Another Russian Spy?

[debtlessmanc]

8 hours ago, Errol said:

Hilarious. The UK won't let the accused party see the documents, evidence and associated papers detailing the crime with which it is charged (a basic tenet of most legal systems).

 

Lavrov: UK Rejects Russia's Demand on Granting Access to Skripal Case Docs

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201803131062474225-russia-uk-materials-skripal-case/

Russia is intrigued to know how porton down detected their secret weapon and what they know about the others. I think it is the only utility Russia sees in arguing over it.

[blackdug]

On 13/03/2018 at 5:23 PM, Errol said:

People have speculated. It is a matter of fact. And what we are seeing now is exactly the sort of thing people were predicting more than a year ago.

The Ukrainian element is also highly likely.

So it appears to be your post that is complete 'tripe'.  Although we could have judged this quite easily for its lack of content and pathetic level of engagement.

Who are we Errol ?

It’s  you and your drivel that are lacking in content and it’s more than pathetic

I would certainly not class your posts as engaging in any level .....a good dose of Prozac is what you are lacking 

I could think of a million other things to do than to engage in your nonsense posts 

keep on dribbling away 

[zugzwang]

On 13/03/2018 at 9:11 AM, stormymonday_2011 said:

 Novichok is supposed to be held in two places in Europe - Russia and Porton Down.

Take your pick.

According to the available online literature it is claimed to be 5-8 times more potent than the deadly nerve agent VX ( incidentally a British invention) used to kill Kim Jong-Un's brother and to take effect in two minutes. Given its    deadly nature it is a little surprising that Skripal and his daughter seem to have been walking about for 2 hours before it had an effect and that we don't have dozens of bodies littered over the five locations which are said to have been contaminated by it.

My thoughts exactly. Unless novichok loses its potency after being stockpiled for decades, then its not novichok but some other random neurotoxin and the British govt is lying.

[Bruce Banner]

Methinks that Corbyn may have self destructed.

[debtlessmanc]

52 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

My thoughts exactly. Unless novichok loses its potency after being stockpiled for decades, then its not novichok but some other random neurotoxin and the British govt is lying.

apparently their are solids and have to be absorbed by skin contact, smeered onto car steering wheel for instane - takes a few hours, thats what wikipedia says anyway. Other very potent drugs are similar e.g. LSD and Hoffman's trip hours after handling the stuff.

[zugzwang]

23 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

apparently their are solids and have to be absorbed by skin contact, smeered onto car steering wheel for instane - takes a few hours, thats what wikipedia says anyway. Other very potent drugs are similar e.g. LSD and Hoffman's trip hours after handling the stuff.

According to this report in New Scientist the novichoks have never been used operationally. Perhaps that's why the attack failed? A deadly nerve agent that merely incapacitates rather than kills isn't much good.

Alternatively, the attackers were using a novichok-like substance they'd synthesised themselves from information in the public domain? Only the Russians could answer that question definitively ofc.

[debtlessmanc]

58 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

According to this report in New Scientist the novichoks have never been used operationally. Perhaps that's why the attack failed? A deadly nerve agent that merely incapacitates rather than kills isn't much good.

Alternatively, the attackers were using a novichok-like substance they'd synthesised themselves from information in the public domain? Only the Russians could answer that question definitively ofc.

The problem with using a nerve agent is that line between leaving the target alive and killing half of Salisbury is very fine. As is killing yourself in the process. This has to be state sponsored.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

3 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

The problem with using a nerve agent is that line between leaving the target alive and killing half of Salisbury is very fine. As is killing yourself in the process. This has to be state sponsored.

Tend to agree with this. If it were terror related then surely they would try to kill more people. If it were a non state assasin  then surely using another kind of weapon would be more effective and selective.

[zugzwang]

39 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Tend to agree with this. If it were terror related then surely they would try to kill more people. If it were a non state assasin  then surely using another kind of weapon would be more effective and selective.

But why take the risk of poisoning half of Salisbury just to eliminate Skripal, a geriatric nobody? Maybe Putin's deliberately seeking a diplomatic row with the UK to undermine the community of Russian billionaires who now live here?

[debtlessmanc]

29 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

But why take the risk of poisoning half of Salisbury just to eliminate Skripal, a geriatric nobody? Maybe Putin's deliberately seeking a diplomatic row with the UK to undermine the community of Russian billionaires who now live here?

I can buy that - I suspect that most of the Russian ex-pat community in the U.K. are not his best mates. That their money is -in his opinion- stolen.

what is the uk to do about this? The rusky billionaires rather like London. Should the U.K. expel them or filter them as “needs to be removed to placat Putin”,

its a terrible situation but releasing nerve gas in a uk city. That’s beyond the pale - really. Putin is just showing his usual arrogant petulance with a Russian problem.

i might add that Corbyn again looks like a tw*t. He should accept the Russia is dodgy and that they need talking to firmly at the very least 

[longgone]

1 hour ago, zugzwang said:

But why take the risk of poisoning half of Salisbury just to eliminate Skripal, a geriatric nobody? Maybe Putin's deliberately seeking a diplomatic row with the UK to undermine the community of Russian billionaires who now live here?

could be advanced isis impersonating russia, well they did bomb syria.  more than likely putin flexing the muscles to look good for his own plebs. 

[Sugarlips]

Excuse my ignorance on all of this but wouldnt it have been a whole lot easier for the agent to just let Skripal  hold his/her kitchen knife for them for a while?

[Errol]

Thus far still no evidence of any kind. Until some evidence is produced, and Russia or the UN council is furnished with such evidence there is simply no charge to answer.

Russia making perfectly valid points at the UN. This has essentially been some kind of kangaroo court up to now - the UK should be ashamed of itself.

Russia herself called for an open UN meeting.

 

 

UN Security Council representative Vasily Nebenzya vehemently denied British allegations that Russia perpetrated a nerve agent attack on UK soil, while imploring Council members to think critically about the incident.

Nebenzya stated that, following the letter and the 24-hour ultimatum from British Prime Minister Theresa May, Russia had called for an open, not closed, meeting of the Security Council, in the interests of transparency. “We wanted to make sure everyone sees what’s happening here,” Nebenzya said.

He went on to decry the “completely irresponsible statements” and “threats against a permanent member of the UNSC” made by British politicians calling the international community to look beyond “highly likely” type of proof, while reaffirming that Russia “had nothing to do with this incident.”

Nebenzya questioned why the case was being “dragged” before the Council, ignoring procedure. He alleged that the real reason the British government broke protocol was that it feared that “real experts” in The Hague would not be convinced by the evidence.

“We asked for samples of the substance used to assist in a joint investigation. This request was ignored,” he said. The Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons is located in The Hague.

“Let me repeat. Russia had nothing to do with this incident. The British ultimatum isn't worthy of our attention and is null and void,” he said. “We trust they will provide samples of the substances for examination for a joint investigation. This is not optional, this is a mandatory requirement. We have nothing to fear and nothing to hide.”

“We demand material proof of the alleged Russian nerve agent traces from this event,” he said. “Merely stating that there is incontrovertible proof is unacceptable. An independent analysis would be more appropriate.”

“For the British specialists to be perfectly confident that this was a Novichok agent and not any other kind, they would need a control standard for proof. It [the substance used in the attack] must be compared to a control substance,” Nebenzya stated. “They have a collection and they have the formula. In other words, if the UK is so firmly convinced this is Novichok, they have samples and formula and are capable of formulating it themselves.”

https://www.rt.com/news/421325-nothing-to-hide-nebenzya-unsc/

 

 

[Bruce Banner]

It's probably all just a Putin ploy to gain public approval (Russian) in the run-up to the presidential election....... "The great Putin kills a traitor right under the noses of the British government and there's nothing they can do about it, Putin rules... OK"

[longgone]

12 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

It's probably all just a Putin ploy to gain public approval (Russian) in the run-up to the presidential election....... "The great Putin kills a traitor right under the noses of the British government and there's nothing they can do about it, Putin rules... OK"

Maybe pseudo iron lady organised it to make the tories look good and tough. snap election. 

[Maynardgravy]

1 hour ago, debtlessmanc said:

might add that Corbyn again looks like a tw*t. He should accept the Russia is dodgy and that they need talking to firmly at the very least 

****** me. JC is just proving he's not utterly brainwashed. You have an 'ally' on one side who thought nothing of killing three and a half thousand of its own people (anyone who believes the official narrative on 9/11 needs a ******ing head test). So he shouldn't be condemned for being a little suspicious.

it was never used by the Russian military, it was only in the testing stages... the inventor of the gas actually fled Russia, his name is Vil Mirzaynaov, and apparently he published a book with the instructions how to make the gas and you can get it on amazon for twenty quid.

[Errol]

Personally I think Corbyn is an idiot, but his reasoned, rational response today made me think (marginally) more highly of him. All he has said is that we need to investigate and produce evidence.

It should be easily understandable by anyone that evidence is actually required. Theresa May standing up and gibbering stuff is not evidence. And if there is evidence then it must be provided to the accused party or parties otherwise there is nothing for them to answer - all you have is a verbal accusation.

[Errol]

4 minutes ago, Maynardgravy said:

****** me. JC is just proving he's not utterly brainwashed. You have an 'ally' on one side who thought nothing of killing three and a half thousand of its own people (anyone who believes the official narrative on 9/11 needs a ******ing head test). So he shouldn't be condemned for being a little suspicious.

it was never used by the Russian military, it was only in the testing stages... the inventor of the gas actually fled Russia, his name is Vil Mirzaynaov, and apparently he published a book with the instructions how to make the gas and you can get it on amazon for twenty quid.

Yep, it could have been made almost anywhere so evidence of the agent itself is not evidence of anything really. Porton Down even holds stocks of this stuff (for 'testing' purposes only, obviously ...).

[Sledgehead]

Just now, zugzwang said:

... the attack failed ...

The victims are on life support. Would a few exit wounds seem more convincing?

[Sledgehead]

Just now, Maynardgravy said:

(anyone who believes the official narrative on 9/11 needs a ******ing head test).

That'll be 99.9% of the Western world. They're all mad, of course. That's what I keep telling Elvis.

[Maynardgravy]

8 minutes ago, Sledgehead said:

That'll be 99.9% of the Western world. They're all mad, of course. That's what I keep telling Elvis.

Did you get that figure from the BBC?

Baaaaaa

Can't be bothered. take another look and if you still believe NIST then there's no hope. The west is addicted to false flag operations.

 

[Big Orange]

Didn't we have a even more loony conspiracy theorist who got permabanned years ago that kept on rambling with rainbow coloured text? 

WTC7 doesn't look like a controlled demolition because I don't see the "puff" of strategic charges before the building folds on itself (with fire alone doing comparable damage to the support pillars).

[zugzwang]

10 hours ago, Sledgehead said:

The victims are on life support. Would a few exit wounds seem more convincing?

Would have made a lot more sense than leaving a calling card marked 'Made in Russia'.

[Bruce Banner]

20 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Would have made a lot more sense than leaving a calling card marked 'Made in Russia'.

Unless the whole point of the exercise was to leave a calling card.

[Errol]

In an outrage, Macron/France - clearly agents of Putin etc etc  (wheel out all the tired Putin puppet nonsense here) - have asked for evidence! What an affront! Is not the word of Saint Theresa and MI6 sufficient to proceed to execution?

Surely it is almost unheard of for people to require proof?

 

France wants more proof that Russia was behind the Sergei Skripal poisoning before it does anything

• France wants more proof that Russia was behind the poisoning of Sergei Skripal before it does anything.
• "We don't do fantasy politics," a spokesperson said. "Once the elements are proven, then the time will come for decisions to be made."

http://uk.businessinsider.com/r-france-wants-proof-before-responding-on-britain-poisoning-affair-2018-3?r=US&IR=T