Thinking Of Working Abroad For A Few Years - A Few Questions.....

[Son of Taeper]

I'd jump at it.

Language is so easy to pick up,

Lifestyle leaves the UK in the dark ages.

[mpprh]

Another supporter for making the move. I've been resident in UK, Belgium, Sweden and France.

You only need 30 yrs contributions (top up years cost around £650) to get a full UK state pension. Your other pensions will be higher and payable earlier.

Aim to move back to UK and buy a house without a mortgage - and life suddenly gets easier !

Many decide they like "foren" and stay. I'm currently in South France and there are quite a few retired Brit expats around.

Send me a PM if you need more info.

[luke85]

Thanks for the advice and opinions guys. Contract signed and working out my notice now! 2 weeks left working in the UK, followed by 3 weeks on a USA tour that Ive always wanted to do then start work in Germany on 1st August.

[swissy_fit]

Congratulations - good choice.

Hope Germany doesn't leave the Euro, it's the only circumstance in which I can see you regretting this move!

[Guest_FaFa!_*]

Best of luck - keep us posted on how you get on!

[this_prisoner_is_opting_out]

Well done and congratulations!

FWIW, I skipped across the channel when I was 26 with just a couple of bags of clothes and a cd player, figured I'd spend 6 months or so here.

13 years later I own a house (shhhh!), am married & have two children. I'm not naive enough to believe life is perfect here - but there's more to quality of life than postcode!

[luke85]

OK so time for a bit of an update:

I have been in Germany now for just over 6 weeks and Im pretty well settled in. I have no regrets about making the move although it does take a little getting used to not seeing the friends and family so often any more (I still lived with parents back home). The people here are friendly and my new colleagues at work have gone out of their way to make me feel welcome and help me with all the paperwork and day to day living issues.

In case anyone finds themselves in a similar position I can share the following advice (or you are welcome to pm me):

Paperwork

I am one of the slackest people when it comes to paperwork you are ever likely to meet. I crossed the channel with photocopies of bank statements, tax forms, driving liscence and insurance. Thats about it. Assuming you have somewhere to stay and a job lined up already, the first ting to do is go to the local town hall and register your adress there, you will need your passport but thats about it. That gets you your national identity number, which comes in the post after about 5 days. Once you have that, you can go to the regional tax office and register yourself there so that your employer can pay your takes from the wage slip as they do in the UK. both of these were done in 2 weeks, so everything was sorted for when I first got paid at the end of the month.

Bank account

I bank with Santander in the UK and they said "just ask them to pay your UK bank account until you have one set up in Germany" however when I gave my employer my english bank details they were unwilling to pay it. Opening a bank account in Germany seemed quite difficult, I went to Santander over here with years worth of my bank statements from Santander UK and they wouldnt let me open even the most basic of accounts until I had 3 months wage slips (I didnt want an overdraft or anything). My compnay recommended another bank called Degussa Bank and they opened me a bank account, but it is a very basic one to start with, I cant even buy things online with it at the moment and will be speaking to them in the coming weeks about upgrading it.

Health insurance

Health insurance is compulsory here, but that is not as bad as it first sounds. There are a few companies to choose from, I was recommended to join TK. I filled out one form and my company did the rest, health insurance is deducted from your pay slip just like national insureance is in the UK. Im not sure how this works if you become unemployed though. I think the total deductions form your monthly par are comparable to in the UK. PM me if you would like any specifics as I would rather not post them here.

The language

I have been here 6 weeks on my own (except for a few visits from friends) and managed perfectly fine. Most people here can speak a level of english which is enough to get by in the supermarkets and shops. Socialising however is different, although people like you to speak english to them to refine their english skills, you need to learn German to really fit in, but this is really to be expected. I start a 4 week intensive language course tomorrow so we will see how that goes.

Driving

I drove over with my english car which I am still using until I find one over here which I can buy. You should check with your insurance before you set off though as they generally dont cover you for more than 30 days at a time out of the country.

All in all I have no regrets, its a big jump but hey, Id regret it if I hadnt taken the chance!

PS please keep devaluing the £ as I might want to move back to the UK one day

[Democorruptcy]

OK so time for a bit of an update:

Great post thanks for taking the time to do it.

Just the sort of thing I was hoping people would do when I suggested this section.

[Guest_FaFa!_*]

Six weeks? Still the honeymoon period! Glad to hear it is going well - if you are still enjoying after the winter and once the alienness of it has worn off then you'll get a better view of the long term possibilities. Keep us posted!

[Argoed]

Six weeks? Still the honeymoon period! Glad to hear it is going well - if you are still enjoying after the winter and once the alienness of it has worn off then you'll get a better view of the long term possibilities. Keep us posted!

Honeymoon indeed it is. The real problem sets in years later when you realise that you will never really be fully integrated (accepted) in the country you have spent the last 10 yrs living in , likely because of deep rooted cultural differences and values, which can persist even when you have learned the language. And to be fully accepted (if it's even possible) you must suppress a lot of your genuine thoughts and emotions and so you become effectively a non-person acting a role.

You decide you want to return to your country of birth but after 10 years away it has changed beyond recognition (and probably not for the better eg UK) and you really don't like it or the culture anymore. You have been rendered stateless , in limbo and without a place to call home.

The experience of a few years abroad is indeed worthwhile, but take care not to get addicted to the tax free cash and the driver and maids. There is an invisible cost to be paid later down the track and the secret is to know when to call it a day and pack your bags.

[swissy_fit]

Honeymoon indeed it is. The real problem sets in years later when you realise that you will never really be fully integrated (accepted) in the country you have spent the last 10 yrs living in , likely because of deep rooted cultural differences and values, which can persist even when you have learned the language. And to be fully accepted (if it's even possible) you must suppress a lot of your genuine thoughts and emotions and so you become effectively a non-person acting a role.

You decide you want to return to your country of birth but after 10 years away it has changed beyond recognition (and probably not for the better eg UK) and you really don't like it or the culture anymore. You have been rendered stateless , in limbo and without a place to call home.

The experience of a few years abroad is indeed worthwhile, but take care not to get addicted to the tax free cash and the driver and maids. There is an invisible cost to be paid later down the track and the secret is to know when to call it a day and pack your bags.

A bleak post, but some truth in it.

IMO you are more likely to be fully accepted in some cultures than others. I am slowly becoming more and more Swiss in my outlook, and if my work circumstances mean that I stay here long enough, IMO I will stand more chance of full integration than I ever would in France, despite fluency in the language. Problem is, my work situation is about to change.

[Argoed]

A bleak post, but some truth in it.

IMO you are more likely to be fully accepted in some cultures than others. I am slowly becoming more and more Swiss in my outlook, and if my work circumstances mean that I stay here long enough, IMO I will stand more chance of full integration than I ever would in France, despite fluency in the language. Problem is, my work situation is about to change.

Indeed,if you're making a move from the UK to Europe , Oz, NZ, US, Canada etc those cultural issues are unlikely to arise . To be honest,I was thinking more about my personal situation in Indo where they tolerate, maybe even respect and perhaps like you, but truth be known you will never really be regarded as anything other than a foreign oddity.... a novelty. I think expats in China, Japan, Korea will experience the exact same thing .

Another expat problem ; chap I know left UK in his 20's and spent the next 30 yrs as a wandering expat . Never married and no kids and by the time he returned to the UK he was pretty well loaded with whopping pension in tow. Problem being that he is now in his mid fifties, comfortable but alone , though still not sufficiently alone to be in the market for a divorcee with three kids with all her luggage , a single mum with four kids, or a snoring widow with a better moustache than his. He was too busy making money to notice his place in the changing order of things. A 30 yr comfortable lifestyle has come at a cost and with an unforeseen sting in the tail.

[Guest_FaFa!_*]

Indeed,if you're making a move from the UK to Europe , Oz, NZ, US, Canada etc those cultural issues are unlikely to arise . To be honest,I was thinking more about my personal situation in Indo where they tolerate, maybe even respect and perhaps like you, but truth be known you will never really be regarded as anything other than a foreign oddity.... a novelty. I think expats in China, Japan, Korea will experience the exact same thing .

Indo? You mean Indonesia? How are you finding that? Have been to Jakarta, can't say I liked it much. Are other places in the country better?

I think your point is interesting. I was out of the UK most of 2001 - 2006 and when I came back, house prices appeared to be a major part of conversation. Frankly I felt more like an actor playing a role in the UK, working in an office where 1/3 of my colleagues were LLs. One of my colleagues got hitched, bought an over priced semi and wife had a kid. He kept badgering me over when the wife and I were buying a house and having a kid. He really seemed to need others to validate his life choices and I got that a lot in the UK. I think as a part and parcel of living in Asia it has to be understood that you will never truly be accepted in the way an Asian moving to the West would expect to be. Asians treat you well as a guest, but guests are temporary. Immigration can make an interesting life, but not an easy one.

[Argoed]

Indo? You mean Indonesia? How are you finding that? Have been to Jakarta, can't say I liked it much. Are other places in the country better?

I think your point is interesting. I was out of the UK most of 2001 - 2006 and when I came back, house prices appeared to be a major part of conversation. Frankly I felt more like an actor playing a role in the UK, working in an office where 1/3 of my colleagues were LLs. One of my colleagues got hitched, bought an over priced semi and wife had a kid. He kept badgering me over when the wife and I were buying a house and having a kid. He really seemed to need others to validate his life choices and I got that a lot in the UK. I think as a part and parcel of living in Asia it has to be understood that you will never truly be accepted in the way an Asian moving to the West would expect to be. Asians treat you well as a guest, but guests are temporary. Immigration can make an interesting life, but not an easy one.

[/quote

14 million in Jakarta and it is a total SH! Polluted, noisy, dangerous for your health (endemic diseases not violence). Would certainly not be top of my list (if I had a choice) but still better than Jedda where I was previously.Surabaya (east Java) is a nicer place by far but I also like Medan in north Sumatra.

But as much as I complain about life here there is still a lot of freedom . The UK and it's don't do this, can't do that , don't look, don't touch... don't say, mentality is suffocating. And yet for all this control freakery I find people in the UK increasingly rude and aggressive which is the complete opposite to SE Asia . Best of all I no longer have to put up with soccer related media saturation which had become insufferable. (Though I do have to put up with that other religion of course).

But after a while the issue is one of "belonging". Where do you feel most at home? It's no longer the UK for me , but where to go now?

[Democorruptcy]

But as much as I complain about life here there is still a lot of freedom . The UK and it's don't do this, can't do that , don't look, don't touch... don't say, mentality is suffocating. And yet for all this control freakery I find people in the UK increasingly rude and aggressive which is the complete opposite to SE Asia . Best of all I no longer have to put up with soccer related media saturation which had become insufferable. (Though I do have to put up with that other religion of course).

But after a while the issue is one of "belonging". Where do you feel most at home? It's no longer the UK for me , but where to go now?

3 or 4 weeks back me and the good lady were sat in a farm cafe. Not on the table next to us but across the room but directly me facing was a group of about 5 women with young children. They were making a bit of noise (as children do) and one of them threw one of the thick plastics trays that food is served on, onto the floor. The second time he did it it smashed. Naturally I was looking because they were facing me and noise attracts attention.

Anyway as the group gets up to leave a bit later on, one of the mothers comes over to me and tells me that she finds me very offensive because I was looking at them. I asked her if she seriously thought she could tell me where I can look and she just kept repeating that I had offended her by looking in their direction. I told her that was the way I was facing and noise attracts attention (without mentioning them smashing a tray on the floor). Nobody else in her group said a word and she just kept repeating that she wanted me to know I had offended her to which I replied that I didn't care because I can look where I like. She did eventually go when realising there was absolutely no way she was going to get the apology that her warped little mind seemed to be demanding. After she had gone a woman on the table next to us turned and said that the woman had no right at all to come over and talk to us like that and that she couldn't understand people in the UK these days.

[Argoed]

3 or 4 weeks back me and the good lady were sat in a farm cafe. Not on the table next to us but across the room but directly me facing was a group of about 5 women with young children. They were making a bit of noise (as children do) and one of them threw one of the thick plastics trays that food is served on, onto the floor. The second time he did it it smashed. Naturally I was looking because they were facing me and noise attracts attention.

Anyway as the group gets up to leave a bit later on, one of the mothers comes over to me and tells me that she finds me very offensive because I was looking at them. I asked her if she seriously thought she could tell me where I can look and she just kept repeating that I had offended her by looking in their direction. I told her that was the way I was facing and noise attracts attention (without mentioning them smashing a tray on the floor). Nobody else in her group said a word and she just kept repeating that she wanted me to know I had offended her to which I replied that I didn't care because I can look where I like. She did eventually go when realising there was absolutely no way she was going to get the apology that her warped little mind seemed to be demanding. After she had gone a woman on the table next to us turned and said that the woman had no right at all to come over and talk to us like that and that she couldn't understand people in the UK these days.

There was an article in the DT today about kids in pubs and how the parents are surprised when others do not necessarily find their noisy and unruly brats either amusing or endearing (why is everyone expected to be in awe at their ability to breed and their superhuman, supertalented, offspring .... it can't be too difficult if you look at the most successful at it ).

So now you can't smoke in pubs but you can take in your 3 kids to take over the place with their noisy foot-stamping tantrums and annoying attention seeking activities.

It's bad enough that you are made to feel an oddity or somehow slightly unsavoury if you clearly do not share their fascination for their moronic progeny and this distaste is communicated to you by various looks and frowns or under the breath tut-tutting etc. But for me the real pizzer-offer is when these oh so attentive mothers (so why are the kids left alone when the mothers are in the bar, restaurant , tanning etc- "but I was only 500 metrs away"!!!)give you that "I'm watching you ,cos I don't like the way you are watching my kid and I think you might be .... you know....the unspoken word".

Indeed you had been looking at their uncontrolled brat but thinking only "yes my boy, if you were mine I beat the living beejesus out of you " but instead you find yourself looking down at your shoes or self-consciously averting your eyes in guilty embarrassment (even though you detest kids and not remotely interested in them ... at least until the girls reach the age of 18....). Talk about state supported intimidation of the innocent . (See my comments on a recent incident with a demented female in a Swansea car park).

Britain really is host to one F up, messed up , muddled up society and it's getting worse by the day.

[swissy_fit]

There was an article in the DT today about kids in pubs and how the parents are surprised when others do not necessarily find their noisy and unruly brats either amusing or endearing (why is everyone expected to be in awe at their ability to breed and their superhuman, supertalented, offspring .... it can't be too difficult if you look at the most successful at it ).

So now you can't smoke in pubs but you can take in your 3 kids to take over the place with their noisy foot-stamping tantrums and annoying attention seeking activities.

It's bad enough that you are made to feel an oddity or somehow slightly unsavoury if you clearly do not share their fascination for their moronic progeny and this distaste is communicated to you by various looks and frowns or under the breath tut-tutting etc. But for me the real pizzer-offer is when these oh so attentive mothers (so why are the kids left alone when the mothers are in the bar, restaurant , tanning etc- "but I was only 500 metrs away"!!!)give you that "I'm watching you ,cos I don't like the way you are watching my kid and I think you might be .... you know....the unspoken word".

Indeed you had been looking at their uncontrolled brat but thinking only "yes my boy, if you were mine I beat the living beejesus out of you " but instead you find yourself looking down at your shoes or self-consciously averting your eyes in guilty embarrassment (even though you detest kids and not remotely interested in them ... at least until the girls reach the age of 18....). Talk about state supported intimidation of the innocent . (See my comments on a recent incident with a demented female in a Swansea car park).

Britain really is host to one F up, messed up , muddled up society and it's getting worse by the day.

You think that, when you see an unruly child?

[Argoed]

You think that, when you see an unruly child?

When I see some spoilt, footstamping, screaming kid yelling, "I want , I want , I want....." at the top of his voice and I see the confused and despairing look of defeat on his mother's face, I have thought, on more than one occasion, that I would like to take over the parenting for 10 minutes. And I can state categorically it would not be with the intention of rationalising with the little angel .

I got it at home (occasionally) and at school (more frequently) and it works very well.

[swissy_fit]

When I see some spoilt, footstamping, screaming kid yelling, "I want , I want , I want....." at the top of his voice and I see the confused and despairing look of defeat on his mother's face, I have thought, on more than one occasion, that I would like to take over the parenting for 10 minutes. And I can state categorically it would not be with the intention of rationalising with the little angel .

I got it at home (occasionally) and at school (more frequently) and it works very well.

If you say so. I haven't yet found it necessary to go beyond handling my small children firmly and imposing punishments that they clearly understand, though never say never. After you've beaten him into submission aged 4, what will you do to communicate your displeasure and impose your will when your hypothetical son is 16, 6ft 4 and 190 pounds of lean muscle?

[Argoed]

If you say so. I haven't yet found it necessary to go beyond handling my small children firmly and imposing punishments that they clearly understand, though never say never. After you've beaten him into submission aged 4, what will you do to communicate your displeasure and impose your will when your hypothetical son is 16, 6ft 4 and 190 pounds of lean muscle?

Get my ex-wife to sort him out ; she'd make mince meat of him.

[Argoed]

If you say so. I haven't yet found it necessary to go beyond handling my small children firmly and imposing punishments that they clearly understand, though never say never. After you've beaten him into submission aged 4, what will you do to communicate your displeasure and impose your will when your hypothetical son is 16, 6ft 4 and 190 pounds of lean muscle?

I suppose I'm guilty of a certain poetic licence; there are many people out there who would laugh at my comment about beating and refer to the Healey classic about "being savaged by a dead sheep". That being said ,there are too many parents whose complete lack of control (and lack of respect for other people )has produced little selfish, nasty monsters who will undoubtedly grow into 6ft sociopaths 10 yrs down the line because of parental neglect and stupidity. These kids need to be taught rights and wrongs now not when the dye is cast .

I recall at age 11 coming off the school yard late after playing cricket and the maths teacher was not amused. I got caned on both hands as did my mate . It never happened again (and I never forgot it either). A year later the sod was inviting me to join his club!

[Guest_FaFa!_*]

14 million in Jakarta and it is a total SH! Polluted, noisy, dangerous for your health (endemic diseases not violence). Would certainly not be top of my list (if I had a choice) but still better than Jedda where I was previously.Surabaya (east Java) is a nicer place by far but I also like Medan in north Sumatra.

But as much as I complain about life here there is still a lot of freedom . The UK and it's don't do this, can't do that , don't look, don't touch... don't say, mentality is suffocating. And yet for all this control freakery I find people in the UK increasingly rude and aggressive which is the complete opposite to SE Asia . Best of all I no longer have to put up with soccer related media saturation which had become insufferable. (Though I do have to put up with that other religion of course).

But after a while the issue is one of "belonging". Where do you feel most at home? It's no longer the UK for me , but where to go now?

Glad to hear it is not all bad as I might have to head back next year on business trips. I think part of emigrating is the acceptance that you probably will never fully fit in with your chosen country.

3 or 4 weeks back me and the good lady were sat in a farm cafe. Not on the table next to us but across the room but directly me facing was a group of about 5 women with young children. They were making a bit of noise (as children do) and one of them threw one of the thick plastics trays that food is served on, onto the floor. The second time he did it it smashed. Naturally I was looking because they were facing me and noise attracts attention.

Anyway as the group gets up to leave a bit later on, one of the mothers comes over to me and tells me that she finds me very offensive because I was looking at them. I asked her if she seriously thought she could tell me where I can look and she just kept repeating that I had offended her by looking in their direction. I told her that was the way I was facing and noise attracts attention (without mentioning them smashing a tray on the floor). Nobody else in her group said a word and she just kept repeating that she wanted me to know I had offended her to which I replied that I didn't care because I can look where I like. She did eventually go when realising there was absolutely no way she was going to get the apology that her warped little mind seemed to be demanding. After she had gone a woman on the table next to us turned and said that the woman had no right at all to come over and talk to us like that and that she couldn't understand people in the UK these days.

I am in my early thirties and have felt a steady but marked deterioration of manners in the UK during my life, particularly the last 10 years. Are we all harking back to a golden age that never existed or is this feeling right?

[Spoony]

Glad to hear it is not all bad as I might have to head back next year on business trips. I think part of emigrating is the acceptance that you probably will never fully fit in with your chosen country.

I am in my early thirties and have felt a steady but marked deterioration of manners in the UK during my life, particularly the last 10 years. Are we all harking back to a golden age that never existed or is this feeling right?

No you are right. The UK is full of idiots breeding idiots and I really detest it.