Grief From The Other Half

[Tiger Woods?]

My ex and I split up about 2 weeks ago. We argued a lot generally but one of the things that really were the worst arguements was about house prices. A typical snippet from one:

Her: "You've been saying for 10 years that prices will crash"

Me: " They have crashed"

Her: "No they haven't"

Me "Yes they did, in 2007 and going lower still now"

Her " Well they haven't in St Albans"

Me: "Thats because its overpriced due to London, places away from London are still going down"

Her: "Well I suppose if you keep saying it will crash for long enough, one day you will be right"

Me: "(Fuming!) You have no idea really at all. One of these days you will see what I mean and come around to reality and the fact I was right all along. You need to read some articles online."

Her: "You can't get a better investment than a house if you have spare cash, look at all the rent you'll get instead of it sitting in the bank. I've advised my cousin (who has lots of money) to invest in housing.

Me: "Sit down, do the sums and work out the yield, it really is not worth the hassle. Money is better in the bank. (Angry here) Its people like you who got the country into the state it is today speculating with housing and watching too much property porn"

Her: "Why are you so angry all the time, you used to be so fun and now its all doom and gloom, you hate banks, builders, the government, the bank of england, councils, estate agents, mervyn king, in fact nearly everyone. Don't you think you could be wrong about this?"

Me; "Of course not"

Her: "Thats right, EVERYONE is wrong - you are right!"

Me: "You make it sound like I am the only person with these views, I tell you I'm not. As I say, forget your ideas forced into you by the mainstream media and do some research, theres plenty of it out there and use your common sense.......

I could go on but you get the general idea. Do you think I'm best off out of it!>>!??! She probably would have taken half my house anyway. I think the best idea is to find a girl who already has a house these days so you are on an equal footing.

This is a typical example of probably not to handle a girls nesting instinct but then again we never communicated well anyway when she got in that kind of mood. And an example of the damage high house prices cause relationships.

No small gonads over here. She was a big control freak at times but I wouldn't cave in over housing or most other things.

It sounds as if you have very different views of the world, and that the way you are arguing shows a lack of respect towards the other by one or both of you. This isn't compatible with long term happiness in my opinion (and experience). Ceteris paribus, get yourself another lass who has a world view more compatible with your own. Divorce is too expensive and destructive in the long run, and as a male you will come out worse from the deal. Mrs Woods and I have a similar view on the world, and when we differ we never have an argument like the one you outlined above (and I have some pretty strident views.) It is a blessing. The same could not be said of previous relationships and, from where I am sitting now, I am glad I didn't marry any of them.

[Tiger Woods?]

We have three kids under 6 and my missus isn't putting me under any pressure for us to stop renting.

In fact, last month she started looking wistfully at a rather nice catamaran currently up for sale with the thought that we could live on board for a year or two and then use the saved rent to fund a two year circumnavigation.

I guess I married well......

You married well.

Make sure you keep some cash spare to pay for the Malaccan or Somalian ransom. Oh, and read this book first: Survive the Savage Sea: by Dougal Robertson.

[Paddles]

You married well.

Make sure you keep some cash spare to pay for the Malaccan or Somalian ransom. Oh, and read this book first: Survive the Savage Sea: by Dougal Robertson.

Yeah, 3/4 circumnavigation is the new circumnavigation apparently; Asia to the Med or vice versa, leaving out the Indian Ocean.

[scottbeard]

Her: "Why are you so angry all the time, you used to be so fun and now its all doom and gloom, you hate banks, builders, the government, the bank of england, councils, estate agents, mervyn king, in fact nearly everyone..."

I could go on but you get the general idea. Do you think I'm best off out of it!>>!??! She probably would have taken half my house anyway. I think the best idea is to find a girl who already has a house these days so you are on an equal footing.

Perhaps you two were right to break up if you were always arguing. But I would be very cautious of letting housing dictate your relationship, rather than the other way around.

If you find the right girl, it won't matter if she owns a huge house or has no money at all, since you won't get divorced and so you won't have to give anything away.

The goal of our lives should simply be to be as happy as possible. And that has to balance both money and relationships.

If you disagree on housing that could definitely lead to unhappiness - I'll bet plenty of couples break up over the stress of being in negative equity. On the other hand, be wary of turning down a lovely girl just because she wants you to buy a house - if you marry the right person, they will still be there supporting you through thick and thin.

Anyway, I'm no expert and the above may be a load of rubbish, so I'm going to conclude with some advice from someone else:

Maybe you'll marry, maybe you won't. Maybe you'll have children, maybe you won't. Maybe you'll divorce at 40, maybe you'll dance the funky chicken on your 75th wedding anniversary. Whatever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much, or berate yourself either. Your choices are half chance. So are everybody else's.

Edited April 11, 2012 by scottbeard

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

More than a little glib. I'm not sure the miners strike is a distant memory to many of those affected by the closures.

[AThirdWay]

Anyway, I'm no expert and the above may be a load of rubbish, so I'm going to conclude with some advice from someone else:

Use sunscreen?

[scottbeard]

More than a little glib. I'm not sure the miners strike is a distant memory to many of those affected by the closures.

You are absolutely right, and I have edited my earlier post accordingly.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

You are absolutely right, and I have edited my earlier post accordingly.

That's very decent of you.

I would still be very wary of saying we'll look back on now from 2040+ and laugh as someone who was worried in 1980 might look back on it now.

[scottbeard]

That's very decent of you.

I would still be very wary of saying we'll look back on now from 2040+ and laugh as someone who was worried in 1980 might look back on it now.

I never said at all that we would laugh at anything! We certainly won't be laughing, any more than anyone laughs at the Great Depression or World War 2. What I said is, by 2040 now would seem "like ancient history".

What I meant by that is: things that might cause us to worry and even end a relationship now, might seem - by 2040 - not to have been important enough to lose a husband or wife over after all.

[LiveAndLetBuy]

My ex and I split up about 2 weeks ago. We argued a lot generally but one of the things that really were the worst arguements was about house prices. A typical snippet from one:

Her: "You've been saying for 10 years that prices will crash"

Me: " They have crashed"

Her: "No they haven't"

Me "Yes they did, in 2007 and going lower still now"

Her " Well they haven't in St Albans"

Me: "Thats because its overpriced due to London, places away from London are still going down"

Her: "Well I suppose if you keep saying it will crash for long enough, one day you will be right"

Me: "(Fuming!) You have no idea really at all. One of these days you will see what I mean and come around to reality and the fact I was right all along. You need to read some articles online."

Her: "You can't get a better investment than a house if you have spare cash, look at all the rent you'll get instead of it sitting in the bank. I've advised my cousin (who has lots of money) to invest in housing.

Me: "Sit down, do the sums and work out the yield, it really is not worth the hassle. Money is better in the bank. (Angry here) Its people like you who got the country into the state it is today speculating with housing and watching too much property porn"

Her: "Why are you so angry all the time, you used to be so fun and now its all doom and gloom, you hate banks, builders, the government, the bank of england, councils, estate agents, mervyn king, in fact nearly everyone. Don't you think you could be wrong about this?"

Me; "Of course not"

Her: "Thats right, EVERYONE is wrong - you are right!"

Me: "You make it sound like I am the only person with these views, I tell you I'm not. As I say, forget your ideas forced into you by the mainstream media and do some research, theres plenty of it out there and use your common sense.......

I could go on but you get the general idea. Do you think I'm best off out of it!>>!??! She probably would have taken half my house anyway. I think the best idea is to find a girl who already has a house these days so you are on an equal footing.

This is a typical example of probably not to handle a girls nesting instinct but then again we never communicated well anyway when she got in that kind of mood. And an example of the damage high house prices cause relationships.

No small gonads over here. She was a big control freak at times but I wouldn't cave in over housing or most other things.

I had similar "discussions" with my girlfriend here in Madrid back in 2004. She was determined to buy in a cheap area on the outskirts because she was convinced house prices in Spain always went up, and that was the only area she could afford etc, etc. If she had done so she would now be broke and there's a good chance she would not now be my wife. We ended up compromising and clubbing together to buy a 1 bed flat in the best area we could find, while still being able to keep our mortgage payments reasonably low. In the end it worked out and 6 years later we managed to sell the flat for the same amount we paid for it. It still caused a lot of grief though, but at least she's now a lot less headstrong when it comes to deciding on where to put our money.

[Crashman Begins]

Who were those guys who called the nominal

Bottom again ? I'm gonna look them up

They were right .

And who was the guy that bought right on the brink of the crash & it had a sewage problem

In the back garden ?

[Spoony]

Hi guys, got some time to get back on here to post.

It sounds as if you have very different views of the world, and that the way you are arguing shows a lack of respect towards the other by one or both of you. This isn't compatible with long term happiness in my opinion (and experience). Ceteris paribus, get yourself another lass who has a world view more compatible with your own. Divorce is too expensive and destructive in the long run, and as a male you will come out worse from the deal. Mrs Woods and I have a similar view on the world, and when we differ we never have an argument like the one you outlined above (and I have some pretty strident views.) It is a blessing. The same could not be said of previous relationships and, from where I am sitting now, I am glad I didn't marry any of them.

This is exactly why I've not married yet. I'm 39 now (prospect of nearly 40 and no family yet scary) , and I could have married about 4 of my exes. Something didn't seem right with all of them, usually could I see myself with them for the rest of my life? The answer being no. I am scared stiff of DIVORCE. Guys are screwed especially when children are involved. It seems to have become that I'd rather not get married at all than to try it and risk a fail.

Perhaps you two were right to break up if you were always arguing. But I would be very cautious of letting housing dictate your relationship, rather than the other way around.

If you find the right girl, it won't matter if she owns a huge house or has no money at all, since you won't get divorced and so you won't have to give anything away.

The goal of our lives should simply be to be as happy as possible. And that has to balance both money and relationships.

If you disagree on housing that could definitely lead to unhappiness - I'll bet plenty of couples break up over the stress of being in negative equity. On the other hand, be wary of turning down a lovely girl just because she wants you to buy a house - if you marry the right person, they will still be there supporting you through thick and thin.

Anyway, I'm no expert and the above may be a load of rubbish, so I'm going to conclude with some advice from someone else:

No we split up over the arguements and her rush to have children and marriage. Plus her being strict catholic and me being athesist, not a good combo wedding wise, she wanted a church wedding no discussion. Best off out of that.

I had similar "discussions" with my girlfriend here in Madrid back in 2004. She was determined to buy in a cheap area on the outskirts because she was convinced house prices in Spain always went up, and that was the only area she could afford etc, etc. If she had done so she would now be broke and there's a good chance she would not now be my wife. We ended up compromising and clubbing together to buy a 1 bed flat in the best area we could find, while still being able to keep our mortgage payments reasonably low. In the end it worked out and 6 years later we managed to sell the flat for the same amount we paid for it. It still caused a lot of grief though, but at least she's now a lot less headstrong when it comes to deciding on where to put our money.

I'm glad you worked that one out. I don't know what to do now aside from trying to find a girl who already has a house. I have a big 'STR' fund so I am very wary of settling with a girl who will take half the house in cash. I usually give no idea I have money. Give an appearance of being hard up and frugal. I don't drive a nice car, I don't dress like I have money. Probably why I'm not fighting them off at the moment! There are so many money grabbing bitches out there and so many debt ridden consumer junkie girls out there. I think of leaving the UK quite often to get a reasonable house, change of scene and escapism from my life which seems to be stuck in a dead end job work - home timewarp. And maybe in the change of scene meet a decent woman.

That ex of mine has made me a bit worried though. Her: "Why are you so angry all the time, you used to be so fun and now its all doom and gloom, you hate banks, builders, the government, the bank of england, councils, estate agents, mervyn king, in fact nearly everyone.

I think she may have a point. Years of high houses prices and HPC forums (present company accepted) have maybe turned me into a winging old moaner? Not the best dating prospect. Has anyone else thought HPC may have turned them into bitter, twisted, grumpy old gits?

Edited April 20, 2012 by Spoony

[Argoed]

Hi guys, got some time to get back on here to post.

This is exactly why I've not married yet. I'm 39 now (prospect of nearly 40 and no family yet scary) , and I could have married about 4 of my exes. Something didn't seem right with all of them, usually could I see myself with them for the rest of my life? The answer being no. I am scared stiff of DIVORCE. Guys are screwed especially when children are involved. It seems to have become that I'd rather not get married at all than to try it and risk a fail.

No we split up over the arguements and her rush to have children and marriage. Plus her being strict catholic and me being athesist, not a good combo wedding wise, she wanted a church wedding no discussion. Best off out of that.

I'm glad you worked that one out. I don't know what to do now aside from trying to find a girl who already has a house. I have a big 'STR' fund so I am very wary of settling with a girl who will take half the house in cash. I usually give no idea I have money. Give an appearance of being hard up and frugal. I don't drive a nice car, I don't dress like I have money. Probably why I'm not fighting them off at the moment! There are so many money grabbing bitches out there and so many debt ridden consumer junkie girls out there. I think of leaving the UK quite often to get a reasonable house, change of scene and escapism from my life which seems to be stuck in a dead end job work - home timewarp. And maybe in the change of scene meet a decent woman.

That ex of mine has made me a bit worried though. Her: "Why are you so angry all the time, you used to be so fun and now its all doom and gloom, you hate banks, builders, the government, the bank of england, councils, estate agents, mervyn king, in fact nearly everyone.

I think she may have a point. Years of high houses prices and HPC forums (present company accepted) have maybe turned me into a winging old moaner? Not the best dating prospect. Has anyone else thought HPC may have turned them into bitter, twisted, grumpy old gits?

Indeed , I was only thinking last night after a verbal with some security guards ,how I've changed from a single , carefree, fun-loving 30 yr old who was more than capable of handling himself (but usually walked away) into a very angry and bitter boomer who would now happily descend into violence at the drop of a hat(but now, perversely, would be ill-advised to ever contemplate such exchanges).I thought increasing age was supposed to make you more reflective and contemplative. Not in my case ; if my anger was now encased in my 30 yr old body I'd be a danger to society!!

I'm free,I'm healthy and I suppose I'm wealthy - whatever that means- (work and not property!) so why am I now so angry ? I believe it's partly due to an increased awareness (age and net etc) of just how much we are being habitually and systematically screwed-over and plundered by governments, politicians and business. Their lack of integrity ,combined with their general incompetence (ie Ms May..... all Oxbridge/ Millfield and still fundamentally stupid) has become just too obvious but we all feel increasingly alienated by an overwhelming sense of powerlessness to do anything about it. The dream is over.

On the girl dilemma: as a reasonable and decent American on a plane told me recently when we were talking about countries and females :" British women are the pits... I'm afraid I was forced to agree with him. Look outside these shores for your soulmate.

As to

[FloraPoste]

Hi guys, got some time to get back on here to post.

This is exactly why I've not married yet. I'm 39 now (prospect of nearly 40 and no family yet scary) , and I could have married about 4 of my exes. Something didn't seem right with all of them, usually could I see myself with them for the rest of my life? The answer being no. I am scared stiff of DIVORCE. Guys are screwed especially when children are involved. It seems to have become that I'd rather not get married at all than to try it and risk a fail.

No we split up over the arguements and her rush to have children and marriage. Plus her being strict catholic and me being athesist, not a good combo wedding wise, she wanted a church wedding no discussion. Best off out of that.

I'm glad you worked that one out. I don't know what to do now aside from trying to find a girl who already has a house. I have a big 'STR' fund so I am very wary of settling with a girl who will take half the house in cash. I usually give no idea I have money. Give an appearance of being hard up and frugal. I don't drive a nice car, I don't dress like I have money. Probably why I'm not fighting them off at the moment! There are so many money grabbing bitches out there and so many debt ridden consumer junkie girls out there. I think of leaving the UK quite often to get a reasonable house, change of scene and escapism from my life which seems to be stuck in a dead end job work - home timewarp. And maybe in the change of scene meet a decent woman.

That ex of mine has made me a bit worried though. Her: "Why are you so angry all the time, you used to be so fun and now its all doom and gloom, you hate banks, builders, the government, the bank of england, councils, estate agents, mervyn king, in fact nearly everyone.

I think she may have a point. Years of high houses prices and HPC forums (present company accepted) have maybe turned me into a winging old moaner? Not the best dating prospect. Has anyone else thought HPC may have turned them into bitter, twisted, grumpy old gits?

I think you need to make up your mind whether or not you really want kids. If you decide you don't, you need to make that clear from the start of the relationship. Date women in a similar financial position to you and maybe even only women of your own age or older who are too old to have kids so there's no risk. That way no-one will be wasting their time. If you decide you do want a family you need to face the fact that having kids does tend to ****** you up financially. It's very common for women's careers to be screwed by having children and you can't predict whether you will have a child with additional needs who needs extra care, have trouble finding affordable childcare, have career progression stalled by no longer being able to drop everything and go off on a business trip at short notice, etc. When you find yourself looking at a childcare bill that is bigger than either of your salaries and you've both got your bosses on your back because you've been taking it in turns to stay at home with sick kids, you may find that one of your careers has to go. If you want kids but you're scared of being the only wage earner you need to accept that you will have to let your own career take a hit so your wife can continue hers, maybe even give up work altogether and do the childcare while she supports the family. That way you would also be more likely to get custody of the kids in the event of a divorce as the aim is to preserve stability for the children by maintaining the status quo.

[Venger]

That ex of mine has made me a bit worried though. Her: "Why are you so angry all the time, you used to be so fun and now its all doom and gloom, you hate banks, builders, the government, the bank of england, councils, estate agents, mervyn king, in fact nearly everyone.

I think she may have a point. Years of high houses prices and HPC forums (present company accepted) have maybe turned me into a winging old moaner? Not the best dating prospect. Has anyone else thought HPC may have turned them into bitter, twisted, grumpy old gits?

Becoming a hardened cynic, questioning everything, is a strength.

The other thing being, that attitude and insight has positioned you quite well financially compared to many others. It makes you less likely to leverage too highly up when you do come to buy another house.

My guess is more women in society will come to see your attitude as a desirable quality they are drawn to. Especially when so boom thinkers begin hurting, their credit access dried up, their dreams of ever rising house prices replaced by struggling to put even good food on the table, and are more prone to nervous breakdowns.

[Spoony]

I believe it's partly due to an increased awareness (age and net etc) of just how much we are being habitually and systematically screwed-over and plundered by governments, politicians and business. Their lack of integrity ,combined with their general incompetence (ie Ms May..... all Oxbridge/ Millfield and still fundamentally stupid) has become just too obvious but we all feel increasingly alienated by an overwhelming sense of powerlessness to do anything about it. The dream is over.

On the girl dilemma: as a reasonable and decent American on a plane told me recently when we were talking about countries and females :" British women are the pits... I'm afraid I was forced to agree with him. Look outside these shores for your soulmate.

As to

As to?... Anyway yes its the anger from being screwed over by the government for being prudent. I work with a load of people, not one person there has any concept of how the pound being weak effects petrol prices, or how inflation effects them and more importantly, why. If I raise any discussion about it goes over their heads or they look confused. They don't see how we are being screwed because most of them are the slaves to the system with high mortgages who don't understand financial matters. Ie sheeple. Women are usually the same, in fact you have an even slimmer chance of finding a woman who understands the economy, aside from spending crazy amounts on shoes, handbags, and MEWing. So from which countries would a man find a head screwed on, financially sound woman who happens to be enough of great person to be your soulmate?. I've dated an American girl once she was rather hard work but I still think American women are attractive despite that experience and would do it again.

Date women in a similar financial position to you and maybe even only women of your own age or older who are too old to have kids so there's no risk. That way no-one will be wasting their time. If you decide you do want a family you need to face the fact that having kids does tend to ****** you up financially. If you want kids but you're scared of being the only wage earner you need to accept that you will have to let your own career take a hit so your wife can continue hers, maybe even give up work altogether and do the childcare while she supports the family. That way you would also be more likely to get custody of the kids in the event of a divorce as the aim is to preserve stability for the children by maintaining the status quo.

I think it would be very hard to find a woman with enough for a house in the bank or a house 80% paid off. I'm going younger or at least the same age as me, but the younger they are the more debt they are in! (or worse financial position), so less chance again of finding my equal. I would like kids of my own but only if a relationship felt 100% secure, otherwise not bothered.There are plenty of women my age with kids already, so no responsiblity on me as they are not yours if it all goes tits up. If the wife had a better income than me I would not be bothered by that and would stay and do the childcare thing. Career wise I feel I have no career, in a dead end engineers job in which I live day by day, week by week, glad that the swinging axe of redundancy has missed me yet again. Its been like this for 8 years. But the money is good for what I do. If I lost my job I would consider moving abroad as nothing to keep me in the UK anymore.

Becoming a hardened cynic, questioning everything, is a strength.

The other thing being, that attitude and insight has positioned you quite well financially compared to many others. It makes you less likely to leverage too highly up when you do come to buy another house.

My guess is more women in society will come to see your attitude as a desirable quality they are drawn to. Especially when so boom thinkers begin hurting, their credit access dried up, their dreams of ever rising house prices replaced by struggling to put even good food on the table, and are more prone to nervous breakdowns.

That could be, I hope so but a lot of the women out there in this country would see me as a tight ass. It could a few more years of pain before I'm seen as desireable possibly.

BTW, if this post seems negative, I've just had a crap week at work, the work is very slow and the company is making a loss, and they are forcing people to take holiday. Thanks for the comments so far to my ramblings, keep them coming I'd like your opinions

[right_freds_dead]

resist

[Tiger Woods?]

Indeed , I was only thinking last night after a verbal with some security guards ,how I've changed from a single , carefree, fun-loving 30 yr old who was more than capable of handling himself (but usually walked away) into a very angry and bitter boomer who would now happily descend into violence at the drop of a hat(but now, perversely, would be ill-advised to ever contemplate such exchanges).I thought increasing age was supposed to make you more reflective and contemplative. Not in my case ; if my anger was now encased in my 30 yr old body I'd be a danger to society!!

I'm free,I'm healthy and I suppose I'm wealthy - whatever that means- (work and not property!) so why am I now so angry ? I believe it's partly due to an increased awareness (age and net etc) of just how much we are being habitually and systematically screwed-over and plundered by governments, politicians and business. Their lack of integrity ,combined with their general incompetence (ie Ms May..... all Oxbridge/ Millfield and still fundamentally stupid) has become just too obvious but we all feel increasingly alienated by an overwhelming sense of powerlessness to do anything about it. The dream is over.

I can relate to this. I'm 42 now (married at 40; first child at 42, and these two facts are not independent of what has passed economically since 1997.) I am no longer the person I was when I was 32, the age at which I truly began to realise that something was very wrong with the trajectory the economy was on. Angry at the venality that got us here and that continues to this very day, and feeling completely powerless to do anything about it. Impotent rage is not a great thing for your mental health. I was going through some old photos with friends a couple of weeks ago, and the thing that struck me most was how I used to smile. Very genuine. Not any more. Now, more often that not, I appear to carry the weight of the world, but that is what happens when a good future for you and your children no longer seems certain.

My new daughter is wonderful. I see my old smile in her face. A truly happy little creature (90% of the time). It's great to see her smile and, as of yesterday, laugh, but always in the back of my mind are questions about what the f&*k the state of the world is going to be when she reaches adulthood.

I'd like to "forget" what I know, but how can you when the lies, stupidity, venality, manipulation etc. are thrust in front of you every day, on the TV, newspapers, and spewing forth from the mouths of sheeple whose lives are so busy that haven't had time to really think and hence don't know any better.

[Snafu]

I'd like to "forget" what I know, but how can you when the lies, stupidity, venality, manipulation etc. are thrust in front of you every day, on the TV, newspapers, and spewing forth from the mouths of sheeple whose lives are so busy that haven't had time to really think and hence don't know any better.

Amen. But this insight is also what's not stopping me from living in a shitty flat in a shitty area of Newcastle

"Hold on, why are the rest of the flats being put on hold"?

-"Don't worry about that, they will be built"

"Yeah...let me have a think about this.2

google houseprices -> HPC.co.uk -> angry face.