getdoon_weebobby Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 tara i hope they fall more than £125k too but that would be a good start. And 100% agree on houses vs flat. my flat example was simply because there was a clear visible big drop on some flats in the auction the other day. I personally wouldnt buy a flat in belfast until rent covers a 25 year capital and interest mortgage (something which appears achievable in Germany and US from my research) I currently work in London but plan to buy a HOUSE when prices are a lot lower (2 years from now I guess - and yes I know that still will not be the low but hey I cant be bothered to rent for ever) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 [16] On 26 January 2001 the first defendant purchased a further property at 1 Muskett Road, Carryduff for £80,000. The consideration was furnished by way of a £60,000 mortgage with the balance of £20,000 being financed by a banker’s draft for £12,000 drawn on the defendant’s Ulster Bank account together with an unidentified cash payment of £8,000. In the course of completing the application forms submitted to the Woolwich upon this occasion the first defendant represented that he was a car sales manager employed by R J W Motors of 172 Ormeau Road, Belfast and that he had been so employed for a period of 6 years 5 months at a basic salary of £25,000 per annum. The first defendant was unable to furnish any records in support of such an alleged employment and the P45 form that he produced was confirmed by the Inland Revenue to be false. In August 2003 the first defendant subsequently applied to remortgage these premises with Birmingham Midshires. Upon this occasion he represented his occupation to be “management” with Dunmore Service Station as a result of which he was receiving a total income of £35,000 per annum made up of £24,500 in respect of income and £10,500 in respect of rental receipts. During interview with the Interim Receiver the first defendant stated that he had paid £2,000 in cash directly to the vendor to secure the sale which he claimed to be the profits from car dealing but he was unable to identify the source of the other £6,000. ...oooh he's been WELL caught out...25k a year sales manager Yeah well I wonder how many other mortgage applications were falsified over the last 3 years with bogus earnings/payslips etc. This is definitely not the last case of this type to come to court. I foresee a lot more of these court judgements over the next 2 years with lie to buy .... sorry buy to let mortgages from flippers/investors/speculators. I also wonder how much due diligence was done on mortgage applications in the heyday over the past 3 years. Not much by the looks of it. You can see all NI court judgements here by clicking on the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Paul65, as always - thanks for the report. I am keen to go to an auction myself to see how it all happens! Tara, PP and DoccyBoy (et al). Next Wilsons Auction is this Wed 19th March at 7.30pm in Portadown. Catalogue can be downloaded from here. Looks like the number of properties up for auction as a result of repossession is on the rise if you believe their advert below. Maybe the American effect has crossed the Atlantic quicker than that storm at the start of last week. May see some of you there? It is good craic and well worth the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Thanks for the info Paul - didnt see any re-possessions in the catalogue - still the same old guide prices. Yeah I agree Doccyboy - maybe the Advertising Standards Agency should have a word with Wilson's. They might get done under the trades description act if acting falsely - as like you I didn't see a whole pile of stuff that screamed repossession in the catalogue. Time will tell on Wed if they are good to their word on reserve prices. Will make attendance at the auction all the more interesting if only to check that they are good to their word on reserves. Might see you there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespasian Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Still looks like the Feb catalogue available on the link. I might try and go too, for a look, if work is not busy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespasian Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 http://www.wilsonsauctions.com/portadown_property_cat.pdf Tomorrow nights auction brochure in pdf format Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespasian Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 (edited) Hi Guys, I went along to the Wilsons property auction last night (don't worry, I didn't buy anything) There were many not meeting reserve prices, never mind guide prices! Those that didn't even come near reserve had details taken in case the vendor wanted to sell anyway http://www.wilsonsauctions.com/portadown_property_cat.pdf I've listed the residential property appearing on propertynews http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...amp;p=PNC122822 Lot 8, provisional sale for 142k (reserve not met), rateable value(RV) 100k http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...mp;p=JKFJKF0204 Lot 11, sold for 117k, RV 70k http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...amp;p=PNC332406 Lot 12, sold for 145k, RV 113k http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...amp;p=PNC292833 Lot 17, sold for 228k (was on Propertynews for 310k earlier in week) http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...1194HF003365020 Lot 20, provisional sale for 98k, RV 55k http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...amp;p=PNC303835 Lot 24, provisional sale for 223k http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...amp;p=PNC221202 Lot 26, sold for 94.5k, RV 65k http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...amp;p=PNC317239 Lot 27, provisional sale for 109k, RV 77.5k http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...amp;p=PNC233875 Lot 30, sold for 319k, RV 250k http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...amp;p=PNC193651 Lot 31, sold for 99k, RV 48k http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...amp;p=PNC171300 Lot 32, sold for 88k, RV 50k http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...;p=RM9091100588 Lot 35, sold for 580k http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...amp;p=PNC339826 Lot 38, sold for 179.5k, RV 115k (bidding war) http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...amp;p=PNC321625 Lot 44, sold for 79k, RV 125k (bargain! ) This was a repo http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...amp;p=PNC335435 Lot 51, provisional sale 94.5k, RV 95k (nice ) http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...mp;p=SACSAC0541 Lot 53, provisional sale for 91k, RV 49k http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...amp;p=PNC339853 Lot 64, provisional sale 73k, RV 53k With the provisional sales, in some cases the auctioneer said the property was withdrawn, but in all cases the bidders details was passed on to the vendor. The auctioneer wasn't pulling punches when it came to the reality of the property market here I thought it was incredible that Glasgow flats were selling for 20k, and yet people will pay 98k for something like Lot 20. Even more amazing was Lot 47 - 6 apartments for 7k (albeit in former East Germany). There is something quite mad going on with property in this country Also, the further the auction went on, the more the prices dropped! Edited March 20, 2008 by Vespasian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...amp;p=PNC321625Lot 44, sold for 79k, RV 125k (bargain! ) This was a repo If you notice in the description it states, "NO PLANNING PERMISSION". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tara747 Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Thanks Vespasian, very interesting! Incidentally, why doesn't this silly woman just reduce the price to sell??? gaaaaaaaaaahhhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Whoa! Some huge price cuts there! This market is tumbling down (at least in the auctions) as quickly as it ramped up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted March 20, 2008 Author Share Posted March 20, 2008 (edited) Hi Guys, I went along to the Wilsons property auction last night (don't worry, I didn't buy anything) There were many not meeting reserve prices, never mind guide prices! Those that didn't even come near reserve had details taken in case the vendor wanted to sell anywayhttp://www.wilsonsauctions.com/portadown_property_cat.pdf I've listed the residential property appearing on propertynews With the provisional sales, in some cases the auctioneer said the property was withdrawn, but in all cases the bidders details was passed on to the vendor. The auctioneer wasn't pulling punches when it came to the reality of the property market here I thought it was incredible that Glasgow flats were selling for 20k, and yet people will pay 98k for something like Lot 20. Even more amazing was Lot 47 - 6 apartments for 7k (albeit in former East Germany). There is something quite mad going on with property in this country Also, the further the auction went on, the more the prices dropped! Hi Vespasian - I didn't know you were going to be there last night. I was there too - sitting immediately to the left of the entrance door. It would have been nice to have met you in person and see if you are anything like your avatar! I was plugging the data into my PDA and will have it up on my auction reporting website http://nipropertyauctions.googlepages.com/ later on tonight. Was too tired today and busy with work to get round to doing it. Will do it later though promise. The market here is in freefall now - even at auction a lot of these properties are still considered too expensive IMHO and there is no appetite amongst punters to pay over the odds now for a depreciating asset. I don't know if you noticed but many of those properties were receiving invisible bids from invisible punters in the room just to give the impression that there was an appetite to bid up the properties and get the property close to reserve as quickly as possible. Sure there were some properties that had some real punters bidding but I was watching very very carefully (that's why it is important to sit at the back of the room - you can see exactly who is bidding) and many of those bids were supposedly coming from in the region where I was sitting. There was only a middle aged couple beside me and I know they weren't bidding (as neither was I) so these bids were clearly fictitious. Also I don't know if you noticed how many times the auctioneer mentioned that a bid had come from "out the door" or "along the back at the left". Again these bids were all fictitious. That's precisely the other reason why I occupied the seat just inside the door on the left - to confirm this invisible bidding phenomenon. And how can I be so sure of this all being the case? Well, I simply challenged the auctioneer after it was all over and the room had emptied (in order to have a private chat) about who was actually laying these bids "out the door" etc and he confirmed no-one. He even confirmed that he was looking over towards me "at the back of the room" as he now knows my face (as I've been to the past 3 auctions now) and was using me as one of the "invisible bidders!" I was shocked and anyone considering bidding at these auctions really needs to have their wits and eyes and ears peeled as you could in theory be bidding against "invisible bidders" in order to ramp the price up to meet reserve or a respectable sales figure. Buyers beware - not everything may be as it seems. BTW the next auction at Mallusk is next Thurs 27th March @ 7.30pm http://www.wilsonsauctions.com/property_mallusk.asp . 26 entries from 50 lots are repo's from Financial institutions. This is just the tip of the iceberg folks. Also the auctioneer in Mallusk has a much different, faster style (not involving "invisible bidders") and he shifts properties faster than it takes to sneeze so expect knock down prices and quick sales next Thurs - especially on the repo's. Will you (Vespasian) be there? Or anyone else from NI HPC for that matter? Edited March 20, 2008 by paul65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 many of those properties were receiving invisible bids from invisible punters Known as "bidding off the walls". Or in posh London salerooms, "bidding off the chandeliers". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrustratedFTB Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Hi Vespasian - I didn't know you were going to be there last night. I was there too - sitting immediately to the left of the entrance door. It would have been nice to have met you in person and see if you are anything like your avatar! I was plugging the data into my PDA and will have it up on my auction reporting website http://nipropertyauctions.googlepages.com/ later on tonight. Was too tired today and busy with work to get round to doing it. Will do it later though promise............................. BTW the next auction at Mallusk is next Thurs 27th March @ 7.30pm http://www.wilsonsauctions.com/property_mallusk.asp . 26 entries from 50 lots are repo's from Financial institutions. This is just the tip of the iceberg folks. Also the auctioneer in Mallusk has a much different, faster style (not involving "invisible bidders") and he shifts properties faster than it takes to sneeze so expect knock down prices and quick sales next Thurs - especially on the repo's. Will you (Vespasian) be there? Or anyone else from NI HPC for that matter? Folks can i just say a big thank you for going to these auctions and reporting back from the 'coal face' as i find it gives one such hope that waiting for price falls is not just a pipe dream! Was at the gym the other week and bumped into a friend who i had not seen for a while and we got talking about house prices (these days I try not to !) and he told me of a conversation that he had with some other friend and said to me this person had been boasting not that long ago about how he had got such a cheap mortgage to buy some two bed 'hutch' for only 1300 a month! Well it appears that this block is still sitting half empty and the prices are slowly but surely dropping! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted March 20, 2008 Author Share Posted March 20, 2008 Known as "bidding off the walls". Or in posh London salerooms, "bidding off the chandeliers". You know what Pod? As my old man says you learn something new every day. Thanks for that. I was naive and unaware of the phenomenon up until last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespasian Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Hi Vespasian - I didn't know you were going to be there last night. I was there too - sitting immediately to the left of the entrance door. It would have been nice to have met you in person and see if you are anything like your avatar! I was plugging the data into my PDA and will have it up on my auction reporting website http://nipropertyauctions.googlepages.com/ later on tonight. Was too tired today and busy with work to get round to doing it. Will do it later though promise.The market here is in freefall now - even at auction a lot of these properties are still considered too expensive IMHO and there is no appetite amongst punters to pay over the odds now for a depreciating asset. I don't know if you noticed but many of those properties were receiving invisible bids from invisible punters in the room just to give the impression that there was an appetite to bid up the properties and get the property close to reserve as quickly as possible. Sure there were some properties that had some real punters bidding but I was watching very very carefully (that's why it is important to sit at the back of the room - you can see exactly who is bidding) and many of those bids were supposedly coming from in the region where I was sitting. There was only a middle aged couple beside me and I know they weren't bidding (as neither was I) so these bids were clearly fictitious. Also I don't know if you noticed how many times the auctioneer mentioned that a bid had come from "out the door" or "along the back at the left". Again these bids were all fictitious. That's precisely the other reason why I occupied the seat just inside the door on the left - to confirm this invisible bidding phenomenon. And how can I be so sure of this all being the case? Well, I simply challenged the auctioneer after it was all over and the room had emptied (in order to have a private chat) about who was actually laying these bids "out the door" etc and he confirmed no-one. He even confirmed that he was looking over towards me "at the back of the room" as he now knows my face (as I've been to the past 3 auctions now) and was using me as one of the "invisible bidders!" I was shocked and anyone considering bidding at these auctions really needs to have their wits and eyes and ears peeled as you could in theory be bidding against "invisible bidders" in order to ramp the price up to meet reserve or a respectable sales figure. Buyers beware - not everything may be as it seems. BTW the next auction at Mallusk is next Thurs 27th March @ 7.30pm http://www.wilsonsauctions.com/property_mallusk.asp . 26 entries from 50 lots are repo's from Financial institutions. This is just the tip of the iceberg folks. Also the auctioneer in Mallusk has a much different, faster style (not involving "invisible bidders") and he shifts properties faster than it takes to sneeze so expect knock down prices and quick sales next Thurs - especially on the repo's. Will you (Vespasian) be there? Or anyone else from NI HPC for that matter? Hi Paul, I was on the right through the door, halfway along at the back. Did you not notice the Toga? Wow, I was sitting there too wondering where the bids were coming from. There was no bidding going on near me. I saw 2 bids in total during the evening, one on the other side of the room and one three rows ahead. Thats unreal! No wonder the prices were falling during the auction as the facade crumbled. What an eyeopener! Also, if you're gonna bid, go in at the end of the evening I won't be at Mallusk, but the Portadown site is near work, so its handy. I'll definitely go again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) Hi Paul, I was on the right through the door, halfway along at the back. Did you not notice the Toga? Wow, I was sitting there too wondering where the bids were coming from. There was no bidding going on near me. I saw 2 bids in total during the evening, one on the other side of the room and one three rows ahead. Thats unreal! No wonder the prices were falling during the auction as the facade crumbled. What an eyeopener! Also, if you're gonna bid, go in at the end of the evening I won't be at Mallusk, but the Portadown site is near work, so its handy. I'll definitely go again Missed the toga I'm afraid - my bad We'll have to get together at the next auction and talk HPC rather than spend ages typing responses! Just so you know I look nothing like my old avatar David Dickenson. More of a Boris Johnson doppelganger if I'm brutally honest - so I've changed it. Shouldn't be that hard to spot me then - just look for the fella with the shock of blond hair and that's me! It sounds like you had a good time at the auction all the same and it really is an eye opener to the nefarious shenanigans surrounding property sales especially the "bidding off the walls" phenomenon. Sadly when money/property is involved unfortunately greed takes over and things get manipulated. Sad but true. Will be on the look out for you and your toga next time in Portadown. If you spot me first before I spot you then pop over and introduce yourself. We'll have a ball. Edited March 21, 2008 by paul65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 that fake bidding is a real eye opener, surely thats not allowed! Would that not mean if you bought a property your purchase would be null and void? What is the legal angle on that one! the Mullusk one is close to me so I might check it out for a laugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 It appears to be legal up to the reserve price. Sure is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) It appears to be legal up to the reserve price. Yep - as pod and doccyboy have confirmed it is legal. I also found the following advice/information on http://www.womeninpropertyinvestment.com/a...fulauction.html to be quite useful: When attending auctions, you'll often notice that people can be reluctant to start the bidding. In this case, the auctioneer will take a bid from an imaginary bidder to get things moving. In fact, he's allowed to take bids in this way until the reserve is met. This is called taking bids "off the chandelier" (or "off the wall" in the less salubrious auction venues).When you're standing at the back of the room, you might able to tell when the auctioneer is making things up AND the point at which he stops doing so and looks for real bids (remember, he can't make up false bids after the reserve is met). This gives you clues as to how much interest there is in the property and, if you're bidding, whether anyone else is actually in the running. Here's your reason for attending a few auctions before the one you intend to buy at, because you'll get to know how the auctioneer operates. Edited March 21, 2008 by paul65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Next Wilsons Auction is tonight Thurs 27th March 2008 in Mallusk. 26 of the 50 property lots are from financial institutions (a fancy way of saying repossessed). If you want to see the list of repossessed lots up for auction - with RESERVE PRICES! click here Click below if you want more info about the lots under the hammer tonight. http://www.wilsonsauctions.com/property_mallusk.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDavola Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Interesting - did a quick search on PropertyNews after seeing that there were so many houses for auction in Lurgan. Seems you can get a semi-detached house in Lurgan for £125K: http://www.propertynews.com/brochure.php?r...amp;p=PNC301456 (although with the 'sale agreed' maybe there was some bidding and it sole for more than this) Does anyone know what kind of increases Lurgan has seen over the last two years? Perhaps it is one of those places that jumped by 50% a year or two ago, and will lose every penny of those gains very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor21 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 (edited) Im not to sure how accurate that list is, auctions in England yesterday for Rogan Manor, and oaktree were asset recovery! This is different from a normal Repo. So this would put me off, between the 2 auctions tonight and yesterday I belive 10 houses in Oaktree could all be assets recovery from the same orginal owner, and I belive 3 in Rogan Manor! The house numbers are nearly next to each other. You have basically Drug lords in the past buying up swades of new developemnts and renting them out to turn their income into a legitimate source. So if the tennants all know each other and the previous owner, you will face a heap of trouble potentially collecting rent ,or if you want to move tennants on and sell it or live in it yourself! Edited March 27, 2008 by trebor21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Boy Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Thanks for the warnings. I guess people really need to do their research on the history of a property and the area, before buying at auction. My research has shown me that the same proceedures are needed as buying from an estate agent i.e. get a solicitor to do checks on the house you are interested in buying. Though if you are then out-bid you will obviously have wasted money on fees. But better to be safe than sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul65 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 (edited) Im not to sure how accurate that list is, auctions in England yesterday for Rogan Manor, and oaktree were asset recovery! This is different from a normal Repo.So this would put me off, between the 2 auctions tonight and yesterday I belive 10 houses in Oaktree could all be assets recovery from the same orginal owner, and I belive 3 in Rogan Manor! The house numbers are nearly next to each other. You have basically Drug lords in the past buying up swades of new developemnts and renting them out to turn their income into a legitimate source. So if the tennants all know each other and the previous owner, you will face a heap of trouble potentially collecting rent ,or if you want to move tennants on and sell it or live in it yourself! Welcome to the thread Trebor and thanks for your valuable input. You are spot on regarding the ARA stuff in Rogan Manor and Oaktree. I did a quick search on the allsopp website and it confirmed these sales were all ARA related. Lot 206 Lot 204 Lot 205 Lot 238 Lot 239 Edited March 27, 2008 by paul65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trebor21 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 (edited) Welcome to the thread Trebor and thanks for your valuable input.You are spot on regarding the ARA stuff in Rogan Manor and Oaktree. I did a quick search on the allsopp website and it confirmed these sales were all ARA related. http://www.auction.co.uk/Both/LotDetails.a...date=26/03/2008 http://www.auction.co.uk/Both/LotDetails.a...date=26/03/2008 http://www.auction.co.uk/Both/LotDetails.a...date=26/03/2008 http://www.auction.co.uk/Both/LotDetails.a...date=26/03/2008 http://www.auction.co.uk/Both/LotDetails.a...date=26/03/2008 Thanks Paul, These are still 40% below current valuations of similar propertys, so I guess you have to way up the risks! Ps links are wrong, but people can search for themselves! Edited March 27, 2008 by trebor21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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