New Zealand bans foreign buyers

[Fence]

23 minutes ago, TonyJ said:

 

Why would you would want to advertise the fact that you have something great to people, for whom it is virtually impossible for them to have too? Seems a bit of a smug and nasty attitude.

FFS.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Fence

[GregBowman]

2 hours ago, TonyJ said:

Millions might say they are desperate to leave the UK, but thats's only because we love moaning. If given the chance, I bet 99.9% of those desperate people wouldn't go anywhere. People just like to have a dream, it keeps them sane. But they wouldn't want to ruin the dream by making it reality.

+1

I think there are better lives to be had for some but have always thought when it comes down to it often a case of different sky same head.

There have been a few threads over the years and the list of options narrows when looked at logically 

If you are successful or run your own company the negatives can often out number the pros for moving country ( because comfort, the sun , insulation from everyday problems can be bought )

Conversely if I was a young person with a work ethic and some form of qualification or globally in demand skill - I would be at least trying it to see what the world has to offer 

[Will!]

9 hours ago, Foreverblowingbubbles said:

From our experience, it's not about whether the applicant quality when applying from overseas wanting a good location, it's purely based on what states and cities have currently defined themselves as 'an area of need' for those skills offered. If it's not currently defined as an area of need (and 2 years ago, the only major city in any of these countries looking for psychiatrists was auckland), there are no jobs overseas docs can apply for - no matter how good you are. It's the visa process, not the job application which is the barrier. So, you get into the country, serve your time, then organise a move (and in that case I guess the only good docs will end up getting the desirable job locations) 

No.

Areas of Need are places where International Medical Graduates who cannot get full registration for whatever reason can work with limited registration.  One of my job offers was in Sydney, another was in Canberra - not exactly Areas of Need.

[wish I could afford one]

3 hours ago, TonyJ said:

Why would you would want to advertise the fact that you have something great to people, for whom it is virtually impossible for them to have too? Seems a bit of a smug and nasty attitude.

Why is it virtually impossible?  If you want something bad enough...

What's stopping somebody who dreams of somewhere doing what's needed to get it?  That might mean education and work experience before the move is on.  It might mean starting a business.  It might mean finding an equivalent somewhere else in the world.  Creative thinking and some determination over a number of years can get you quite far.

Of course it's so much easier to play the victim card and just say woe is me.

[wish I could afford one]

6 minutes ago, TonyJ said:

The thread is about NZ banning foreign buyers. I would say that if a country bans foreigners, it is pretty good reason to think the country will not allow foreigners there. Are you suggesting people should move there illegally?

No, I'm just suggesting that NZ, like most countries, will allow immigrants.  They just want a particular type and if you want to go to NZ then you need to become one of those.

[wish I could afford one]

4 minutes ago, TonyJ said:

I have funds, a lot of funds, plus I am a doctor (retired), but I am not eligible to move to NZ, since the country does not want Brits with money. If you tell me how wonderful it is to move there, you are just rubbing salt in the wound.

If you want to go to NZ and have a 'lot of funds' why don't you apply for a Temporary Retirement Visitor Visa?  Then after 2 years providing you still have a 'lot of funds' you seem to be able to renew.  They don't seem to discriminate against Brits but do have some criteria you have to meet.

[wish I could afford one]

27 minutes ago, TonyJ said:

The thread is about NZ banning foreigners from buying. I would not want to move to NZ and then be forced to rent, which, amongst other things, would eat up my 'lots of funds' and mean that I would probably be deported when they reduced enough. I would want to move there to build a house, but since foreigners are not allowed to buy, it would mean I would need to rent indefinitely, which is the opposite of what I would like. I cannot claim my pension for several years, so I live off bank interest, which even with 'lots of funds', is poverty line.

Fair enough, it doesn't suit you.  So why don't you go somewhere else that does suit you?

[wish I could afford one]

2 minutes ago, TonyJ said:

I've looked very deeply into many places from Spain to Belize, South Africa to Mexico, the Bahamas to Italy, France to Jamaica, and so far there is always a big obvious negative, or a hidden catch that is not in the brochures. If you are low to middling wealthy, but not a pensioner, the barriers to moving overseas are pretty massive. It would actually be much easier for a younger person with no funds, but a transportable skill to start a new life if they can earn money from that location, and if they would be allowed to stay beyond a holiday.

I agree that there is no Utopia.  It's about which location brings you and your family the most value.

It looks like you've looked quite widely.  I'd be interested to know why Spain, for example, wouldn't work given your situation?

As I understand it you need to demonstrate not much more than:

• Earnings which if you have 'lots of funds' shouldn't be difficult
• Healthcare.  1 year private with no excess then you can join the Convenio Especiale.
• A place to live - rented or bought

[wish I could afford one]

6 minutes ago, TonyJ said:

The Impuesto sobre el Patrimonio (wealth tax). It would mean that if I spent longer than 183 days in Spain in a year, I would need to pay an effective tax rate of at least 100% of my income. It just would not be possible to survive in a country where one's annual tax bill is more than one's annual income.

The wealth tax gives you a €700,000 tax-free allowance per person.  On top of that you get a further main home relief of up to €300,000 if you're a Spanish resident.  So a couple could have up to €2M before you even see the tax.  Pension rights (other than purchased annuities) are also not included in the calculations.  That is a lot of wealth to generate a good 'income' off before you even come into the wealth tax net.  If you have a lot more than that are you sweating your assets for income enough?

If your situation doesn't suit Spain have you considered Malta or Cyprus?  If you are asset 'rich' and income 'poor' they could be more as they don't have CGT and have favourable non-dom rules.

How about Portugal as highlighted on another thread?

[wish I could afford one]

5 minutes ago, TonyJ said:

I already did the calculations for Spain, and this year, my tax bill there would equal or exceed my income, and that is even before accountants and lawyers fees. Naive foreigners are always reliant on expensive professionals to help them navigate complex bureaucratic systems, of which they are ignorant and cannot just read through the forms themselves. When building, I imagine the language barrier would be expensive, and mean poor control over a project, since without a translator you cannot speak on a day to day basis about technical matters with Spanish speaking contractors. I decided that building is only really feasible in an English speaking country.

From what I have seen, Malta is a popular and crowded country, and building land is correspondingly expensive. I recently looked at building land in Cyprus on RM. Asking prices seem high and seemingly bad value for money, considering it has a reputation as one of the most down-market locations in Europe, and there is the cloud of potential invasion hanging over it. Portugal has a wealth tax, too. Not sure how the figures would relate to my circumstance, but I'm wary of any country that accepts the principle of a wealth tax, as it can easily and is often only increased. 

Why wouldn't you want to learn the language of the country you want to live in?

Re Malta.  Have you looked in the North or even on Gozo?  I never considered buying land on Malta and was always looking at an old House of Character or Farmhouse which we could make our own.  There is some lovely stuff out there.  Something like this would have done us proud:

Price: EUR330,000

With Cyprus there is the Title Deeds Problem to be wary of.  We would always by second hand rather than new.

Have you actually visited any of the locations you considered?  My experience is that the web only tells a very small portion of the story.  I've tried to visit any of the shortlist in both the summer and winter.

[wish I could afford one]

1 minute ago, TonyJ said:

I have visited most of the countries that seemed promising, but not everywhere. Regarding learning the language, that is not the issue. The issue would be learning it to the degree of fluency that would be required for detailed communication about technical stuff, which not even a non-professional fluent local would understand. That requires many years of immersion and experience. The house in Malta looks very nice, but I am big into garden design and would want a decent sized garden. I almost bought a couple of hectares in Spain a few years ago, and more recently the same in Sicily (it is only since then I realised about wealth taxes, and that Italy has one too, so it was not the reason i pulled out). Property in Italy is very expensive, except Sicily.

We looked at Puglia, Italy as a region as we were very attracted to the Trullo's there.  In winter the place was abandoned from what I could see.  Not for us.

Sicily is lovely to visit.  Never considered it a place to live.

Malta and big gardens.  Fair enough.  I agree you need big money if you want a big garden.

Why not move and buy somewhere with a big garden secondhand?  Maybe in a few years when you're competent in the language you could then start to build your dream.

Have you considered that maybe the UK is the best for you?  I know it's not for us but we want very different things to your good self. 

[crashmonitor]

Just looked at some stats. NZ has 7%  of the population of the UK, the land mass is greater, the per capita GDP is slightly smaller than the UK (96%) and the build quality of houses would by and large fail UK standards...kit built comes to mind.

NZ houses are significantly higher priced than the UK at 446k US dollars on average ( one million US dollars in Auckland). ( November 2017)

We've got a problem, they have too by the look of things.

Edited March 18, 2018 by crashmonitor

[wish I could afford one]

1 minute ago, TonyJ said:

Expensive property on the continent often takes many years to sell, so once you buy, I think you should consider it as a permanent home, rather than a stop gap. Yes, I have come to the realisation that the UK, despite its faults has the upper hand, if only the market would change from a sellers' market into a buyers' market. The worst thing I find about searching here are the games estate agents play to try to convince buyers that they are supplicants, who should rightfully be ignored by the all-powerful sellers, unless they beg very nicely and open their wallets to let the sellers take whatever they want out of it.

I don't think it's just expensive property either.  Some homes on the continent in the EUR300k range that I looked at a year ago are still for sale today.

Of course nowhere is perfect.

Good luck with it.

[crashmonitor]

1 hour ago, TonyJ said:

And they have earthquakes...

Well may be there is method, build something with a single skin and a tin roof that resembles a mobile home and come the quake it is easily replaced.

[Foreverblowingbubbles]

11 hours ago, Will! said:

No.

Areas of Need are places where International Medical Graduates who cannot get full registration for whatever reason can work with limited registration.  One of my job offers was in Sydney, another was in Canberra - not exactly Areas of Need.

When was this will? I'm guessing more than 2 or 3 years ago, as the rules were tightened

[Will!]

14 minutes ago, Foreverblowingbubbles said:

When was this will? I'm guessing more than 2 or 3 years ago, as the rules were tightened

Late 2016.

[Foreverblowingbubbles]

1 minute ago, Will! said:

Late 2016.

Actually, thinking about it she may have been classed as part qualified, because she hadn't done child psychiatry experience, only adults and elderly. 

It was odd, as she was clinical lead at the Royal London hospital, so she had gone a long way in her career by her mid 30s. But i think there was an issue regarding her lack of child experience thinking back. 

She was hardly a mediocre applicant though. Most people don't get consultant at her age, let alone clinical lead

[Will!]

12 minutes ago, Foreverblowingbubbles said:

It was odd, as she was clinical lead at the Royal London hospital, so she had gone a long way in her career by her mid 30s. But i think there was an issue regarding her lack of child experience thinking back. 

She was hardly a mediocre applicant though. Most people don't get consultant at her age, let alone clinical lead

No offence, but to the Kiwis/Aussies that might be worth little.  They know about the NHS and plenty know about RLH.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Will!
Edited for sense.

[Foreverblowingbubbles]

9 hours ago, TonyJ said:

I have funds, a lot of funds, plus I am a doctor (retired), but I am not eligible to move to NZ, since the country does not want Brits with money. If you tell me how wonderful it is to move there, you are just rubbing salt in the wound.

If you have the funds and want to move out here and work, then buy a business in new zealand and move here on this visa https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/investing-in-nz/visas/investor visa.

By the way, you don't need all that in cash - you could leverage the business a bit to make the cut off point if you only had half

If you want to move to another country just to be retired, is it any surprise that they don't want you? Other people talking about their experiences aren't doing it to rub salt in your wounds. As wicao said, if you have the will and time on your side, you can make a new life more or less where ever you want. 

If you're really upset about not living overseas, consider somewhere like seville or Lisbon which you could pack your bags and go to tomorrow

[Mancunian284]

5 hours ago, crashmonitor said:

Just looked at some stats. NZ has 7%  of the population of the UK, the land mass is greater, the per capita GDP is slightly smaller than the UK (96%) and the build quality of houses would by and large fail UK standards...kit built comes to mind.

NZ houses are significantly higher priced than the UK at 446k US dollars on average ( one million US dollars in Auckland). ( November 2017)

We've got a problem, they have too by the look of things.

Freezing cold indoors during the winter too.  Not only are the not insulated with no double glazing but they rarely have central heating, just heat pumps so they are often damp too.  My ex was from Christchurch and we used to visit his family quite often when we lived in Aus.  People have indoor gloves, fingerless ones, to wear in the winter.  NZ also has a high rate of respiratory problems due to the damp and cold houses.  Ex’s family wasn’t poor either, I’d say lower middle class.

[Foreverblowingbubbles]

13 minutes ago, Will! said:

No offence, but to the Kiwis/Aussies that might be worth little.  They know about the NHS and plenty know about RLH.

Ok we're way off topic. Don't want to derail the thread too much

Can discuss on another thread if you want to create one? 

Theres a lot of lobbying for the banning of foreign buyers to be watered down here. Companies listed on the nz stock exchange such as elderly care homes are saying they will be blocked from building and operating facilities, because they have more than x% foreign ownership of their shares. 

It seems like there's a bit of tinkering with the wording of the rules to come and will take a while. I believe 300 businesses wrote to the government protesting the law. 

Going back to what crash monitor said

5 hours ago, crashmonitor said:

Just looked at some stats. NZ has 7%  of the population of the UK, the land mass is greater, the per capita GDP is slightly smaller than the UK (96%) and the build quality of houses would by and large fail UK standards...kit built comes to mind.

NZ houses are significantly higher priced than the UK at 446k US dollars on average ( one million US dollars in Auckland). ( November 2017)

We've got a problem, they have too by the look of things.

I would say it feels like the housing here is actually more overpriced than back home. Having said which, they average floor area is much larger, but the build qaulity is incredibly low. Even the apartment buildings they put up have a lot of leaks, and the houses are as commented, timber frames, weather board and a roof.

I went on a road trip a few weeks ago along the East Coast - logging country. its mind blowingly empty. Looking at the houses in some of these poor villages, they looked little better than a developing country. Can't imagine how cold and damp they get in winter

[Mancunian284]

6 minutes ago, Foreverblowingbubbles said:

I went on a road trip a few weeks ago along the East Coast - logging country. its mind blowingly empty. Looking at the houses in some of these poor villages, they looked little better than a developing country. Can't imagine how cold and damp they get in winter

I was quite shocked at the state of houses in a lot of the villages when we went travelling around.  They look like self built shacks - not what you would expect in a developed country.  The main roads between cities or the ones that tourists are likely to travel on are ok but stray away from these and the roads are terrible.

Beuatiful country if you like the outdoors though, really enjoyed hiking, sailing and kayaking whilst I was there.

[Democorruptcy]

9 hours ago, TonyJ said:

I've looked very deeply into many places from Spain to Belize, South Africa to Mexico, the Bahamas to Italy, France to Jamaica, and so far there is always a big obvious negative, or a hidden catch that is not in the brochures. If you are low to middling wealthy, but not a pensioner, the barriers to moving overseas are pretty massive. It would actually be much easier for a younger person with no funds, but a transportable skill to start a new life if they can earn money from that location, and if they would be allowed to stay beyond a holiday.

Costa Rica?

You only need to deposit $60k per 2 years spend as an Annuitant http://www.costaricanembassy.co.uk/visas-residencias-permisos/

You mention you wanted a garden in another post, I'm not saying this is the best value property over there but it's a bit different.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-property/property-70638629.html

I thought CR came across as an interesting place in this 3 part program http://www.channel4.com/programmes/escape-to-costa-rica/on-demand/64338-001

[Foreverblowingbubbles]

43 minutes ago, TonyJ said:

NZ$3million is probably too much for me and most people on this forum. It would use up a little under 3/4 of my funds, which is outside the comfort zone, and has its own risks attached. I am 47 years old, and 20 years away from retirement age.

I'd get caught by the Spanish and Portuguese wealth taxes, which would give me an effective tax rate on my income of about 100% this year. Plus, since I want to build a house, the language barriers make that very difficult. Also, as was discussed just now on another thread, the only really feasible countries to avoid violence and corruption are first world English speaking countries or northern European countries (which tend to be cold and grey in winter, and are not very attractive for the Brits).

One of main drawbacks of building in NZ would in fact be the earthquakes. I like solid buildings, but as the collapse of Christchurch Cathedral showed, they are not very good in an earthquake. Investing money in good quality only for it to be destroyed by the quality doesn't seem terribly good sense. However, the planning laws are far far easier in NZ (and any other country), and building land is probably far far cheaper in NZ (and most other countries) than the UK, where it is virtually impossible to build, unlike virtually every other country on the planet.

Here's how you do it:

- spend $3million on a building that you can operate as your business premesis, and also your home. Buy with a 50% loan secured against it. 

- you need about £750k cash in that case. 

- you have 15-20 years to pay off the rest of the loan, although you have the cash available to do so at any time. 

- here's an example of what much less money can get Http://www.trademe.co.nz/property/residential-property-for-sale/auction-1330372736.htm. 

I actually spoke to the owners of that place, they did exactly this visa route. Brits, retirement age now. Osteopath (him) and another business run from home (her), can't remeber exactly. Ran it for 10 or 15 years before retiring.

Admittedly they bought for a lot less than $3m, but they bought the fixed asset, the location and home as part of the investment they made, and (probably, I didnt ask) used leverage to get above the investment nominal amount

 

[Democorruptcy]

15 minutes ago, TonyJ said:

Costa Rica is a beautiful country and everyone loves it for holidays. And apparently it is great if you have earnings from abroad or an internet business. But, it is also a mecca for fraudsters and swindlers from the US, who prey on expats because those crimes are not investigated by the police. If you go out at night, you are also likely to be mugged at some point, plus regular harassment by the police for money is the norm for expats driving cars. The building quality is generally basic and poor by western standards, and import duties are very high.

That 12 acre eco farm was over on the Nicoya peninsula, a long way from potential muggings in downtown San Jose. A neighbour was mugged in daylight in our street where I used to live in Yorkshire!