dogbox

Morocco - My Next Target

763 posts in this topic

Hi dogbox and the rest of the gang,

I must first say that i have read many forums over the past 6 years of investing but this is by far the best and most interesting.

I have not got time to write for long but all i will say is that dogbox is correct about morocco now is the time to invest before the tunnel gets approved.

I can say this for sure being a moroccan who lives in london and visits Morocco very often spanish buyers and companies are flocking to morocco every day buying up cheap property.


Morocco Overview .


For Westerners, Morocco holds an immediate and enduring fascination. Though just an hour's ride on the ferry from Spain, it seems at once very far from Europe, with a culture that is almost wholly unfamiliar. Throughout the country, despite the years of French and Spanish colonial rule and the presence of modern and cosmopolitan cities like Rabat and Casablanca, a more distant past constantly makes its presence felt. Fes, perhaps the most beautiful of all Arab cities, maintains a life still rooted in medieval times, when a Moroccan empire stretched from Senegal to northern Spain, while in the mountains of the Atlas and the Rif, it's still possible to draw up tribal maps of the Berber population. As a backdrop to all this, the country's physical make-up is also extraordinary:
from a Mediterranean coast, through four maintain ranges, to the empty sand and scrub of the Sahara.

In recent years the worst of the hustlers have been cleared off the streets (anyone who visited in the early 1990s will be amazed at the change) and the unofficial guides you encounter are fewer and more discreet.


Why Morocco - Financial

Morocco offers additional benefits from a financial standpoint which makes it a highly attractive
prospect for purchasers:

Low property taxes
Safe Investment - Notary supervised property registration similar to France/Spain
Easy repatriation of investment should you re-sell in the future
Only 20% tax on any capital gains
Property market booming - average rises of 15% per year achievable
Rental occupancy reaching 85% most years

Why Morocco - The high life

Anyone mixing in celebrity circles will tell you that Morocco is considered one of the most fashionable retreats
for the rich and famous, with an "inner circle" of over 700 internationally recognised celebrities frequenting the
country on a regular basis.
Famous home-owners in Morocco:

Yves Saint Laurent
Malcolm Forbes
Elizabeth Taylor
P Diddy
Barbara Hutton
The Rolling Stones
Jean Paul Gaultier
Richard Branson
The Beckhams

Climate

Nothern Morocco may just have the ideal climate. Temperatures are consistently mild all through the year,
rarely surpassing 30ºC/86ºF in summer months. Lows tend not to drop below a minimum of 10ºC/50ºF.

On warm days one can rely on a steady, comfortable sea breeze. Rainfall averages 150mm (6 inches) per
month - mostly during the winter season. Morocco (like Spain) has more than 330 days of sun annually.

Season Average Temperature
Spring 17ºC - 63ºF
Summer 23ºC - 74ºF
Autumn 20ºC - 68ºF
Winter 15ºC - 60ºF

Hope this helps guys and dogbox you are on to somthing for sure.

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[quote name='morocshock' post='357017' date='Apr 23 2006, 10:06 PM']
Though just an hour's ride on the ferry from Spain..... [/quote]

Thanks for your input, morocshock. Are you sure it's only an hour? Why bother building a tunnel?

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Dogbox what do you think of this in morocco

THE PARADISE BEACH & GOLF RESORT IS GOING TO BE ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT TOURISTIC DEVELOPMENTS IN NORTHERN MOROCCO. PHASE 1 WILL HAVE 500 LOW-RISE APARTMENTS AND TWO HUNDRED 3 BED 2 BATH DETACHED VILLAS ALL WITH INDIVIDUAL SWIMMING POOLS.

AN 18 HOLE GOLF COURSE WILL BE INCORPORATED WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT. THE APARTMENTS & VILLAS WILL BE CONSTRUCTED ON GENTLY SLOPING LAND - THUS GIVING MOST PROPERTIES AT PARADISE BEACH & GOLF RESORT VIEWS TO THE SEA.

THE SITE IS IN AN AREA OF GREAT NATURAL BEAUTY AND BORDERS THE FORET DIPLOMATIQUE. A STROLL AROUND THE GOLF COURSE ACCESSES A VIRGIN BEACH OF GOLDEN SANDS. JUST 15 MINUTES DRIVE FROM TANGIERS AND THE AIRPORT IN ONE DIRECTION AND 15 MINUTES OR SO IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION TO THE PRETTY FISHING VILLAGE OF ASILAH.

Full Description: PARADISE BEACH & GOLF RESORT PRE-LAUNCH OFFER
1 bed apartments, approx 70 m² including terrace
607.750 Dirhams (£38,465 @ 15.8 Dh/£) Deposit £15,386 balance by mortgage.

2 bed/2 bath ground floor apartments, approx 90 m² including terrace
828.750 Dirhams (£52,452 @ 15.8 Dh/£) Deposit £20,981 balance by mortgage.

2 bed/2 bath penthouse apartments, approx 90 m² including terrace, plus roof terrace
994.500 Dirhams (£62,943 @ 15.8 Dh/£) Deposit £25,177 balance by mortgage.

3 bed/2 bath penthouse apartments, approx 116 m² including terrace, plus roof terrace
1,326.000 Dirhams (£83,924 @ 15.8 Dh/£) Deposit £33,570 balance by mortgage.

Apartments will be in small blocks, 2 storeys high. Ground floor apartments, plus first floor penthouses with access to a flat rooftop sun terrace.
3 bed/2 bath detached villas with private pool (approx 7mx3m)
approx 135 m² including terrace plus 400 m² plot
2,210.000 Dirhams (£139,873 @ 15.8 Dh/£) Deposit £55,949 balance by mortgage.

I bought 2 bed 2 bath from a Moroccan company based in london called property borders.

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Hi muttley,

Yes in fact if you go tariffa spain to tangier on fast ferry it only takes 35 mins.

Hello freeman that sounds like a very good investment i will look at that myself.

Speak soon chaps off to bed now

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28km in 35 minutes. I'm impressed. I think I would like to invest in the ferry company!

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[quote name='Chris1976' post='355931' date='Apr 22 2006, 01:51 PM']
Hi dogbox

I'm with you on this one,i've got a spare 40k in about 4 weeks when my house sale goes through
and have decided its worth a punt after all even if prices do not go up and you only get 12 grand a year from it, its still comparable to the crap yields you would get over here,and would pay for itself but i'd have a lovely 4 bed villa for the winter
so i've been looking at the various agents offering this deal and am about to contact one
can you let me know who you went with?
I've decided to get the hibiscus villa,
by the way do you know what the interest rates will be on the 60%mortgages?

many thanks
[/quote]

Im going for Hibiscus also, as is a freind! That way the roof solarium should get sun for much of the day even in winter.

Went through a rubbish agent called Superior world wide.
Now dealing direct with developer - very helpful and accomodating.

This E/A is very very helpful and Id wished we had reserved via him info - @intracasa.com

deal with Jann (we didnt resrve via him as he wasnt available at the time). Say Mr Butler sent you.


I understand the interest rate is currently around 5.7% on a non - status mortgage. I suspect competition will cause rates to drop. .




[quote name='muttley' post='356541' date='Apr 23 2006, 10:43 AM']
The reason I wouldn'y buy there, is because I've never met anyone who wants to go back there.I went in 1983, and they had all year round weather then!
It's impossible to walk around as you are constantly hassled by the locals, and I mean constantly!
So that means you're staying on the complex.
Maybe Morocco will succeed in building an oasis in the desert, they managed it in Nevada, but buying this early is risky.
Of course that means the rewards will be greater if you are right, so good luck!!

However, I shan't be joining you as an investor nor as a holiday maker.
[/quote]

Mutt as I keep saying, this developement is a huge enclave. Most guests will remian on - site most if not all the time.

I agree buying this early is risky and sometimes I get stressed!

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Freeman, sound good value.

I think Saidia however will become 'the place to be seen' in Morocco and the fact there is a limited supply of property for sale on the development will force prices very high once the place is completed.
The facilities include designer shops (Armani, Boss etc) trendy London bars (Budha Bars), 3 gold courses, Polo lawns, helipads, 2 Carrefour supermarkets, aqua parks, athletics and football stadiums, wellness centres, an 800 berth marina all low rise and very chic. So more expensive than the development you mention, but I think well wroth it.

Its difficult enough to find property on the beach within a golfcourse in Europe let alone with all the facilities the site will have and year round weather!

Watch the weather on the Atlantic coast, my research says it can be cold in winter what with the winds.

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Hi Freeman Dogbox & Mutley,

yes it is for sure 35 mins from tariffa, on of course the fast ferry you can check this with travel companies.

And freeman i think the paradise beach & golf resort will be a top investment becouse for 1 thing it will be close to future tunnel link, and tangier region prices will always go up as its close to spain only 9 miles away.

I have also now found the site for this resort i am very interested in buying on this resort as well check the link [url="http://www.propertyborders.com/listingview.php?listingID=75"]http://www.propertyborders.com/listingview.php?listingID=75[/url]

Freeman please let me now if you buy and who with?

Dogbox the atlantic is not colder than the med in morocco would you believe it very slight changes sometimes more windy but this will be good for golf lovers, yes it can also be hotter than the med in winter would you believe it?

Saida will be a good investment as its part of plan azur and vision 2010 but so will tangier region asilah ect larache.

Hope this helps [b]friends[/b][u]

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Hey guys,

I bought an apartment on Dubai marina last year and am also immensely intrigued by Morocco.

What gives me confidence is the scale at which Emaar and Dubai holdings are getting involved in Morocco.

2 bed apartments (around 120 m2) with marina view in Dubai are now worth about close to £250k. It seems that the Moroccan prices are considerably less than this.

I’m unsure whether to look at Saidia now or wait until the projects from these Dubai companies are released. Marina de cassablanca sounds very appealing.

I noticed that Le jardin fleur prices seem a bit higher than other developments in Saidia – not sure why – guess my research will continue.

I am also very interested in Brazil (particularly the north east coast - close to Natal and Bahia) and will be looking into this further. Morocco is obviously more accessible for Europeans but Brazil will be a major economic force in years to come and recent stats show tremendous growth in tourism and this trend is likely to continue. Edited by Jetsetter

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Hi Everyone

We are buying an apartment in Saidia, its one of 228 luxury apartments called Magnum and are virtually on the beach, our apartment will overlook the golf course. As someone said, to get that position in Spain/Portugal/Dubai etc it would cost a lot more.
You probably wont have heard of Magnum because i believe they are all sold out, the block on the beach has been bought (or given !) by Deportivo La Coruno footballers so that should pull the crowds !!
Our apartment will come fully furnished and costs £110,000.
I highly recommend the company we are buying through, they specialise in Morocco, we have been on an inspection trip and the site is gorgeous.

If you would like contact details of the company I will be happy to pass them on.

I am sooooo excited about Saidia, it is going to be something very special.



[quote name='Jetsetter' post='358234' date='Apr 25 2006, 09:22 AM']
Hey guys,

I bought an apartment on Dubai marina last year and am also immensely intrigued by Morocco.

What gives me confidence is the scale at which Emaar and Dubai holdings are getting involved in Morocco.

2 bed apartments (around 120 m2) with marina view in Dubai are now worth about close to £250k. It seems that the Moroccan prices are considerably less than this.

I’m unsure whether to look at Saidia now or wait until the projects from these Dubai companies are released. Marina de cassablanca sounds very appealing.

I noticed that Le jardin fleur prices seem a bit higher than other developments in Saidia – not sure why – guess my research will continue.

I am also very interested in Brazil (particularly the north east coast - close to Natal and Bahia) and will be looking into this further. Morocco is obviously more accessible for Europeans but Brazil will be a major economic force in years to come and recent stats show tremendous growth in tourism and this trend is likely to continue.
[/quote]

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hi guys
i spent 5 weeks travelling around morocco in 2004, havent been back yet but i will, found the country to be facinating, very diverse country snow capped mountains, sahara dessert, lovely beaches lots of history. very low cost of living.
freindly people we had no problems at all and we do investigate all areas of towns and cities. once you get used to the culture,you will love it. just because it may be different to ours as respect to personal space and the way people try to sell you stuff doesnt mean its wrong.

ive also been a boat owner for many years and belive me if the marina that your talking about is as good as it sounds it will fill up very quickly. rember berths on the med can change hands for millions, some side kick of bill gates was looking for a berth for his boat aboat 4 years ago in the med,monaco i think, he ended up having to buy a 6 million pound boat off the berth owner just to get the berth he wanted!! then sold on the boat so he could get his in!!

good luck to those who invest there. i am investing in central portugal ribatejo region as i belive this to be the next big (safe) thing

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[quote name='HOF' post='359190' date='Apr 25 2006, 10:49 PM']
Hi Everyone

We are buying an apartment in Saidia, its one of 228 luxury apartments called Magnum and are virtually on the beach, our apartment will overlook the golf course. As someone said, to get that position in Spain/Portugal/Dubai etc it would cost a lot more.
You probably wont have heard of Magnum because i believe they are all sold out, the block on the beach has been bought (or given !) by Deportivo La Coruno footballers so that should pull the crowds !!
Our apartment will come fully furnished and costs £110,000.
I highly recommend the company we are buying through, they specialise in Morocco, we have been on an inspection trip and the site is gorgeous.

If you would like contact details of the company I will be happy to pass them on.

I am sooooo excited about Saidia, it is going to be something very special.
[/quote]

Hof someone posted on a Morrocan property forum that the Magnum properties had an awful clause attatching which restricted the number of weeks the owner could actualy use them down to 4 weeks!

Sounds far fetched to me but I thought worth mentioning.

I wont comitt to the first 20% until LeJardinDeFleur word the contract to cover all my concerns. They have verbally agreed to all my ammendments and tell me I will get a hard copy shortly.
My only real concern remaining is if the developer goes bust!

Like you I think Saidia will be incredible. I cant think of anything like this in the med, and as you say some big names are buying places. One of the worlds most upmarket bars have just signed up. Apparently its £200 just to get in the door! To think that by getting in early we are securing property in such an exclusive enclave is very exciting.

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[quote name='dogbox' date='Apr 26 2006, 10:36 AM' post='359507']
Hof someone posted on a Morrocan property forum that the Magnum properties had an awful clause attatching which restricted the number of weeks the owner could actualy use them down to 4 weeks!
[b]
[i]Yes I raised that with the developers and he said no problem once they have a Management Company in place i will put in writing that the apartment will be for our own personal use. As a matter of interest, which forum was that please?[/i][/b]


Sounds far fetched to me but I thought worth mentioning.

I wont comitt to the first 20% until LeJardinDeFleur word the contract to cover all my concerns. They have verbally agreed to all my ammendments and tell me I will get a hard copy shortly.
My only real concern remaining is if the developer goes bust!

Like you I think Saidia will be incredible. I cant think of anything like this in the med, and as you say some big names are buying places. One of the worlds most upmarket bars have just signed up. Apparently its £200 just to get in the door! To think that by getting in early we are securing property in such an exclusive enclave is very exciting.

[b]Only problem is we have to wait until this time next year to move in, can't wait ![/b]

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[font=Arial][size=7]
Hi Dogbox

Im seriously interested in Le Jarin De Fleur and have been trying to contact Jann via info - @intracasa.com
but to no avail can you email me contact nos please.

many thanks

[quote name='dogbox' post='357403' date='Apr 24 2006, 12:02 PM']
Im going for Hibiscus also, as is a freind! That way the roof solarium should get sun for much of the day even in winter.

Went through a rubbish agent called Superior world wide.
Now dealing direct with developer - very helpful and accomodating.

This E/A is very very helpful and Id wished we had reserved via him info - @intracasa.com

deal with Jann (we didnt resrve via him as he wasnt available at the time). Say Mr Butler sent you.
I understand the interest rate is currently around 5.7% on a non - status mortgage. I suspect competition will cause rates to drop. .
Mutt as I keep saying, this developement is a huge enclave. Most guests will remian on - site most if not all the time.

I agree buying this early is risky and sometimes I get stressed!
[/quote]

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[quote name='Angel' post='366973' date='May 4 2006, 04:11 PM']
[font=Arial][size=7]
Hi Dogbox

Im seriously interested in Le Jarin De Fleur and have been trying to contact Jann via info - @intracasa.com
but to no avail can you email me contact nos please.

many thanks
[/quote]

Im astounded how many people from this and other forums are going for these same properties - spread the word, it will benefit us new owners!

Ive PMd you re contact details.

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Can I ask a *really* stupid question ??

I mean, really, really stupid.

Has any one of you ACTUALLY been to Saidia ??

I have. Edited by Sold up and Renting Abroad

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[quote name='Sold up and Renting Abroad' post='367795' date='May 5 2006, 02:12 PM']
Can I ask a *really* stupid question ??

I mean, really, really stupid.

Has any one of you ACTUALLY been to Saidia ??

I have.
[/quote]


And what did you think of Saidia???

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[quote name='Jetsetter' post='367826' date='May 5 2006, 01:52 PM']
And what did you think of Saidia???
[/quote]


To be honest with you I'd rather wait and see the answers I'm going to get from those who are about to invest £000's before I say what I think.

My question earlier on was a bit rhetorical as I believe that those who are looking to invest haven't actually visited Saidia, or possibly even Morocco maybe.

I, on the other hand, know the country intimately.......

And it absolutely amazes me that there are people willing to invest huge amounts without having ever set foot in the place and are hyping it up something chronic and I dare say foolishly/dangerously. Edited by Sold up and Renting Abroad

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[quote name='Sold up and Renting Abroad' post='367838' date='May 5 2006, 03:05 PM']
To be honest with you I'd rather wait and see the answers I'm going to get from those who are about to invest £000's before I say what I think.

My question earlier on was a bit rhetorical as I believe that those who are looking to invest haven't actually visited Saidia, or possibly even Morocco maybe.

I, on the other hand, know the country intimately.......

And it absolutely amazes me that there are people willing to invest huge amounts without having ever set foot in the place and are hyping it up something chronic and I dare say foolishly/dangerously.
[/quote]

No investment is guaranteed, and going in early like this is a little unsettling, however as I keep pointing out 60 designer retailers and up - market hoteliers are establishing premises on the Saidia site, including Boss, Armani, Mango, Budha Bars and Barcelo group.

Why do you think they are doing this?
Also note that the head developer is Spains 'Fadesa Group'.

If I have placed a wrong bet Im in good company.

Also the Dubai 'Emaar Properties' (a key Dubai player) have broken ground in Rabat, its 4th announced Moroccan development costing £3.4bn.
Morocco is THE FIRST INTERNATIONAL venture the Dubai company is undertaking. WHY MOROCCO, afterall the whole world would welcome these key Dubai developers?
Dubai money is pouring into Morocco in a 10 year plan to skyrocket this nations tourism indusrty as set out in Plan Azur, the Kings plan.

Its all about having a vision and not getting hung - up on the present. Theactual town of Saidia is a fairly grotty place, but so what? The Saidia development is a vast self - contained resort and in time the effect will no doubt have a positive impact on the nearby town as tourism beginns.

Im sure the upmarket resorts in Spain were once little more than poor fishing villages.

Many expensive London boroughs were grotty down beaten places not so long ago where you could pick up unloved property for peanuts.

On joining this forum I tipped Estonia as a key investment target. I now see price increases have been higher than almost anywhere else in the last 12 months, yet the neg - heads at the time told me Estonia would not take - off.

Investments dont come with a 'green for buy' label, otherwise everyone would invest all at once.

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[quote name='Sold up and Renting Abroad' post='368573' date='May 6 2006, 11:54 AM']
What is there to do at Saidia (apart from lie on a beach) ?
[/quote]

My kids and I never tire of beaches although not a lot of sunbathing is done. For us there is nothing Manmade can surpass a day beachcombing, crab catching, fire making and mucking about in water followed by a slap up bbq and mess about in the pool whilst the sun sets then wine and a good book under the stars.

We find many people like ourselves who are different from the group that prefer hours wandering around old buildings and vineyards (yawn). We dodnt mind the occasional bit of culture and Im sure there will be the odd bit around Saidia, but if not it wouldnt bother us for a second.

Although 'ammenities' dont particularly interest us, the site will include 20 up - market restaurants, 60 designer shops (yuk), cinemas a souk, Olympic pool and water park, polo pitch, football ground, athletics stadium, tennis, wildlife reserves, wellness centre, gym, marina etc etc etc etc.

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Dogbox,

I am new to this forum. The Saidia resort sounds very interesting. I am looking for an overseas year round holiday home that i can use for myself and also rent out and potentially make a return from over the years. The resort ticks this box. Even if this doesn't bring the returns you are hoping, it will still be a very nice place to escape to.

However, can you advise the best way to get to the resort?

From my limited research, easyjet fly to Marakesh which is miles away, and atlas blue fly to Oujda, which looks like the nearest airport, however, these flights only operate from Brussels.

Can you let me know what the best way to travel to this resort will be and what will be the cost of travel? Is this a boat from spain and then a car drive to the resort?

Thanks.

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Dogbox, couple of other questions.

Not sure if I have overlooked something obvious, but I am not sure why you will get sun even in winter on the roof terace, when buying the single storey 'hibiscus' villa?

I also note that most of the villas fronting the golf course are more expensive and have been reserved for phase 1 only leaving phase 2.

Which kind of view have you gone for?

Thanks.

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[quote name='Sold up and Renting Abroad' post='367795' date='May 5 2006, 01:12 PM']
Can I ask a *really* stupid question ??

I mean, really, really stupid.

Has any one of you ACTUALLY been to Saidia ??

I have.
[/quote]


I have been to Saidia, insisted on a visit before signing on the dotted line - the town was sleepy and quaint reminded me of Agadir a little, however, the complex at Saidia is going to be breathtaking, even though its still a building site the potential is obvious.
We were able to see a show apartment, the furnishings are of a high standard and the finished site is on display in all its scaled down glory.

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