Barring Someone

[Guest]

I have only had to put one person on ignore because of the uncalled for abuse and just hounding me constantly. but it seems like they can still see my posts, is this right?... This idiot hates my posts and yet will not put me on ignore as well it seems

[Option5]

8 minutes ago, wotsthat said:

I have only had to put one person on ignore because of the uncalled for abuse and just hounding me constantly. but it seems like they can still see my posts, is this right?... This idiot hates my posts and yet will not put me on ignore as well it seems

Hi, I've already posted that I don't really mind  V's comments (although I do wish they were shorter) but he/she seems to have a specific grudge against HPI which I'm sure we all agree with to some extent.

The problem is if you ignore or block opinions you end up filtering out everyone who disagrees with you and we have mumsnet2. I just put it down as "heated debate" and afterwards we all go down the pub and have a laugh. 

It isn't compulsory to read V's posts, I've had my fair share of comments from V and just respond with polite (if sometimes mickey taking) posts.

We need people like V, who, if nothing else, show us that there are people out there who have probably suffered more than we have from HPI.

My two pen'north. Feel free to abuse me

[Venger]

9 hours ago, Option5 said:

Hi, I've already posted that I don't really mind  V's comments (although I do wish they were shorter) but he/she seems to have a specific grudge against HPI which I'm sure we all agree with to some extent.

The problem is if you ignore or block opinions you end up filtering out everyone who disagrees with you and we have mumsnet2. I just put it down as "heated debate" and afterwards we all go down the pub and have a laugh. 

It isn't compulsory to read V's posts, I've had my fair share of comments from V and just respond with polite (if sometimes mickey taking) posts.

We need people like V, who, if nothing else, show us that there are people out there who have probably suffered more than we have from HPI.

My two pen'north. Feel free to abuse me

 

Option5.... why have you been so quick to jump the conclusion the OP, the new member of just 7 weeks is referring to me. (although I am likely to be up there in his not-liked people, which is okay with me... join the queue.)

Option 5.  You're only a new member of 5 weeks yourself.   Nothing wrong with that, but please ease into the forum, and be careful of making such judgments so quickly.  

 Even the OP avoided naming.   You've jumped right in !!  Or at least strongly associating it to me; .. "V".

5 Weeks....

I'm letting you off lightly here... for you have rushed to name me.   And you've got it wrong.    

Don't you think you may be missing out on a few things in your rush to judgment about me.  Have close bonds with quite a few HPCers.  Then many other HPCers that have my full respect and we tip in on side of each other regularly.  

I would rather have a few longer posts than many many many short posts that are entirely misleading/wrong, about "the homeowning innocents / the brainwashed owners... the primary focus having to be on owners...  sympathy/suffering HPC."

Other people exist.  HPC is not horror/death.  BOMAD pouring money in.   So few households even have a mortgage.  

We can't have a housing market where there is no downside to paying too much, and where those who outbid all others at crazy prices are held up to be the innocents. So many years of people like you tipping up claiming that we should be all about the owners and sympathy... only for house prices to rise and rise and rise again.  Many still expecting more HPI+++.   Become an adult.

Quote

Neverwhere:

It's more like saying you feel sorry for someone who has taken risky financial decisions and bid up the price of housing and is currently enjoying that position and might - but will not necessarily - suffer for it in the future, whilst totally failing to mention all of the people who their actions have helped to price out and who are actually suffering as a result now.

The two are intrinsically interlinked.

More people are already suffering, because of the current dislocation between house prices and wages, than will possibly suffer in a HPC.

People who own their homes outright won't suffer.

People who have borrowed sensibly in relation to their household incomes and savings buffers won't suffer.

The only people who might possibly suffer are those who have acted speculatively, whether by holding multiple properties or by borrowing unsustainably for their main residences in order to maximise their stake in the housing market.

This relatively small cohort who might possibly suffer are also the ones who are most likely to have been driving the bubble and causing the suffering of those who are, as a result, priced out and unable to own homes of their own without borrowing in a similarly reckless manner.

In so doing this relatively small cohort who might possibly suffer have ultimately caused this possibility themselves. Not only in choosing their own personal exposure to the housing market, but also in the aggregate effect of their actions on house prices. 

This relatively small cohort who might possibly suffer are also, currently, not suffering.

In fact they are enjoying the fruits of their speculation as we speak, and many of them have been doing so for quite some time now, and may well continue to do so even in the event of a HPC, if they play their cards right.

Rush to judgement... including many very close friendships I have with other HPCers, and that includes two who have bought houses in recent years.

And I don't need any superior understanding, and the suggestion that just keep it polite/mickey with the 'Venger' (the one who tries to explain complex concepts that I would rather not read and hold to 'Homeowner-Innocence'). 

wotsthat is so new to forum, and I can't recall directly clashing with him on anything (yet).

There may have been some gentle probing involving another HPCer.   If it's who I suspect it is, then he is one of the forum's best minds.

"Welcome to the party pal !!"  

Sometimes there is a bit of testing/tease to see response of new posters, and how they react.  Especially if their initial postings seem HPI+/doubtful/Trollish.  To see how they react and if they can offer an explanation to their position.  It's a matter of not being sensitive and thin-skinned.  If you react badly/outrage/sensitively/take it so personally... that's a failure in oneself.... and sometimes trolls are outed that way too.   

There may have been a bit of that involving checking/testing from very good HPCer (only glanced at it), and then there was also just a bit of firm positioning to keep another thread on-topic, with a bit of oversensitive reaction, which seems also to have also resulted in this cringey thread.

And you're way out if you believe we don't get wind-up merchants, HPI VI, BTLers, and many others (including regular "Homeowner Innocence" Human-Shielders..... biggest heart of all time makes me the best person... because only owners matter, and renters not even worth a mention.... their superior wisdom means they should be priced out forever vs "The Innocence"... and protect £Trillions in HPI.)  

You're just the latest in a very long line of heroes tipping up about Homeowners Being Brainwashed/Sympathy/Suffering, and thinking yourself the best person for being so concerned about the homeowners (although that doesn't make you a troll or anything), on standby for any HPC that might occur.   With renters not getting a mention (those your owners outbid), until I explained we also exist, and can't do anything about those outbidding us.  It's a market.  Adult up.  

Meanwhile in Somalia... in Texas... with millions of good and needy causes in the UK and around the world.....  really... UK Homeowners ranking so much in need of sympathy/suffering (pre any HPC, with prices here at new peaks... having risen £150K+ for a semi since 2007, as the main-cause of protection?)  Can't you find another real cause?  They took their positions, often bragged about their buying positions as the smart thing, and millions of owners equity rich/outright owners/Bomad, and so many wouldn't help you out if you needed it.   At these price levels owners/buyers are on their own.

Quote

Again we return to Troll Hunting 101. The suggestion that I call everyone a troll is hyperbole. A poster coming with clean hands might object to themselves being called a troll, but the suggestion that I call everyone a troll speaks to a perception of the board that doesn't stack up, unless the poster's attention is drawn to a certain type of post and finds that I am also drawn to those posts, and respond using the t-word.
 
Let's get down to brass tacks. When investors with an exposure to property, particularly witless leveraged investors, get nervous because of the straws in the wind, these boards are very, very heavily trolled.
 
At these times it becomes necessary at times to assess the situation as best you can then shoot first and ask questions later. This makes it a very rough place, at those times, to make your way from newbie to a member of the community who gets the benefit of the doubt from most posters, most of the time. None of this is my doing. This is how things are.
 
There are no children here, and it is a war. There are going to be friendly-fire incidents.  If you've been wronged and you come with clean hands, man up.  Welcome to arguing on the internet about UK property.

If you'd been led to believe it was kisses and cuddles and then baked beans for tea, you've been misled. You shouldn't care what I think. I am just some keyboard warror hpc tw@t, driven by spite and jealousy - a real pea-brained numbskull anarchist.

 

Edited September 2, 2017 by Venger

[Guest]

On 01/09/2017 at 7:04 PM, Option5 said:

Hi, I've already posted that I don't really mind  V's comments (although I do wish they were shorter) but he/she seems to have a specific grudge against HPI which I'm sure we all agree with to some extent.

The problem is if you ignore or block opinions you end up filtering out everyone who disagrees with you and we have mumsnet2. I just put it down as "heated debate" and afterwards we all go down the pub and have a laugh. 

It isn't compulsory to read V's posts, I've had my fair share of comments from V and just respond with polite (if sometimes mickey taking) posts.

We need people like V, who, if nothing else, show us that there are people out there who have probably suffered more than we have from HPI.

My two pen'north. Feel free to abuse me

I am not talking about V, and who it is does not matter, I am playing school boy antics where I want other people not to like that other person as well, I just want to articulate my thoughts, which some like I might add with this one person slinging abuse and suggesting his posts are important and mone not.

 

If I totally disagree withsome on HPC I will never start the reply by being abusive, prefer to agree to disagree. HPC in many ways is great for me, sadly a handful of idiots are ruing it for me.

Edited September 2, 2017 by Guest

[Bruce Banner]

Polite trolling is still trolling. 

In fact, effective VI trolls are always polite, they don't want to get banned, they have a message to plug and money is at stake.

 

[Option5]

11 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Polite trolling is still trolling. 

In fact, effective VI trolls are always polite, they don't want to get banned, they have a message to plug and money is at stake.

 

Some people think being polite is important, I'm one of them, am I an effective troll?

[Bruce Banner]

5 minutes ago, Option5 said:

Some people think being polite is important, I'm one of them, am I an effective troll?

Based solely on that reply........ no comment .

[Rave]

So if I'm reading this right, you want to post stuff on the internet and block people who disagree with you from seeing it?

Twitter's that way, mate.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Rave said:

So if I'm reading this right, you want to post stuff on the internet and block people who disagree with you from seeing it?

Twitter's that way, mate.

No??????????????/

[Rave]

There are people here who I dislike and/or profoundly disagree with. If I'm not in the mood for an argument I simply skip their posts.

I don't include Venger on that (short) list FWIW; I skip his posts because they're always incredibly long and confusing.

[Venger]

1 hour ago, Rave said:

There are people here who I dislike and/or profoundly disagree with. If I'm not in the mood for an argument I simply skip their posts.

I don't include Venger on that (short) list FWIW; I skip his posts because they're always incredibly long and confusing.

Other people I respect on HPC forum tell me my posts are perfectly clear, and respect me for holding the position I do.

Including accountants.  Some very big minds.

An alternative perspective to your view is that perhaps you just don't have the intelligence to understand some higher-level concepts about the housing market.

I push back against ridiculous positions from Housing VI, such as those wanting HPC and better housing affordability = ruin on millions of people / wishing people to lose everything.   That's important to do.  Too few willing to put the effort in, and would rather lap up some trolling/HPI VI of others without any pushback.

You clearly lack understanding about somethings, including by tipping openly onto me in this thread.  

Very poor form.

Remind me @Rave what do you offer to the forum that is so great?

14 hours ago, darkmarket said:

Likewise I mostly read your comments without reply, but I've learned a lot from the integrity of your positions. It shows no respect for the individuals that make up this market to suggest they have no sense of agency. There's no coercion here, only decisions taken by adults. Some work out well, others less so, but there could be no asset bubble without individuals choosing to hold it up.

 

13 hours ago, Si1 said:

+1

I like venger's posts too.

(Thanks Si1).

 

[Venger]

11 hours ago, wotsthat said:

I am talking about V, and who it is does not matter, I am playing school boy antics where I want other people not to like that other person as well, I just want to articulate my thoughts, which some like I might add with this one person slinging abuse and suggesting his posts are important and mone not.

If I totally disagree withsome on HPC I will never start the reply by being abusive, prefer to agree to disagree. HPC in many ways is great for me, sadly a handful of idiots are ruing it for me.

 

You don't mean me though do you. 

If you've gone to all this trouble about me, when I don't recall clashing with you (yet) I would be very surprised.

I'm probably up there, but you've not started this thread about me.

Just more confusion from your posting.

Already one Newbie jumped to conclusion you mean me, and it has caused another HPCer to get the confidence to have a go at my posting, again referring to me directly.   That's okay because their own posts show their limited minds.

I think I know who you are referring to, for they teased you lightly on your possible posting motivations, and then questioned your position on another thread.

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, Venger said:

 

You don't mean me though do you. 

If you've gone to all this trouble about me, when I don't recall clashing with you (yet) I would be very surprised.

I'm probably up there, but you've not started this thread about me.

Just more confusion from your posting.

Already one Newbie jumped to conclusion you mean me, and it has caused another HPCer to get the confidence to have a go at my posting, again referring to me directly.   That's okay because their own posts show their limited minds.

I think I know who you are referring to, for they teased you lightly on your possible posting motivations, and then questioned your position on another thread.

My apologys, I meant I did NOT mean you, am correcting it now

[Venger]

1 minute ago, wotsthat said:

My apologys, I meant I did NOT mean you, am correcting it now

 

Thank you.

[Option5]

8 minutes ago, wotsthat said:

59 minutes ago, Venger said:

Already one Newbie jumped to conclusion you mean me,

 

That would be me, and I've already apologised for my error

 

[Rave]

1 minute ago, Venger said:

Other people I respect on HPC forum tell me my posts are perfectly clear, and respect me for holding the position I do.

Including accountants.  Some very big minds.

An alternative perspective to your view is that perhaps you just don't have the intelligence to understand some higher-level concepts about the housing market.

I push back against ridiculous positions from Housing VI, such as those wanting HPC and better housing affordability = ruin on millions of people / wishing people to lose everything.   That's important to do.  Too few willing to put the effort in, and would rather lap up some trolling/HPI VI of others without any pushback.

You clearly lack understanding about somethings, including by tipping openly onto me in this thread.  

Very poor form.

Remind me @Rave what do you offer to the forum that is so great?

 

I don't claim to be the sharpest tool in the box, and I freely admit that I don't contribute a great deal to the forum; at least not to the main one.

I'm not sure, therefore, why you seem to have taken such grave offence at some mild criticism of your posting style from an intellectual minnow  .

[Venger]

3 minutes ago, Rave said:

I don't claim to be the sharpest tool in the box, and I freely admit that I don't contribute a great deal to the forum; at least not to the main one.

I'm not sure, therefore, why you seem to have taken such grave offence at some mild criticism of your posting style from an intellectual minnow  . .

 

No upset feelings here on my side.

As it happens I know I have gained insight from quite a few of your posts, over the years.  Only had to read your forum-name (Rave) to have positive feeling.  

Although that is not going to be quite the same given your positioning against me... when there was no need for it, when you named me and joined in with others, thinking the Thread Starter was referring to me.  

You decided to make it openly very clear that you do not feel the same way about my postings (naming me) on HPC, and did so in quite a negative way (always skip / incredibly long and confusing.) 

2 hours ago, Rave said:

There are people here who I dislike and/or profoundly disagree with. If I'm not in the mood for an argument I simply skip their posts.

I don't include Venger on that (short) list FWIW; I skip his posts because they're always incredibly long and confusing.

Absolutely fair that I should push back.  

Happened to have some evidence to show that there are HPCers see me as a positive on the forum.  Why shouldn't I suggest that it's your own failing not to be able to get good things out of my contributions on HPC. 

Not everything is one sentence simple.  If it were the position would be, "Blessed are the innocent brainwashed homeowners & Long Live HPI++++ Protection" given so many anti-HPCers we get on forum and their 'protect the innocent homeowners who never know what they are doing.'  /  'HPC = suffering'

I value many HPC contributors.  I read and read.   Or have done... taking time away soon for more work.

While I am away, could you be the one to try and pick up some of the pushback against strong HPI+ VI and positions which are deliberately cast those wanting HPC as 'envious / wishing harm / vs their heroic quest to protect the innocent homeowner.   If you can do that in compact way, please do.   Show me how.

Let's review.   A thread began (and I have tried to remain neutral there) but where some jumping to conclusions the Thread-Starter was referring to me. 

Not helped by some further confusion by the Thread-Starter earlier today.  (Since made clear that not referring to me - thank you - although I also think he's being sensitive and should post more and interact more, before going for Ignore option.... for seems to me he is referring to one of the biggest minds on HPC, and already witnessed how things can easily get confused).

Rave; simply point out that if you're going to join into a thread putting out some very direct criticism my way (how you always skip my posts / confusing), then one can ask what is so great about yourself.

...joining in with perception the Thread Starter was referring to me... naming me, and getting bit of dig in yourself... it's a bit unfair.

In all of the circumstances, one can rightly pose this question....

1 hour ago, Venger said:

You clearly lack understanding about somethings, including by tipping openly onto me in this thread.  

Very poor form.

Remind me @Rave what do you offer to the forum that is so great?

 

(Thanks Si1).

[Rave]

Fair enough, I shouldn't have been so rude, and for that I apologize. I certainly wasn't piling on to you though, irrespective of whether you were the target or not. I clearly said that you were not included in my list of posters whose posts I ignore on the grounds of disliking the poster and/or their opinions- and that instead my reason for skipping your posts is that they're simply too long and hard to follow. Perhaps I could have worded it more clearly; it was intended as a flippant comment in any case.

That is likely to remain my position, though. I don't actually know what your argument on anything is because in the past I've expended considerable time and mental effort trying to follow it, without appreciable success. Now I don't even start trying.

I certainly don't expect you to amend your posting style on my account, of course. You can post as you please, and I can continue to skip them if I can't follow them. As I say I am happy to admit that I am far from the most intelligent or insightful poster on this forum, I have learned far more from here than I have contributed myself.

However, in the real world outside the rarefied atmosphere of this forum, I am clearly well above the average level of intelligence of the populace as a whole. I think it's fair to say that you might have more success getting your ideas across if your posts were shorter, and you refrained from quoting posts from other threads and/or previous years...

[Venger]

1 hour ago, Rave said:

Fair enough, I shouldn't have been so rude, and for that I apologize. I certainly wasn't piling on to you though, irrespective of whether you were the target or not. I clearly said that you were not included in my list of posters whose posts I ignore on the grounds of disliking the poster and/or their opinions- and that instead my reason for skipping your posts is that they're simply too long and hard to follow. Perhaps I could have worded it more clearly; it was intended as a flippant comment in any case.

That is likely to remain my position, though. I don't actually know what your argument on anything is because in the past I've expended considerable time and mental effort trying to follow it, without appreciable success. Now I don't even start trying.

I certainly don't expect you to amend your posting style on my account, of course. You can post as you please, and I can continue to skip them if I can't follow them. As I say I am happy to admit that I am far from the most intelligent or insightful poster on this forum, I have learned far more from here than I have contributed myself.

However, in the real world outside the rarefied atmosphere of this forum, I am clearly well above the average level of intelligence of the populace as a whole. I think it's fair to say that you might have more success getting your ideas across if your posts were shorter, and you refrained from quoting posts from other threads and/or previous years...

 

Thank you for admitting your unnecessarily rude behaviour in naming and openly criticising me on this thread (where I was not even the person being referred to by the Thread Starter!!!)

Quote

 

'I don't know,' Wubslin said, scratching his head and looking at Horza as
though he was some sort of exhibit.

-Consider Phlebas

 

 

And thank you for doubling down in the post above, with your  advanced lessons in "how-to-post" - after I already offered up some convincing evidence that other HPCers fully understand my deeper positioning, and often in some challenging circumstances, against those who are very protective of HPI / BTLers who deliberate attempt to deny honest objectivity for their own vested-interests.   

It's been a rough day about that on the main-forum.  However I was pleased that quite a few HPCers were able to understand the deeper issues involved, where I and a few others were part of the push-back.

I shall most assuredly ensure that I take and follow your entirely unsolicited 'wisdom' on how to post (*trying to look and sound sufficiently bogus in my abjection.*)  with you having already made error in thinking this thread was about me in the first place, and launching in on me.

The rarefied atmosphere of this forum....? Maybe that's part of the problem with your reading on HPC?

HPC forum.... with many priced out renters, and other people genuinely concerned about housing financialisation.

This is the place were some of us on very wrong side of market (deep in the s*** of it) and suffering all the hardships that go with it

What are you?  On top of the Layer Cake?  

 

I wish you success as well, in coming down from the superior positioning.

It does not harm my feelings that you continue to insist my posting style is not likely to be worth reading by you.  

I am not going to adjust to satisfy you.   Already know that other HPCers can fully understand the deeper messages and meanings in my post. 

You have already admitted to being rude (after I explained why I was pushing back), and it's clear you misunderstood context of discussion on this very simple thread.  Just launched into it about me as being the big-bad.   Thanks for the advice but you can't even wrap your head around this thread, which was nothing to do with me by the thread-starter.

Quote

 

I encourage you in the strongest possible terms to engage in discussion before you decide to bestow upon yourself the right to pass judgement on others for the manner in which they engage in discussion.

As I have already pointed out, in my opinion, you have misunderstood the discussion on this thread.

Now that you have engaged with it, however problematically, that matter - that I disagree with you - is an established fact.

You think what you are posting is a fair reading of the thread and you think that what you are saying is constructive, but I both disagree and can offer a reasoned explanation of why I disagree.

There is a difference between sitting in the commentary box and getting in the ring and in my opinion it is almost always an error of judgement for inexperienced posters to enter the ring acting as if they were still in the commentary box.

HPC is broad church, and so is the mainstream. HPC has posters that think that house prices will crash and posters that think they won't. The mainstream media has property rampers and property Cassandras.

You've offered unsolicited advice to the people posting on this thread, so I'll offer some advice back to you.

If you wanted to jump in on any of the positions where there are those offering problematic positions, there is nothing to to stop you.

But you don't.   Others do. 

Hence my advice is that if you think that the forum needs more patient voices to engage in a more conciliatory manner with what you consider to be "main stream views", be that poster. If you can't be bothered, you haven't the right to tell those of us who do post how we should post.

 

 

[AdamoMucci]

/ignore whole sh*tty thread

[Guest]

5 hours ago, AdamoMucci said:

/ignore whole sh*tty thread

And yet you didn't

[Sledgehead]

On 9/1/2017 at 6:44 PM, wotsthat said:

I have only had to put one person on ignore because of the uncalled for abuse and just hounding me constantly. but it seems like they can still see my posts, is this right?

I speak as someone who has put others on 'ignore.'

When I 'ignore' someone here, that is my intention. I don't wish to know what they are thinking or doing. That is, after all,the nature of "ignoring".

Why would I be worried whether they can still read my posts?

Why are you worried about the person you are "ignoring" being able to read your posts?

I would respectfully suggest you are not trying to ignore them at all.

Which brings me to ...

 

On 9/1/2017 at 6:44 PM, wotsthat said:

 This idiot hates my posts and yet will not put me on ignore as well it seems

 

How do you know this, given you are supposedly ignoring them? My suspicion is you are still reading their posts, either by logging on w/o signing in, or through others quoting them.

Either way, you are not choosing to ignore them at all.

Indeed, it is clear you are concerned that they are able to see what you are writing - and you only know this (presumably) because they are still commenting on your posts, and you are choosing to read those comments.

The inevitable conclusion is not that you want them to ignore you, but that you want their (critical) posts about your posts struck out. Indeed, whilst you write about 'ignore', your title perhaps betrays your true intentions:

 

Quote

Barring Someone

 

And whilst the mods are clearly not averse to censoring views they feel might damage fubra's reputation, I can't see them wanting to take sides in the personal tiff you have with this other forum member by indulging in censorship - let alone 'barring' a member.

 

Edited September 3, 2017 by Sledgehead

[Riedquat]

Of course you can't block others from seeing your posts. This is an open forum - you can read it without being logged in, as can anyone. Anything you post on here is not private, any more than shouting at a crowd and expecting some people there you don't like to put earplugs in. The only issue I've got with ignore is that it still shows the posts are there (and you can see them anyway if they get quoted by someone else, but there''s probably no sensible way around that).

[jfk]

Yawn. Don't feed the trolls

[Bland Unsight]

On 02/09/2017 at 7:43 AM, wotsthat said:

I am not talking about V, and who it is does not matter, I am playing school boy antics where I want other people not to like that other person as well, I just want to articulate my thoughts, which some like I might add with this one person slinging abuse and suggesting his posts are important and mone not.

 

If I totally disagree withsome on HPC I will never start the reply by being abusive, prefer to agree to disagree. HPC in many ways is great for me, sadly a handful of idiots are ruing it for me.

Love the Freudian slip here (the only thing I have added to the post is emphasis).

I personally am really enjoying your posts, so please don't get frustrated by idiots calling you a troll. If you have a sincere position then stick to your guns. All will be well in the end, and, in the meantime, it's only arguing with anonymous strangers somewhere in the metaphorical bowels of the internet. Don't take matters too seriously.

We can all do our bit to make the forum a friendlier place. I am beginning to worry that one of the newer posters thinks that I am suspicious of their motives (which honestly couldn't be further from the truth) so I've changed my avatar to a friendly looking puppy.

Just do whatever you can to make the forum a civilised place and don't let other people drag you down to their level.