient. I'll assume all food outlets will provide disposable thermometers to ensure Vat is not being charged when it should not be.

Might want to add cold and frozen to the list while they're at it as a hot pizza delivered by moped on a winters night is likely to be only warm or cold by the time it arrives, (maybe even frozen). As you open your front door there will be an inevitable change of temperature.

And where do we sit with something like this -

http://www.stellasofmadison.com/order-hot-and-spicy-cheese-bread

[porca misèria]

Would be nice if the state education system ensured 100% of people upon the age of 18 (or after a period of 1 year for immigrants), could define 'money' and 'currency'.

33% of them attending the local establisment might get 5 A*-Cs at GCSE, but it seldom explains who is able and who is not.

The state can't define bread.  Will they tax the 'Chorleywood process'?

Be nice if they could define beer/alcohol! If I sold somebody a pint can containing two plastic sachets of water and beer to mix could I qualify for a lower rate of DUTY? People afterall could carry out reflux or freeze distillation... The separate ingredients often come mixed.

M/UST you sell them pre-mixed?

You could easily spend more working around a tax than the cost of the tax itself. This particular tax was probably on balance an improvement on what we had before - whose flaws are conveniently ignored by bashers.

As for beer, you remind me of 1980s Iceland, where beer as we know it was technically illegal. Their bars got round that by selling a pint of non-alcoholic beer and a compatible measure of strong spirits as two drinks. Mind you, the cost was phenomenal: think £20/pint and you get an idea of the premium over UK prices.

[Goat]

Last week the chancellor announced VAT of 20 per cent will be extended to all hot takeaway foods such as pasties and pies which are ‘above the ambient air temperature at the time they are provided to the customer’.

Surely the obvious answer is to heat the shop to 65 degrees centigrade.

[SNACR]

Similarly chocolate digestives vatable - plain digestives not.

The conclusion could be the the vat on food regime is just so convoluted that all food is to be vatable and that was the plan from the start.

Few vox pops on the TV News asking people to pick the vatable bits on a tray of food - public accept you can't work it out - therefore vat on all food.

Not sure I'm particularly against it though actually - I'd always prefer less taxation but also favour less complex taxation.