macca13 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: just a way of making money by burning electricity, even worse the more the price of bitcoin rises the more electricity will be burnt. I hear mining 1 bitcoin now generates around 60 tons of carbon dioxide. Exactly.. this sickens me to the core.. stupid humans destroying the planet ? because of greed.. it’s like the entire world is now fuktarded.. who’s got the most pixels and retagular paper.. show of hands.. ? what we need to do is open the boarders to 500’000 more people a year.. that will improve everything.. it’s gonna be great.. anyone know how you make cardboard boxes waterproof? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsn03 Posted January 12, 2018 Author Share Posted January 12, 2018 2 hours ago, goldbug9999 said: We will have to agree to disagree over the future of crypto but irrespective of that I think you make a good point. This guys exemplifies exactly what your taking about Thank you. Im not trying to debate cryptos chances, more the big picture at stake, but you get that. I will watch the video tomorrow. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDevil Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 2 hours ago, goldbug9999 said: We will have to agree to disagree over the future of crypto but irrespective of that I think you make a good point. This guys exemplifies exactly what your taking about He didnt do too badly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDevil Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said: I already mentioned Ripple as having a genuine use case. Kodak could be another that actually addresses a real problem. Kodak lol, a broken company that jumps on a bandwagon, haha. September 3, 2013 Kodak announces that it has emerged from Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection[99] as a company focused on serving commercial customers.[21] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenDevil Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, macca13 said: Exactly.. this sickens me to the core.. stupid humans destroying the planet ? because of greed.. it’s like the entire world is now fuktarded.. who’s got the most pixels and retagular paper.. show of hands.. ? There are plenty of coins which operate a POS stake model which doesnt consume vast amounts of CO2. Personally i think this is the way forward. If there will be regulation i think it will be on electricity consumption which will force coins to lower the requirement on POW. However POW is what secures the network, chicken and egg, if you stop POW you have to trust a central authority (which was the whole point of bitcoin to not trust a central authority/decentralised, DYOR) POS coins, Ethereum (soon to be POS), DASH, EOS etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 35 minutes ago, GreenDevil said: Kodak lol, a broken company that jumps on a bandwagon, haha. September 3, 2013 Kodak announces that it has emerged from Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection[99] as a company focused on serving commercial customers.[21] The problem they seek to address is real, large scale and there potentially is money to be made from solving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 35 minutes ago, GreenDevil said: There are plenty of coins which operate a POS stake model which doesnt consume vast amounts of CO2. Personally i think this is the way forward. If there will be regulation i think it will be on electricity consumption which will force coins to lower the requirement on POW. However POW is what secures the network, chicken and egg, if you stop POW you have to trust a central authority (which was the whole point of bitcoin to not trust a central authority/decentralised, DYOR) POS coins, Ethereum (soon to be POS), DASH, EOS etc.. But at what cost. In terms of electricity use and the resulting transaction cost overhead I cannot see bitcoin being sustainable in the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_g Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 A very interesting and well written OP a lot of which is also along my lines of thinking. I live in Taiwan and there is also a crazy housing bubble over here (more than the UK in my humble opinion). The way I explain it to myself is that there are a lot of incredibly wealthy people in this world, and they understand that with interest rates on the floor and the dilution of FIAT currency they need to preserve wealth. They do this by buying up housing stock/land (there must be very little return on investment over here due to the sheer number of empty properties). However, I believe that this will change in the (hopefully) near future, and yes, I think crypto-currencies could indeed be the trigger. To be more specific, I think it will be gold backed crypto. There are numerous companies that are now developing this idea which will combine the long term stability of gold with the instant transaction capability of crypto-currencies. Maybe the transition to a gold backed system could be the trigger for the HPC as the upper classes move their wealth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy74 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 6 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: the more the price of bitcoin rises the more electricity will be burnt No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 OP - do you mean lots of people will lose lots of money because they invested heavily in shares/crypto currencies based on this mania? And will that help trigger a HPC? Yes I believe that is very likely. I don't know/care about blockchain technology, I'm sure it is very useful. BUT the people investing in cryptocurrencies, and anything that SOUNDS like it is related, are just gambling. They are doing so to make easy profit, they are not validating the technology. Were the people buying tulip bulbs saying the tulips were of high quality? Of course not, they just bought them because they presumed they would increase in value. End of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majorpain Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 10 hours ago, canbuywontbuy said: You didn't mention what those downsides were. I wasnt planning to, experience has taught me that everything has a downside or risk. If you cant see it, it doesnt mean it isnt there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adarmo Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Grab_Some_Popcorn said: OP - do you mean lots of people will lose lots of money because they invested heavily in shares/crypto currencies based on this mania? And will that help trigger a HPC? Yes I believe that is very likely. I don't know/care about blockchain technology, I'm sure it is very useful. BUT the people investing in cryptocurrencies, and anything that SOUNDS like it is related, are just gambling. They are doing so to make easy profit, they are not validating the technology. Were the people buying tulip bulbs saying the tulips were of high quality? Of course not, they just bought them because they presumed they would increase in value. End of. How would it cause a house price crash? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canbuywontbuy Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 11 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: Where is the invention. I was working with databases that as each block was created chained it to the previous block along with a hash key that when validated would confirm that both the block and chain was valid 35 years ago. Around 5 years ago I came across a pension system that still used this technology. I looked at bitcoin a couple of years ago and after wading through the details, thought this is just a way of making money by burning electricity, even worse the more the price of bitcoin rises the more electricity will be burnt. I hear mining 1 bitcoin now generates around 60 tons of carbon dioxide. This seems a ridiculously expensive way of logging/verifying what is still a very small number of transaction. Also as the price rises and the number of miners reduces the risk of a party or nation hijacking the chain must become an issue. That not to say cryptocurrencies don't have a role, (Ripple does seen to have a genuine use case beyond speculation), but the benefits are vastly overplayed - as always happens with IT's next big thing. The two highlighted sentences contradict one another. If there is no unique quality to the blockchain that a regular database cannot solve, then Ripple and the entire crypto space are worthless and meaningless. You can't say that Ripple have a use case (and I agree with you there) without acknowledging the unique utility of the blockchain. Without the blockchain, Ripple don't have a product. Regular databases are great for the internet of information. You NEED a blockchain for the internet of value. Most people won't wrap their heads around that and just reply with "tulip bubble". Until they understand the idea of VALUE being moved from one place to another on the internet and not information, then the blockchain sounds abstract and boring and they're "not sold on the idea". Nothing new there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canbuywontbuy Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 59 minutes ago, Majorpain said: I wasnt planning to, experience has taught me that everything has a downside or risk. If you cant see it, it doesnt mean it isnt there. I also never said there was no downside. Of coure, as investors, there are obvious downsides. Without risk, there's no reward. I see it as my advantage that I can see the same things that other people are seeing (including big business), but not everyone can see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 I wonder how many home debtors have MEW'ed to buy crypto ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneyscam Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Saving For a Space Ship said: I wonder how many home debtors have MEW'ed to buy crypto ? There are many articles about this. Better yet, some who have made some nice gains might find they can't use them once turned back into fiat. Bitcoin investors struggle to cash out new fortunes https://www.ft.com/content/40c64992-f606-11e7-88f7-5465a6ce1a00 google the headline if you can't access it straight away This is my main issue with cryptos, the banks and govt don't like competition and regulations are non existent. Regulations are coming, you can be sure of that. Anything that affects the legitimate fungibility of cryptos to real world assets would be a death blow to them for me if they choose to go that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, moneyscam said: There are many articles about this. Better yet, some who have made some nice gains might find they can't use them once turned back into fiat. Bitcoin investors struggle to cash out new fortunes https://www.ft.com/content/40c64992-f606-11e7-88f7-5465a6ce1a00 google the headline if you can't access it straight away This is my main issue with cryptos, the banks and govt don't like competition and regulations are non existent. Regulations are coming, you can be sure of that. Anything that affects the legitimate fungibility of cryptos to real world assets would be a death blow to them for me if they choose to go that way. Cheers for that Bitcoin investors .. turned away by mortgage lenders and brokers who fear breaching anti money-laundering regulations. ........even after converting their profits to sterling, (mortgage )lenders were not satisfied that they could trace the source of the money. I thought they would just get mates / family to say they lent them the bitcoin converted to cash , though I know little of the red tape involved, so it may not be that easy . Edit: Perhaps they could go the self build house route , and pay for materials / labour with crypyto derived sterling. Get mates / family to buy the land & pay them back in crypto instalments Edited January 13, 2018 by Saving For a Space Ship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) On 12/01/2018 at 1:59 PM, wsn03 said: "One for discussion. Cyrpto currency is.......not the point of this thread. .....the current system is flawed........the distribution of wealth has been split very badly based on nothing more than age. ......the over 50s.......like holding all the wealth ...millennials are entitled...... ...the boomers of the world.......not really care.... Always interested in peoples opinions." Edited January 13, 2018 by Fence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneyscam Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, Saving For a Space Ship said: Cheers for that Bitcoin investors .. turned away by mortgage lenders and brokers who fear breaching anti money-laundering regulations. ........even after converting their profits to sterling, (mortgage )lenders were not satisfied that they could trace the source of the money. I thought they would just get mates / family to say they lent them the bitcoin converted to cash , though I know little of the red tape involved, so it may not be that easy . I had to jump through some ridiculous hoops to prove how exactly my deposit was built up over the years and having to provide all the movements in the account up to that point. I can imagine if they say "yes we accept the source of your deposit was originally in crypto but please show us how exactly you accumulated this amount?" would not be impossible but would be a right pain in the ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, moneyscam said: I had to jump through some ridiculous hoops to prove how exactly my deposit was built up over the years and having to provide all the movements in the account up to that point. I can imagine if they say "yes we accept the source of your deposit was originally in crypto but please show us how exactly you accumulated this amount?" would not be impossible but would be a right pain in the ****. Almost like they don't want your money, just your debt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 2 hours ago, canbuywontbuy said: The two highlighted sentences contradict one another. If there is no unique quality to the blockchain that a regular database cannot solve, then Ripple and the entire crypto space are worthless and meaningless. You can't say that Ripple have a use case (and I agree with you there) without acknowledging the unique utility of the blockchain. Without the blockchain, Ripple don't have a product. Regular databases are great for the internet of information. You NEED a blockchain for the internet of value. Most people won't wrap their heads around that and just reply with "tulip bubble". Until they understand the idea of VALUE being moved from one place to another on the internet and not information, then the blockchain sounds abstract and boring and they're "not sold on the idea". Nothing new there. I didn't say blockchain has no utility, rather that there is nothing in it that is genuinely new. Whether it has enough utility to justify its use depends on the value you place on avoiding the need to rely on a trusted party to administer a central database. In Ripples case it helps solve a genuine problem. Of course any global bank could have solved that problem long ago without using blockchain, if they had wanted to. Whether Ripple can genuinely offer lower overall transaction costs than a centrally administered system remains to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 16 hours ago, Funn3r said: Fantastic, I am over 50, I didn't even know I had all the wealth. How much will I get and how soon can I get my hands on it? If you did not waste your money on flashy Nokia 3310's and 14" colours tv's. You could have bought a home and road the wave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frederico Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 I can see the potential of blockchain but not crypto currencies. In a way bitcoin is worse than the tulip bubble because it doesn't really exist yet it costs a fortune to produce. You can't live in bitcoin, you can't eat bitcoin and you can't pay taxes or fines in bitcoin . I don't think most people will get burnt , I just think there will be a load of second hand graphics cards going cheap. I do think the country at the moment is a smouldering tinder box. Things are very quickly becoming desperate. If I new then what I know now. First of all wealth is not important, what is important is security. Steadily more people are being denied security, no matter how hard they slave or how well they behave, they will never have security unless they do something drastic. People just do not have a choice. When I was a young professional, I moved a long way to get any sort of a job (thanks Maggie) I lived in a bedsit and then a rented flat for a year I then lucked into a job in a location where I wanted to settle down. I again rented a small house and then bought a new build and have never looked back despite constant job insecurity. People are getting to the point where they have nothing to loose, they just don't seem to realise it. It really is a terrible state of affairs, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frederico Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 8 hours ago, dannyf said: No Err yes, it is a joke of a system. Actually it is pathetic and a very good representation to future school children of the stupidity of this age. That's if the human race survives long enough to correct its mistakes. Actually I fear humans as a whole may be too stupid and greedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kibuc Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, frederico said: I can see the potential of blockchain but not crypto currencies. Without cryptocurrency, what would be a reward for securing the blockchain (mining)? Edited January 13, 2018 by kibuc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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