Barclays Encourages FTBers to get into BTL...

[nome]

Can't see this mentioned elsewhere, banks still showing they're willing desperate to keep the BTL bandwagon rolling...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/barclays-latest-lender-encourage-first-time-buyers-buy-to-let/

[Ah-so]

34 minutes ago, nome said:

Can't see this mentioned elsewhere, banks still showing they're willing desperate to keep the BTL bandwagon rolling...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/barclays-latest-lender-encourage-first-time-buyers-buy-to-let/

It will only allow the BTL market to grow further. 

I suspect that the underwriting conditions will be fairly tough and will probably be taken up by those who for personal or cultural reasons have decided to remain living at home with their parents.

[Fence]

Nah.  Never fly.

The young are all anti BTL and anti boomer with morals, arn't they?  Or do I hear a bit of the old "yes but nos" heading me way. 

Me, I must be the only one in the trade without a BTL 'cause I build homes and was brung up to work for a living. 

Not that I'm nice and cuddly and soft and all that 'cause I aint.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Fence

[spyguy]

1 hour ago, nome said:

Can't see this mentioned elsewhere, banks still showing they're willing desperate to keep the BTL bandwagon rolling...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/barclays-latest-lender-encourage-first-time-buyers-buy-to-let/

'According to data firm Moneyfacts, Barclays Mortgage currently has the lowest rate for buy-to-let mortgages on five-year fixes: 2.17pc. But the buyer must have 40pc equity.

 

NatWest is slightly higher at 2.18pc with the same loan-to-value but a lower arrangement fee, £995 compared to Barclays' £1,950.'

 

[TheCountOfNowhere]

1 hour ago, nome said:

Can't see this mentioned elsewhere, banks still showing they're willing desperate to keep the BTL bandwagon rolling...

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/barclays-latest-lender-encourage-first-time-buyers-buy-to-let/

Let me guess.....BTL are not subject to MMR.

Let me guess again...encourage young idiot to buy a house using BTL then move into it.

These scumbags should have been in prison in 2008.

IMHO

[thewig]

"are you a young? renter? scumbag?

 

...do you want to become a young, rentier scumbag?

 

...Talk to Barclays, the scumbank who like to say DEBT"

[spyguy]

1 hour ago, TheCountOfNowhere said:

Let me guess.....BTL are not subject to MMR.

Let me guess again...encourage young idiot parents to use their equity to buy a house using BTL then move into it.

These scumbags should have been in prison in 2008.

IMHO

 

[stuckmojo]

20 minutes ago, spyguy said:

 

Yep. Loop in and leverage the whole family. ******ing hell. 

[winkie]

This is not new...... numerous people have had to buy a first time property with an unregulated BTL mortgage......it is the ONLY way they could afford to secure a place in their name.....paying Interest only, not earning enough income MMR rules to buy a normal Owner Occupier home....a property bought with help of a sizeable deposit and the help of a job/income of others.

[Bruce Banner]

Perfect for the Cherry Blairs of this world, BTLs for all the kids!

Edited December 15, 2017 by Bruce Banner

[BearsEye]

10 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Perfect for the Cherry Blairs of this world, BTLs for all the kids!

I thought one got into banking, the other is/was to be helicoptered into a safe seat being the salt of the earth working class man of the people like his parents, and the other a football agent.

All highly productive and got into such roles on their own ability of course!. 

 

[Kurt Barlow]

I got 30K sitting in a Barclays bond earning feck all. It matures in a week and I'm pulling the money out and buying Premium Bonds in Mrs B's name.

An additional bonus is not helping to fund this sh1t

[Timak]

I had a potential house move fall through recently.

One thing we considered to save the move was taking out a BTL loan against our existing house to purchase the house we were going to move to.

It was surprisingly easy - phoned Virgin and we could have a 5 year fixed interest only mortgage that would only cost £360 a month. 

We didn't go ahead but offers are still out there if you are equity rich. We only needed proof of a £25k household income (and pensions count towards that) to borrow £200k.

[SOLZHENITSYN]

4 hours ago, Timak said:

I had a potential house move fall through recently.

One thing we considered to save the move was taking out a BTL loan against our existing house to purchase the house we were going to move to.

It was surprisingly easy - phoned Virgin and we could have a 5 year fixed interest only mortgage that would only cost £360 a month. 

We didn't go ahead but offers are still out there if you are equity rich. We only needed proof of a £25k household income (and pensions count towards that) to borrow £200k.

If you did this, you would need to pay an extra 3% SDLT on the new property. 

Rental income from the original property would also (potentially) effect income tax / benefits etc.

[Venger]

10 hours ago, Timak said:

I had a potential house move fall through recently.

One thing we considered to save the move was taking out a BTL loan against our existing house to purchase the house we were going to move to.

It was surprisingly easy - phoned Virgin and we could have a 5 year fixed interest only mortgage that would only cost £360 a month. 

We didn't go ahead but offers are still out there if you are equity rich. We only needed proof of a £25k household income (and pensions count towards that) to borrow £200k.

Surely if you just lowered the price you would find yourself a well-qualified proceedable buyer.

No one is dragging anyone into BTL mortgages, no matter how 'easy' they are to get.  So you want to make a point how it's "so easy" (the lenders the big bad) to get BTL mortgage, when you've had a good look at taking BTL mortgage yourself.

It all comes down on the BTLer imo.  Without a BTLer applying for BTL mortgage, then no BTL mortgage is made (although would prefer to see lenders remove them... perhaps they will into/after HPC) and the greedy multiple house owners having taken the knock/losses.

Although you have your own view about housing/BTL.  "Sensible way to get income in retirement" - "More and more homes for special people" (already housing wealthy/rich) and renting priced-out for others.

I hope you do go BTL.  Get as many in there before HPC.   Although hard to change minds, even after 10 years on HPC, some still willing to embrace BTL for their own advancement/position.   It's why there is no "we' (collective good).  Just selfishness to extremes, and only way to rebalance through actual rebalance (IMO) (not cuddles and education and excuses that BTLers/HPIers "couldn't know" / "innocent") and having a stomach for it.

On 28/05/2014 at 5:06 PM, Timak said:

There are different types of BTL investors.

My parents-in-law would never have bought a BTL flat (indeed they were massively against it) however they had several hundred k sitting in a bank account earning 1%.

If they'd shopped around they'd be getting 2% at best in a savings account (maybe slightly more)

If they'd bought shares they might have gone up, maybe down and with dividends they'd be making maybe 4%. However in living memory the stock market has lost and recovered 50% of its value.

With the flat they bought they get a yield of about 4% (after costs and contingency), price might go up or down (up about £50k so far) in the long term.

Put it this way if they could get 4-5% in a savings account - like was common up to 2008 - there is no way they'd own a BTL flat. But as they want an income in retirement BTL is a sensible way of getting a BTL income.

Now levereged BTL for flats in Bulgaria is another matter...

None of them innocent.  All of them knowing full-well what they were/are getting into, in a housing affordability crisis/supply crisis for mostly GenRent.

And as I posted elsewhere yesterday, the few younger non-owning people who use Barclays/other BTL (without being owners) are not FTBs. 

They are investors in property speculation/rentiersims.  Doesn't matter how easy it is to get BTL mortgage - I don't want one.   

Choice.

Indeed it could be argued they are even more culpable for their actions, for they can see the shaper hardships GenRent young have from their own age group on more regular basis than older BTLers.  Although all of them (BTLers) know full well what they're doing imo.  "All-about-me."

 

Quote

Bland Unsight:  BTL is a symptom of deeper structural problems in the way the UK provides homes. Choosing to get involved in BTL as a leveraged speculator reveals something about who you are.

I agree with Venger that the conflict is so plain as the nose on your face that the leveraged landlord's failure (i.e. the extent to which they fail as a person who comprehends their connection to others) cannot be considered an intellectual failure.

Picking up your point about the banality of evil (which I also agree with), they might at some point profess that they were unaware of the consequences or blind to the consequences, but their excuse making is not credible; they know exactly what they're doing, why they do it and who suffers as a consequence.

They've happily turned hundreds and hundreds of thousands of younger households who wanted to buy into people who are forced to rent. They are responsible for the consequences jiltedjen enumerates.

We can 'medicalise'/pathologise why they have failed this test of character which others have passed (this is not how Richard Dyson at The Telegraph framed it in his ghastly article about the politics of envy :rolleyes:) or we can lean to ideas about morality and ethical conduct, but I think it's a reasonable rule of thumb to suggest that if you're getting banned from Shelter's facebook page, you are not one of the 'good guys'.

[Pop321]

54 minutes ago, Venger said:

Surely if you just lowered the price you would find yourself a well-qualified proceedable buyer.

No one is dragging anyone into BTL mortgages, no matter how 'easy' they are to get.  So you want to make a point how it's "so easy" (the lenders the big bad) to get BTL mortgage, when you've had a good look at taking BTL mortgage yourself.

It all comes down on the BTLer imo.  Without a BTLer applying for BTL mortgage, then no BTL mortgage is made (although would prefer to see lenders remove them... perhaps they will into/after HPC) and the greedy multiple house owners having taken the knock/losses.

Although you have your own view about housing/BTL.  "Sensible way to get income in retirement" - "More and more homes for special people" (already housing wealthy/rich) and renting priced-out for others.

I hope you do go BTL.  Get as many in there before HPC.   Although hard to change minds, even after 10 years on HPC, some still willing to embrace BTL for their own advancement/position.   It's why there is no "we' (collective good).  Just selfishness to extremes, and only way to rebalance through actual rebalance (IMO) (not cuddles and education and excuses that BTLers/HPIers "couldn't know" / "innocent") and having a stomach for it.

None of them innocent.  All of them knowing full-well what they were/are getting into, in a housing affordability crisis/supply crisis for mostly GenRent.

And as I posted elsewhere yesterday, the few younger non-owning people who use Barclays/other BTL (without being owners) are not FTBs. 

They are investors in property speculation/rentiersims.  Doesn't matter how easy it is to get BTL mortgage - I don't want one.   

Choice.

Indeed it could be argued they are even more culpable for their actions, for they can see the shaper hardships GenRent young have from their own age group on more regular basis than older BTLers.  Although all of them (BTLers) know full well what they're doing imo.  "All-about-me."

 

Before I began commenting on the site I definitely wobbled. A huge 6 bed Edwardian semi on the best road in town came up £700k. (Nicely done these are £1.1m).  I had £300k cash and the BTL option would have cost me around £1500 pcm....so I considered buying and effectively bridging until a sale of mine. This place would have let for £2500 pcm in its 'modest' state but I could see the interest rates were too low, yields too low in real terms, risk too high and if the music stopped playing this was a game changer. I would have been relying on real debt for the first time. (Ie any previous debt was more than matched with my cash in the bank...effectively a tax efficient offset arrangement). 

As you say V, although it was easy (and this was incredibly easy with Virgin) I still had a choice to make. We chose not to borrow rather stay in the very nice semi we have lived in since we were 21. 

Then S24 was introduced, Ros, holocaust....entitled. Made me look even harder at where I was, reenforced that this all looked 'too easy' and this move would have been a game changer in terms of relying on debt but therefore my action since has been the exact opposite. 

It is a market (@Venger..copyright ?) .  know I have been playing at a poker table and had a good run, many sales during the last 18 years for me (rather than Mew'ing).  I expect a collapse at some point, I welcome it....the cost to me will be worth the benefit to others. 

My concern is the 'entitled' will never be convinced that they were acting selflessly...they believe they are benevolent gentry helping the renters. Also they will blame any HPC on everything else except their own decisions....despite 'blaming' the boom on their super business judgement. 

It is too easy for those with cash to borrow....but it's also easy to steal sweets from the corner shop. But because something is easy doesn't justify doing it. 

As you say it is a market....and I genuinely believe the more the government fight against the natural supply/demand (interest rates, stamp duty, HTB etc) then the bigger the crash. And I hope no bail outs or tricks due to 'negative equity' victims....

[Bland Unsight]

12 hours ago, Timak said:

I had a potential house move fall through recently.

One thing we considered to save the move was taking out a BTL loan against our existing house to purchase the house we were going to move to.

It was surprisingly easy - phoned Virgin and we could have a 5 year fixed interest only mortgage that would only cost £360 a month. 

We didn't go ahead but offers are still out there if you are equity rich. We only needed proof of a £25k household income (and pensions count towards that) to borrow £200k.

Virgin Money's stock of mortgage lending at 31/12/2016 was 18.4% BTL, up from 12.1% at 31/12/2013. Plenty of lenders who will sort you out with a BTL mortgage if you want to borrow.

[Venger]

56 minutes ago, Pop321 said:

Before I began commenting on the site I definitely wobbled. A huge 6 bed Edwardian semi on the best road in town came up £700k. (Nicely done these are £1.1m).  I had £300k cash and the BTL option would have cost me around £1500 pcm....so I considered buying and effectively bridging until a sale of mine. This place would have let for £2500 pcm in its 'modest' state but I could see the interest rates were too low, yields too low in real terms, risk too high and if the music stopped playing this was a game changer. I would have been relying on real debt for the first time. (Ie any previous debt was more than matched with my cash in the bank...effectively a tax efficient offset arrangement). 

As you say V, although it was easy (and this was incredibly easy with Virgin) I still had a choice to make. We chose not to borrow rather stay in the very nice semi we have lived in since we were 21. 

Then S24 was introduced, Ros, holocaust....entitled. Made me look even harder at where I was, reenforced that this all looked 'too easy' and this move would have been a game changer in terms of relying on debt but therefore my action since has been the exact opposite. 

It is a market (@Venger..copyright ?) .  know I have been playing at a poker table and had a good run, many sales during the last 18 years for me (rather than Mew'ing).  I expect a collapse at some point, I welcome it....the cost to me will be worth the benefit to others. 

My concern is the 'entitled' will never be convinced that they were acting selflessly...they believe they are benevolent gentry helping the renters. Also they will blame any HPC on everything else except their own decisions....despite 'blaming' the boom on their super business judgement. 

It is too easy for those with cash to borrow....but it's also easy to steal sweets from the corner shop. But because something is easy doesn't justify doing it. 

As you say it is a market....and I genuinely believe the more the government fight against the natural supply/demand (interest rates, stamp duty, HTB etc) then the bigger the crash. And I hope no bail outs or tricks due to 'negative equity' victims....

Negative equity; HPI+++ has been my negative equity.  No equity built up on rents paid up to BTLers.  Homeowners who find their homes are worth less than peak/less than they bought them for (if HPC happens which so many people do not think possible) they would not be victims.

Good post Phil321 and I have a lot of time for your posts, even as a BTLer on the wind-down, as you've been very honest about your overall position, and never posted it being anything to do with "charitably providing homes" or any of the other run of positions the 118ers and other BTLers come out with about Government 'unfairness' to BTLers. 

That is likely to be so!   However will they be listened to?   My position, and that of many other people, has been one of ridiculous housing inequality - and power just hasn't wanted to know for so many years (but suggestions they are having to move on BTLers with all the responses from HM Treasury to the BTLers - including finally getting a bit snappy with Bosher).   

People See What They Want To See (Ralph Waldo Emerson + others); now reading BTLers in tax-exile having a go at benefit claimants.    Read the Bosher report for how she sees the world with BTL empire.   Maybe all their whine will be drowned out in a turn, especially when younger people begin to realise that it's not GenRent forever and real opportunity for them to advance in life emerges.  Bosher has already been given some reality from HM Treasury themselves, when she began getting snappy toward them as 'servant' types and "young people with no idea about life".   

And BTLers should actually be embarrassed imo.   The overall narrative (societally) could easily switch to BTLers who should be embarrassed for their actions.    I see BTLers are not impressed with one Labour politician (although she may also have an investment property herself) - with her having had bad experience renting in past, and her general position being that 'rich landlords' should STFU about UC, and help tenants who have less money/a few missed rental payments.   Would be harder for losing BTLers/HPIers to push back into that.  Of course they still have VI willing to help them do that now, including Telegraph in recent years, claiming GenRent just jealous, and that S24 is "Alice In Wonderland Tax"  - whereas Blandy described the BTLers as making "An Alice in Wonderland Attack on The Tax Changes."

Maybe the Barclays not-a-homeowner-but-willing-to-lend-for-them-to-buy-a-BTL, is more a matter of reinforcing other BTLers to keep buying at this stage of things?  Spin... news-story.  Get BTLers/HPIers thinking all still wonderful in trying to farm GenRentForever, with Section24 soon to ratchet down?

Just this snippet - I've bought this book about 10 times to give to other people.  Banks are there to sell money imo.  And at this stage of things, they are lending to those who can repay in event of a turn.  I really believe there has been a push on to bring in more BTLers, so the BTLers carry a correction, not the banks.  The BTLers put down deposit, and have equity in their own homes.  Yes the Barclays product a bit of concern, but as Bland Unsight once posted; "You can't read the tides by watching how a few waves break."  

Quote

 

Go It Alone - 1997 Geoff Burch

Beware of Smiling Bank Managers Bearing Gifts

The biggest whinges I get are from people who say that their bank won't lend them money, and the second biggest is the story of what the bank did to them when they went bust. ................. Look, I am not over-fond of banks myself, but they should be looked upon as kind of neutral. Bear in mind that they are in business to make money by lending more. Rest assured, if they thought you were certain to succeed they would rush to lend. .....If we can digress for just a moment, there is quite a sinister threat lurking here for you.

They will want to lend money to you at an inappropriate time. You will see over the next few chapters that the secret of success is being able to sell yourself to the right people. Don't you think the banks know this? If they think you are a good bet, they want to ‘sell’ you money. The clever bit about selling is that the seller decides when the intended victim will buy, and the subtle thing about buying is buying exactly when you want to.

...This should have been the happy ending, but now the trouble started. ................The rest is predictable. The property market collapsed, the bank took all the assets to cover the loan, plus his original company which continued to be successful. It was sold to one of my friend's most hated competitors.   ... had to die the death of a thousand cuts as the bank bounced cheques...

If you are a successful chocolate maker, then you are not a property speculator, and nor is your bank.  I know you are a genius, but don't let weasel words cloud your judgement.  Really it is better to regret the business risks you didn't take rather than the ones you did, but let's get back on course.

You are angry at the bank for not lending you money, but that is their business.  They even publish a book on starting your own business for heaven's sake.  That's a bit like the McDonald guide to vegetarian cooking, so beware of books written by people with an axe to grind. Read them, but remember who wrote them.

 

Quote

 

'You'll get the temples back once we've won the war, and probably lots of
new treasure to put inside them. They're going to fall whether we try to hold
there or not, and they'll probably be damaged if not destroyed in the
fighting. This way, they'll survive intact. And it stretches their supply lines
like crazy. Look; the rains start in, what? A month? By the time we're ready
to counter-attack, they'll have even worse supply problems; the wet lands
behind them mean they can't bring stuff that way, and they can't retreat
there once we do attack. Nappy; old son; this is beautiful, believe me. If I
was a commander on the other side and I saw this area being offered, I
wouldn't go within a million klicks of it, but the Imperial Army boys are
going to have to because the Court won't let them do anything else. But
they'll know it's a trap. Terrible for the morale.'

-Use of Weapons

 

Let them dance in further.  

A hunter with a visible snare catches few rabbits.

[spyguy]

1 hour ago, Beary McBearface said:

Virgin Money's stock of mortgage lending at 31/12/2016 was 18.4% BTL, up from 12.1% at 31/12/2013. Plenty of lenders who will sort you out with a BTL mortgage if you want to borrow.

Im not sure they can - btl to an ooo. Even in the challenger bank sector - idiots about to be insolvent, selling an io btl loan to an ooo is going to get them in trouble.

[spyguy]

29 minutes ago, Venger said:

Negative equity; HPI+++ has been my negative equity.  No equity built up on rents paid up to BTLers.  Homeowners who find their homes are worth less than peak/less than they bought them for (if HPC happens which so many people do not think possible) they would not be victims.

Good post Phil321 and I have a lot of time for your posts, even as a BTLer on the wind-down, as you've been very honest about your overall position, and never posted it being anything to do with "charitably providing homes" or any of the other run of positions the 118ers and other BTLers come out with about Government 'unfairness' to BTLers. 

That is likely to be so!   However will they be listened to?   My position, and that of many other people, has been one of ridiculous housing inequality - and power just hasn't wanted to know for so many years (but suggestions they are having to move on BTLers with all the responses from HM Treasury to the BTLers - including finally getting a bit snappy with Bosher).   

People See What They Want To See (Ralph Waldo Emerson + others); now reading BTLers in tax-exile having a go at benefit claimants.    Read the Bosher report for how she sees the world with BTL empire.   Maybe all their whine will be drowned out in a turn, especially when younger people begin to realise that it's not GenRent forever and real opportunity for them to advance in life emerges.  Bosher has already been given some reality from HM Treasury themselves, when she began getting snappy toward them as 'servant' types and "young people with no idea about life".   

And BTLers should actually be embarrassed imo.   The overall narrative (societally) could easily switch to BTLers who should be embarrassed for their actions.    I see BTLers are not impressed with one Labour politician (although she may also have an investment property herself) - with her having had bad experience renting in past, and her general position being that 'rich landlords' should STFU about UC, and help tenants who have less money/a few missed rental payments.   Would be harder for losing BTLers/HPIers to push back into that.  Of course they still have VI willing to help them do that now, including Telegraph in recent years, claiming GenRent just jealous, and that S24 is "Alice In Wonderland Tax"  - whereas Blandy described the BTLers as making "An Alice in Wonderland Attack on The Tax Changes."

Maybe the Barclays not-a-homeowner-but-willing-to-lend-for-them-to-buy-a-BTL, is more a matter of reinforcing other BTLers to keep buying at this stage of things?  Spin... news-story.  Get BTLers/HPIers thinking all still wonderful in trying to farm GenRentForever, with Section24 soon to ratchet down?

Just this snippet - I've bought this book about 10 times to give to other people.  Banks are there to sell money imo.  And at this stage of things, they are lending to those who can repay in event of a turn.  I really believe there has been a push on to bring in more BTLers, so the BTLers carry a correction, not the banks.  The BTLers put down deposit, and have equity in their own homes.  Yes the Barclays product a bit of concern, but as Bland Unsight once posted; "You can't read the tides by watching how a few waves break."  

Let them dance in further.  

A hunter with a visible snare catches few rabbits.

I think the fall out from io btl - unregulated commercial lending is going to be brutally painful for the btlers.

And the mo io btlers are living in this wierd leveraged bubble - rent comes in, mortgage goes out. Im a fuxxing business genius me! 100s of houses, all io, fuxxing dogs ****** i am.

Then s24 is going to hammer the overlevraged - anyone with 2+ high ltv io btl and an average income will find themselves massuvely short - tax man will be taking half the rent.

Then the io btl rates will be rising. Look at the fed. Look at how boe tracks fed rates - fed sets the tempo. Fed rares will be 2.5% next year. Boe, due to post Browning finances, has to offer a margin over fed rate - uk has poorer growth, higher debt.

Spread on io commercial btl is going to pretty chunky. 4 ltv, 20% down ooo is pretty low risk lending. Lending 100k to io btler is not.

[spyguy]

14 hours ago, Timak said:

I had a potential house move fall through recently.

One thing we considered to save the move was taking out a BTL loan against our existing house to purchase the house we were going to move to.

It was surprisingly easy - phoned Virgin and we could have a 5 year fixed interest only mortgage that would only cost £360 a month. 

We didn't go ahead but offers are still out there if you are equity rich. We only needed proof of a £25k household income (and pensions count towards that) to borrow £200k.

What your asking for, and what an io btl is, is a bridhing loan.

A non amortising loan is a bridging loan. The only thing you and the banks have wrong is the idea that they are cheap products able to be sold by high street banks.

Basel3 and, lately, BoE have recently twigged this.

[UnconventionalWisdom]

7 minutes ago, spyguy said:

I think the fall out from io btl - unregulated commercial lending is going to be brutally painful for the btlers.

And the mo io btlers are living in this wierd leveraged bubble - rent comes in, mortgage goes out. Im a fuxxing business genius me! 100s of houses, all io, fuxxing dogs ****** i am.

Then s24 is going to hammer the overlevraged - anyone with 2+ high ltv io btl and an average income will find themselves massuvely short - tax man will be taking half the rent.

Then the io btl rates will be rising. Look at the fed. Look at how boe tracks fed rates - fed sets the tempo. Fed rares will be 2.5% next year. Boe, due to post Browning finances, has to offer a margin over fed rate - uk has poorer growth, higher debt.

Spread on io commercial btl is going to pretty chunky. 4 ltv, 20% down ooo is pretty low risk lending. Lending 100k to io btler is not.

If there's a house price reduction of 20%, won't btlers with high ltv also be shifted to svr at the end of their fixed rate deal? Those rates are already double the deal rates and will rise quicker. Btlers will be utterly screwed when the plates stop spinning and sentiment changes. 

[spyguy]

4 minutes ago, UnconventionalWisdom said:

If there's a house price reduction of 20%, won't btlers with high ltv also be shifted to svr at the end of their fixed rate deal? Those rates are already double the deal rates and will rise quicker. Btlers will be utterly screwed when the plates stop spinning and sentiment changes. 

Yes.

Have a chat to a business owner who, stupidly, allowed a bank to 'help' them during an uptick. 

Its all good when tne banks happy and all the loans are being paid. Then the following happens - We need to reduce our exposure to xyz sector. Or a similar business goes bust, so they need to reduce their expisure or adjust the risk premium, which theybe under priced to wun business.

Theres a world of difference between consumer lending, which really is kids glive stuff, and commercial lending which is you, business owner, in a MMA arena against a few 8foot gladiators with clubs.

Btl lending is unregulated commercial lending.

[Bland Unsight]

58 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Im not sure they can - btl to an ooo. Even in the challenger bank sector - idiots about to be insolvent, selling an io btl loan to an ooo is going to get them in trouble.

Sorry, I think that a couple of wires are getting crossed here. Firstly the thread is about BTL lending to people who do not own their houses. One assumes that Barclays will be very careful to ensure that the investors do not then move into their investments as failing to do that would land them in pretty hot water with the regulator.

Separately Timak posted about the very cheap BTL lending in market (even for 5 year fix rate products).

I was just chiming in on Timak's point and highlighting that the lender he mentioned was going nuts for the BTL.

[spyguy]

3 minutes ago, Beary McBearface said:

Sorry, I think that a couple of wires are getting crossed here. Firstly the thread is about BTL lending to people who do not own their houses. One assumes that Barclays will be very careful to ensure that the investors do not then move into their investments as failing to do that would land them in pretty hot water with the regulator.

Separately Timak posted about the very cheap BTL lending in market (even for 5 year fix rate products).

I was just chiming in on Timak's point and highlighting that the lender he mentioned was going nuts for the BTL.

Rereading timaks maybe i have.

But im not sure how easy  the resi to btl, followed by new resi loan would pan out in practise.

At the mo, banks are letting btler bankrupt themselves. But have slammed the door on loose resi loans.

Timaks situation would need a lot of ducks to be lined up in a very short period.