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reddog

Transport for London £1 billion budget deficit

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12 hours ago, LondonBound said:

So nothing to do with the economically illiterate labour mayor freezing fares (despite rising costs) in order to buy votes? How to drive TfL into the ground.

Just a small example of what Comrade Corbyn and the rest would do to the entire country given half a chance chance.

Your opinion is not entirely addressing the problem in TFL, you only want to blame Corbyn and Labour Mayor but they are only part of the problem. And fares is already too expensive in London.

Part of the problem are the expensive investment projects and contractors similar to Carillion milking tfl.

Quote

September 2016

Put at its simplest, Transport for London (TfL) needs more money but is getting less of it. A year or so ago, it said its annual income was £11.5bn, but the figure in its 2016/17 budget and business plan, published in March, was £10.4bn and that was before Sadiq Khan was elected mayor. Government cuts were already reducing the amount of cash coming in, and Khan’s fares freeze and requirement that more of the housing to be built on TfL land is “genuinely affordable” look set to reduce it more. Guardian

 

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8 hours ago, macca13 said:

I’ve said this on here before..

my gran lives in a block of 6 retirement flats.. used to be all retired British workers..

now 3 flats have people who have never worked in this country in their lives and don’t even speak English! 😡

we are paying to retire people from other countries, Sri Lanka, Korea and Poland..

how can we sustain our benefits system and standard of living? It’s all going to collapse.. 

seeing this all through the system, Northamptonshire council bankrupt and others in trouble.. this house of cards is falling! 

That’s why the Brexit vote which ever way it went was a sham. London seems full of non EU/non commonwealth immigrants - how did that happen ?

In truth with Eastern European heritage and the contribution Eastern Europeans have made to our economy - Poles, Latvians and Lithuanians. I can live with some retired Poles perhaps the price of their economic contribution. As I have said on here before the Baltic States and Poland are completely different from Romania or Bulgaria. Whenever people complain about the non contribution Romanian Gypsies make to our economy some soft headed left wing journalist trots out a Polish doctor or Latvian pharmist as an example of the miracle of freedom of movement complete propaganda. 

The simple issue with housing, schools/transport/the NHS is that it is a demand side problem not a supply side problem. However it seems this simple statement seems to enrage otherwise intelligent people when debating the subject (in my day to day life)

But I feel as the son of an immigrant ( I add that for irony )  - I have no natural home for those views and more importantly a party or campaign I can join. If I decided to campaign on my own I would have to probably divest my business interests because there are so many really spiteful pieces of s*** out there it would affect those and I have partners. I do not identify with the little England b*****  and have always described myself as a British European. I do love to enrage liberal left wingers by saying to me the vote was about an admin system nothing more - I cannot be anything other than European by blood. We have a saying ‘ because your born in the sewer doesn’t make you a rat ‘

The leave vote was such a surprise to the muddle headed left because the demographic was not understood )not unsurprisingly by people that live in the Cotswolds in £1 million cottages ) was that a significant amount of 2nd generation immigrants voted leave as well Turkish, Greek, Indian and Ghanaian as well as Eastern European . The trouble is to articulate it opens you up to stupid simplistic ‘ ladder up barbs’ when in fact we were raised in families who valued our country so much more than some people who have been and bred here for generations and realise what a wonderous place it could be and was for us. It’s rather like the shots of the earth you see from the moon. Our families came from the moon 60 and more years ago - we have perspective. 

I have never heard on of my friends parents trotting out the drivel that all immigration is good and all people from even their own countries were all good people who deserved a passport - Each case on merit 

They built lives based around British values infused with their own not the other way round, they left countries and worked in menial jobs for thirty years because they believed in the UK. It’s time we were listened to before it’s too late.

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, rollover said:

Your opinion is not entirely addressing the problem in TFL, you only want to blame Corbyn and Labour Mayor but they are only part of the problem. And fares is already too expensive in London.

Part of the problem are the expensive investment projects and contractors similar to Carillion milking tfl.

 

Demand side problem not supply side - If it wasn’t Carillion milking TFL it would be a Labour crony company.

London is out of balance through unfettered immigration. 

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1 hour ago, Peter Hun said:

London subsidises every other region of the UK.

London subsidises the rest of the UK in the same way the housing market subsidises the rest of the economy.  

You can’t burn someone’s house down, and then complain about homelessness. 

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30 minutes ago, BuyToLeech said:

London subsidises the rest of the UK in the same way the housing market subsidises the rest of the economy.  

You can’t burn someone’s house down, and then complain about homelessness. 

Its very hard to make the case of 'The City' - becasue really the only thing in London that generates tax revenue - subs the rest of the country esp. since 2007.

Basically, The City was using the UKs GDP to leverage up and trade, using the UK tax payer a a back stop.

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49 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Its very hard to make the case of 'The City' - becasue really the only thing in London that generates tax revenue - subs the rest of the country esp. since 2007.

Basically, The City was using the UKs GDP to leverage up and trade, using the UK tax payer a a back stop.

‘Based on the total numbers of jobs alone, ‘Professional, scienti c and technical activities’ was the largest sector in London in 2015 (Figure 1.14). However, when measuring economic output by GVA, ‘Financial and insurance activities’ can be seen to have accounted for just under a  fth of all activity in London (Figure 1.18), thereby constituting London’s most signi cant industry on this basis. GVA  gures further show that the value of the ‘Financial and insurance activities’ industry has grown by 212 per cent since 1997 (Table 1.4). This is the third fastest rate of growth for any industry in London, surpassed only by ‘Electricity, gas, steam and air conditioning supply’ (356 per cent), and ‘Real estate activities’ (305 per cent). In 2014, 51.8 per cent of the UK’s GVA in the ‘Financial and insurance activities’ industry was generated in London (up from 42.6 per cent in 1997). Indeed, London’s ‘Financial and insurance activities’ industry alone, made up 4.3 per cent of the UK’s total GVA in 2014. ‘Professional, scienti c and technical activities’, ‘Real estate activities’, and ‘Information and communication’ all also made sizeable contributions towards London’s economy, accounting for 11.2 per cent, 12.6 per cent, and 10.3 per cent of London’s total GVA in 2014 respectively (Table 1.5).’

The city is about 20% of the total GDP of London which actually shows if anything how different London is to the UK when an industry as powerful as finance is only 20% of the output.

London is a world city it is different to its host nation like New York, Moscow or Paris et al. Even within financial services the report says 50% is generated outside London so not quite the vampire squid it’s painted otherwise the figure surely would be higher 

Public infrastructure is over subsidised in London for sure in spite of this TFL thread - CrossRail, HS2 etc but moving that investment to Manchester or Leeds - will that create powerful hubs - unlikely 

I should state I am 100% behind scrapping HS2 and investing across the war of the roses land from Liverpool to Leeds but will it draw much away from London - unlikely IMHO

But with investment the North West and North East will prosper 

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1 minute ago, Peter Hun said:

London is far more than the City or finance 

Yes you are right it costs a lot more to live and work in it.......also it has lost its identity, full of chain eating places and big business.....money and the making of it is top priority, people are there to provide it.;)

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1 minute ago, winkie said:

Yes you are right it costs a lot more to live and work in it.......also it has lost its identity, full of chain eating places and big business.....money and the making of it is top priority, people are there to provide it.;)

Knew you would pipe up Winkie but your right sadly 😉

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3 minutes ago, GregBowman said:

Knew you would pipe up Winkie but your right sadly 😉

......things change, not always for the best, move with the times.....so much opportunity out there, seek and you shall find.;)

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2 hours ago, GregBowman said:

That’s why the Brexit vote which ever way it went was a sham. London seems full of non EU/non commonwealth immigrants - how did that happen ?

 

 

 

 

 

They have EU passports issued from another EU country prior to arriving in Britain?.

Edited by maffo in oxford

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3 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

Freedom pass is now 64 years not 60. increases to 65

The Freedom pass (national scheme) is not the same as the 60+ London Oyster photocard (TfL scheme). 60 year olds in London really do get a free all zones travelcard that can be used at peak times on buses and tubes and would cost a 59 year old about £3k a year.

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/adult-discounts-and-concessions/60-london-oyster

In the same tube carriage at rush hour you will have people in their 20s to 50s travelling to work paying 4 figures a year for the privilege while their early 60something coworkers are commuting for free.

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Predictably all the agenda-driven replies blaming Corbyn, Immigrants, Brexit, Lizard People, or whoever else the voices told you to have an imaginary grudge against today. Take your meds. The truth is that London transport systems are not managed as well as they could be and don't get central government funding hence are stupidly expensive and nobody goes on them if they can avoid it. Why are they surprised that passenger numbers are dropping!!1!

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1 hour ago, Funn3r said:

Predictably all the agenda-driven replies blaming Corbyn, Immigrants, Brexit, Lizard People, or whoever else the voices told you to have an imaginary grudge against today. Take your meds. The truth is that London transport systems are not managed as well as they could be and don't get central government funding hence are stupidly expensive and nobody goes on them if they can avoid it. Why are they surprised that passenger numbers are dropping!!1!

London Underground is terribly managed (hence so expensive). How else do newly qualified tube drivers get to earn £50,000 per year (far more than a newly qualified BA pilot)?!

LU should be held up a great reason why the state should not be allowed near the running of any commercial enterprise. The private sector is not perfect but it has an incomparably better track record than the state sector. 

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15 minutes ago, LondonBound said:

How else do newly qualified tube drivers get to earn £50,000 per year (far more than a newly qualified BA pilot)?!

Oops, that old potato.  Comparing unrelated salaries is specious but terribly popular.  When a job pays around £100k the prime minister's artificially repressed / subsidised salary is usually trotted out, especially by the Right Wing press when we have a Labour govt.

In rush hour a Central line driver will haul 1000 passengers per train.  He/she will run up & down the line at least 4 times at ruch hour.

So lets say 4,000 commuters.  4,000 x £30k (conservative, a few will be on £1-10M packages) = £120M pa.

£0.05M seems reasonable.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, LondonBound said:

How else do newly qualified tube drivers get to earn £50,000 per year (far more than a newly qualified BA pilot)?!

PS. I was paid as much as a middle ranking GPs during my best couple of years contracting as a systems analyst.  I have some formal IT qualifications, but no degree.

Should all GPs have had a payrise to address this scandal.  Apparently keeping the wheels on a payment system that turns over £2Bn pa from falling off while making major changes to it is insufficient justification..

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20 minutes ago, hotblack42 said:

Oops, that old potato.  Comparing unrelated salaries is specious but terribly popular.  When a job pays around £100k the prime minister's artificially repressed / subsidised salary is usually trotted out, especially by the Right Wing press when we have a Labour govt.

In rush hour a Central line driver will haul 1000 passengers per train.  He/she will run up & down the line at least 4 times at ruch hour.

So lets say 4,000 commuters.  4,000 x £30k (conservative, a few will be on £1-10M packages) = £120M pa.

£0.05M seems reasonable.

 

 

So let me get this straight. You are proposing that salaries are based on the total income of all 'customers' rather than on any skill or qualifications of the worker?!

As if I needed any more evidence that socialists are totally bonkers and live on another planet to the rest of us. 

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15 hours ago, Insane said:

I know people who are over 60 that are drawing their pensions still working and travel to work in London for free. 

It's completely crazy. A 2018 60 year old in London has had a great chance to buy a house when they were cheap and build up a pension. Why do they need their 20-40something privately renting coworkers to pay their tube fares for them?

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1 hour ago, hotblack42 said:

Oops, that old potato.  Comparing unrelated salaries is specious but terribly popular.  When a job pays around £100k the prime minister's artificially repressed / subsidised salary is usually trotted out, especially by the Right Wing press when we have a Labour govt.

In rush hour a Central line driver will haul 1000 passengers per train.  He/she will run up & down the line at least 4 times at ruch hour.

So lets say 4,000 commuters.  4,000 x £30k (conservative, a few will be on £1-10M packages) = £120M pa.

£0.05M seems reasonable.

 

 

No, the train carries the passengers.

The driver hold down a deadmans handle.

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im astounded how the tube could possibly lose money, anytime ive been there and i go maybe 2-3 times a year its rammed with folk. i also think its the greatest transport system ive ever known. im allways amazed at how little wait time there is, i jump of one train and walk to another platform and practically right away the next train pulls up. its an amazing system. 

 

i can only conclude the loss is due to, the fact ll the trains are being replaced, with trains that will be much more energy efficient and carry more passengers and some without even drivers, this will all create better revenue going forward. and also the money being spent on upgrades and new stations and lines. so i think the loss is an anomally due to a large amount of infastructure investment at the moment. 

 

i also think the monopoply on the london buss is a problem and the market needs opening up more, i bet stagecoach would love to get in there. 

 

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1 hour ago, jimmy2x3 said:

i also think the monopoply on the london buss is a problem and the market needs opening up more, i bet stagecoach would love to get in there. 

There's no monopoly on London buses, Stagecoach is one of the contractors to TfL https://www.stagecoachbus.com/about/london 

The buses are all red but if you look closely you can see which ones belong to which company.

Towns and cities which have multiple bus companies that don't accept each other's tickets are an expensive and confusing mess for travellers. The London bus contracting system seems to work pretty well, I don't see what would be gained for passengers by fragmenting it.

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