jimmyhill Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Me and my partner have been looking to move for a few weeks and we are finding a large number of the properties to rent are houses that have failed to sell and so the option is rent or default on the mortgage etc. Whats surprising is how many of these houses we found are still advertised for sale whilst being up for rent and when you ask the letting agents ( wjo also happen to be the selling agents ) they deny this . My guess was that the owners are hedging their bets but what stops them from keeping the property online for sale after you sign a 6 month rental ? and then forcing viewings etc ? If your looking to rent then check the sellers section of a site and you maybe surprised to see the house for rents also still for sale. Feels a bit like tenants are just being used more and more by home owners. Has anyone else encountered this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ames Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Yes. Partner and 2 toddlers kicked out after 11 months of what we thought was a long term let. House has had two goes at selling since but not successful. Now happy in a house with much reduced rent. Bas***ds :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyhill Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 Yes. Partner and 2 toddlers kicked out after 11 months of what we thought was a long term let. House has had two goes at selling since but not successful. Now happy in a house with much reduced rent. Bas***ds :-P sorry to hear that on one level but good you found another place. I get the feeling we are seeing a new shift both in a moral sense and also in a house market sense.I was told by 3 different letting agents that they are overrun by people looking to let their homes as they wont sell and the people are facing bankrupcy and losing the house unless they rent it . The big problem is the price they need to rent at to meet the repayments is just not a price they will achieve in rents often and so theres a really messed up vicious circle kicking in here. I am reading this as an indication the housing market is close to collapse as most of the properties for rent are so over valued they wont rent them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyhill Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 Just to say ive taken it upon myself to do some research into this and started searching for properties for rent and if i can find them for sale. Right now ive search about 50 properties and about 70% are for sale also , some with the same agent who is trying to let and some for sale with one agent and for let with another. Ive phoned about 10 agents renting and 1 out of the 10 have said the properties for sale until rented , the rest have said ' long term rent 100% .No mention it was for sale when i asked was it for sale previously , just a ' its long term let ' . Whats funny is about 40% of those properties both for sale and rent still have for sale signs in the image used to try and rent them.....nice.. If your an Ea wake up and move the for sale signs or take new images if your hoping to decieve people into letting longterm on a let thats not that at all. The interesting thing is that many of those for sale and rent at the same time are using different images for both ads , not sure if thats due to different agents but it helps conceal the fact they are advertising rental property for sale at the same time. This is happening in the penzance to truro area or south west and all over.I am pretty convinced were seeing the first signs of a desperate attempt to find a way to pay the mortgage here as it feels desperate. I also found this via some private advertised property. We just spoke to an owner that said the property 'was for sale ' but they decided to let for a long term as she said ' the markets gone strange down here ' and in her words as long as you want the place is yours for let ...we specifically asked if the the house was for sale still and she said no and so i went online to search the for sale section in that area and boom.........there it is..... its still online for sale. Theres major cracks appearing in peoples thinking , desperation seems common.Ea's letting are playing the ' we have loads of interest ' when you try and lower the price and then guess what , the house stays on the market for rent for weeks and weeks. We have one Huge Lie going on down here whether your renting or buying tread carefully. Please pass this information on as i think people need to know about this stuff as its both an indication of where the house market is here in the southwest but also highlights just how much people are prepared to Use tenants now to prop up Their investments. None of it will work , a crash is imminant here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybernoid Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 + millions DO NOT RENT FROM THESE PEOPLE! Reluctant landlords will not know your rights or their responsibilities, they will be a colossal pain in the ass throughout. And the EAs are no better, you won't be surprised to hear. I've had EAs letting themselves in whilst I was out without asking my permission at all in order to do viewings for buyers. The 'owner's obvious preference is to sell, that's why they tried that first. And they won't let the rights of a tenant get in the way of that, nor will an EA if they sniff a sales commission. These are the landlords who won't understand it is your home, who will keep their belongings locked up in the loft/garage/wherever, who won't do any maintenance because as far as their concerned it will sell any minute now so what's the point. You really should check the property is not also for sale. Often the rental listing is almost identical to the for sale one, if the listing has measurements, a plan, photos with owners belongings, etc, DONT RENT IT. It's not really available for rent, it is for sale, and they want someone to give them free money in the meantime whilst they mess you about in ways you never even knew existed. DO NOT RENT THESE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyhill Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 DO NOT RENT THESE. i totally agree , i signed a 6 month contract from a guy a while back and then when the house sold in 1 month on the cheap he tried to get me out with pressure ( no cash offer ) and just acted like a a facist. Home owners and estate agents will always want it their way , what benefits them is god and the entire lot of them seem to view tenants as lower forms of life.Its surprising how bads its now got in that department. I spoke to an agent today who said not they have so many houses that wont sell for over 3 years that they are recommending all owners rent until they can afford to keep the house empty but she admitted most of her clients with houses for sale are close to bankrupcy and its a last straw for most. This is in the southwest and i'm not sure if its spread to the rest of the uk but the idea that its all well in cornwall is very wrong, its very very messy on the street. I just watched a freind knock £40,000 off a £170,000 cottage and one thats not been for sale for long and got it. Seller sare hyper paranoid down here they will never sell as there is a crash in the air and a sense of denial like that of Tony Blair in the glory years shortly before he retired to Isreal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ayatollah Buggeri Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 My guess was that the owners are hedging their bets but what stops them from keeping the property online for sale after you sign a 6 month rental ? and then forcing viewings etc ? They can't do that. Under an AST you have the right to 'quiet enjoyment' of the property, and while it remains in force even the LL himself is not allowed to enter the place except to carry out emergency repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebbedee Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 They can't do that. Under an AST you have the right to 'quiet enjoyment' of the property, and while it remains in force even the LL himself is not allowed to enter the place except to carry out emergency repairs. Not even then, but if you prevent them carrying out essential repairs could find yourself liable for the cost of putting right any damage that results. Its thier property, but its your home and only you and a judge can say who enters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ayatollah Buggeri Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 In relation to the OP's original point, what is the legal situation if an LL actually sells a place while a tenant is in residence and with an AST still in force and with a significant length of time left to run? Can the new owners evict the tenant and then the tenant has to sue the LL and former owner for breach of contract, or does the AST take precedence and the new owners can't evict until it expires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 In relation to the OP's original point, what is the legal situation if an LL actually sells a place while a tenant is in residence and with an AST still in force and with a significant length of time left to run? Can the new owners evict the tenant and then the tenant has to sue the LL and former owner for breach of contract, or does the AST take precedence and the new owners can't evict until it expires? I wouldn't expect a bank to extend a residential mortgage with sitting tenants... Do they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebbedee Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) In relation to the OP's original point, what is the legal situation if an LL actually sells a place while a tenant is in residence and with an AST still in force and with a significant length of time left to run? Can the new owners evict the tenant and then the tenant has to sue the LL and former owner for breach of contract, or does the AST take precedence and the new owners can't evict until it expires? If the LL has a genuine BtL mortgage then the agreement passes to the new owners, if the LL has decieved them as to there being a sitting tenant they have to pursue that through the courts. If its a OO mortgage then your new LL could be in the brown with thier mortgage provider if they too have only an OO mortgage, you have a valid AST. This IMO-had it been the LL lender then they can turf you out but not the new ones as they failed to do due diligence but the originals were actively decieved. Edited March 16, 2012 by zebbedee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ayatollah Buggeri Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Thanks. I'm being totally hypothetical and admit that there are going to be very, very few instances of this actually happening, but what if there are no mortgages involved? In other words, the LL owns the place outright and has a tenant with, say, eight months left to run on the AST. He then sells to an outright cash buyer who does not need to get a mortgage on it. Does the AST trump the buyer's right to occupy his new property immediately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepwello'nights Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Does the AST trump the buyer's right to occupy his new property immediately? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebbedee Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Thanks. I'm being totally hypothetical and admit that there are going to be very, very few instances of this actually happening, but what if there are no mortgages involved? In other words, the LL owns the place outright and has a tenant with, say, eight months left to run on the AST. He then sells to an outright cash buyer who does not need to get a mortgage on it. Does the AST trump the buyer's right to occupy his new property immediately? Yes as above, the new owner failed to do due diligence-his tough, if he was actively decieved (questions asked and answered with lies) he could of course pursue that through the courts against the previous LL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim123 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 In relation to the OP's original point, what is the legal situation if an LL actually sells a place while a tenant is in residence and with an AST still in force and with a significant length of time left to run? Can the new owners evict the tenant and then the tenant has to sue the LL and former owner for breach of contract, or does the AST take precedence and the new owners can't evict until it expires? the ownere will sell with (or without) vacant posession. It is for the buyer's solicitor to check this and if he does it wrong the buyer will sue him. The tenant cannot be removed just because the buyer didn't realise he was there. tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyhill Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 I know personally someone who signed 6 months a few weeks back and now the house sold and now he is being told ' we would prefer you leave now ' and ' the new owner is starting to demand access and when he mentioned his legal rights as you all mentioned to ' quiet ' the agent stated that didnt matter and just made threats of financial costs etc etc and said they would fight him in court. The bottom line is simple where i sit , its getting Way more Ruthless than it ever was and its getting messy , lies are being told to buyers and, potential tenants and everyone is being played for idiots , the tenants are the ones who really suffer and really being treated like ' rent boys ' but whats new. Gone are the days when you got a landlord in the private sector and had a long let and mutual respect , the entire markets now been taken over by estate agents letting and their need to cover insurance policies and also sell and max up their %.Its entirely f....ked here in the southwest. In relation to houses for sale and rent at the same time one give away is to ask if tenants are in the house , i asked this twice last week and both houses had tenants ' leaving in a few weeks ' as ; they need a larger place ' .........you wouldnt believe the lies........ and when i checked the houses were both in the ' for sale ' section of rightmove Blatant f.............g LIES ..... i asked the estate agents letting these 2 places specifically if the houses are for sale and they said no...........long term let.... and so what we have is deliberate lies and misleading in order to get tenants in for as long as it takes to sell and then threats when it sells.... really forget your rights , you will feel a prisoner no matter what and my advice is avoid renting any property for sale as tenants are being lied to and used to prop up the market and it needs to crash. Should i be reporting these lies to the companies head office ? or trading standards ? i guess they are all masons and its just seen as ' business ' for these parasites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebbedee Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) I know personally someone who signed 6 months a few weeks back and now the house sold and now he is being told ' we would prefer you leave now ' and ' the new owner is starting to demand access and when he mentioned his legal rights as you all mentioned to ' quiet ' the agent stated that didnt matter and just made threats of financial costs etc etc and said they would fight him in court. The bottom line is simple where i sit , its getting Way more Ruthless than it ever was and its getting messy , lies are being told to buyers and, potential tenants and everyone is being played for idiots , the tenants are the ones who really suffer and really being treated like ' rent boys ' but whats new. Gone are the days when you got a landlord in the private sector and had a long let and mutual respect , the entire markets now been taken over by estate agents letting and their need to cover insurance policies and also sell and max up their %.Its entirely f....ked here in the southwest. In relation to houses for sale and rent at the same time one give away is to ask if tenants are in the house , i asked this twice last week and both houses had tenants ' leaving in a few weeks ' as ; they need a larger place ' .........you wouldnt believe the lies........ and when i checked the houses were both in the ' for sale ' section of rightmove Blatant f.............g LIES ..... i asked the estate agents letting these 2 places specifically if the houses are for sale and they said no...........long term let.... and so what we have is deliberate lies and misleading in order to get tenants in for as long as it takes to sell and then threats when it sells.... really forget your rights , you will feel a prisoner no matter what and my advice is avoid renting any property for sale as tenants are being lied to and used to prop up the market and it needs to crash. Should i be reporting these lies to the companies head office ? or trading standards ? i guess they are all masons and its just seen as ' business ' for these parasites. You only have rights if you know about them, you can always covertly record said threats and then get the police involved and still be sitting there at the end of the AST, make the feckers go through the courts to get you out and then leave at the last minute. All within your rights but bvgger them back. And of course the new owner can go fvck himself for access, the moment he enters you beat the sh!t out of him coz as far as you are aware he was a burglar and then he gets done with beaking and entering as he had to- you had changed the locks. Edited March 18, 2012 by zebbedee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepwello'nights Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 And of course the new owner can go fvck himself for access, the moment he enters you beat the sh!t out of him coz as far as you are aware he was a burglar and then he gets done with beaking and entering as he had to- you had changed the locks. And you wonder why tenants get a bad name! Thankfully the majority of tenants and landlords are sane people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebbedee Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 And you wonder why tenants get a bad name! Thankfully the majority of tenants and landlords are sane people. Yes go on then take things out of context, replying to 'we would prefer you leave now ' and ' the new owner is starting to demand access and when he mentioned his legal rights as you all mentioned to ' quiet ' the agent stated that didnt matter and just made threats of financial costs etc etc', yes the agents are being reasonable there aren't they as are the new owners-dimwit. Fight fire with fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammo Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 If you are being harrassed or threatened by a landlord and/or letting agent, that's a criminal offence basically. If anyone is entering your home without your express permission, thye are in serious breach of the law. Who's to say that stack of gold coins you had on the top didn't go missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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