How many tower blocks will be condemned?

[winkie]

Just now, iamnumerate said:

Why should people who work in London have to move?  Why not make those who don't?  If you move a pro single parent from a council flat in London to an empty one in Middlesborough and rent it privately the council i.e the taxpayer gets £12k +p.a.

Who says they don't work....qualify work?.......why should London only get the 'so called' workers whatever that is and Middlesborough get the dross.....Middlesborough has enough problems of their own I would imagine without having to support any more.

[copydude]

11 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Wonder if that's a real concern that 600 may have been done like this, or just an estimate of the number of blocks that have been clad in recent years and considering what this has raised it's best to check them all.

According to 'Construction News', everyone in the industry is now checking their records very carefully.

Quote

 

This morning, Theresa May said that all social landlords have been instructed to “carry out additional fire safety checks on tower blocks and ensure the appropriate safety and response measures are in place”. But confusion over which towers are being tested for similar cladding didn’t help matters. The industry fallout continues though and everyone CN has spoken to in recent days is taking steps to ensure they’re protected.  One CEO of a subcontractor said: “We don’t have any projects that have used the ACM panels that I’m aware of, but we are checking. What’s clear is that everyone needs to have a proper look at what’s happened and what materials are being used.” What is also clear is that this has become a moral issue for the industry.  I wrote earlier this week about it being time for the industry to consider whether ‘meeting standards’ is enough.  Since then, we have been contacted by various people alleging construction jobs in their communities have been shoddily carried out. There is a clear theme among the complaints that contractors have cut corners. In the weeks to come there will be more stories of poor performance and the industry will need to work hard to improve the reputation of the builder as a result.

 

 

[iamnumerate]

2 minutes ago, winkie said:

Who says they don't work....qualify work?.......why should London only get the 'so called' workers whatever that is and Middlesborough get the dross.....Middlesborough has enough problems of their own I would imagine without having to support any more.

1) I have met loads and they don't work

2)Give Middlesborough the £12k pa per year I am sure the local council tax payers would like the money.

3) There is nothing so called about working and paying taxes, it is real money that goes to the Government.

4) Middlesborough was just an example - build a new town called chavsville if needed - it would still save money.

Edited June 22, 2017 by iamnumerate

[ThoughtCriminal]

This has nothing to do with rules, laws, fire regs. It is about paying the danegeld to the media.

 

The elephant in the room is immigration. Khan's pronouncement about an amnesty is another nail in the coffin for the rule of law.

[mat109]

3 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Why should people who work in London have to move?  Why not make those who don't?  If you move a pro single parent from a council flat in London to an empty one in Middlesborough and rent it privately the council i.e the taxpayer gets £12k +p.a.

As someone living in London feeling "locked out", I have to say I agree with this up to a point, there doesn't seem to be anything "fair" about the "special people" who get to live in prime central areas of London for nothing whilst doing nothing.

Quote

Who says they don't work....qualify work?.......why should London only get the 'so called' workers whatever that is and Middlesborough get the dross.....Middlesborough has enough problems of their own I would imagine without having to support any more.

But I agree with this more. Go to Paris and see how ghettoisation has worked out for them. We need mixed communities. Some might call the rich the dross you need to spread around

[copydude]

39 minutes ago, Ash4781 said:

How many have they checked so far and what is the 'found an issue' rate ?

Apparently most major councils in the UK have been busy.

But Northern councils do not appear to own so many blocks . . . I think one article stated that Liverpool doesn't own any . . . so it will take awhile to alert the private sector.

[winkie]

1 minute ago, iamnumerate said:

1) I have met loads and they don't work

2)Give Middlesborough the £12k I am sure the local council tax payers would like the money.

3) There is nothing so called about working and paying taxes.

 

Everyone pays taxes, just by living people pay taxes....if they smoke and drink they pay even more.....I would guess very many thousands are earning less than the personal tax allowance when income tax kicks in......would be great if every 40 hour job (if you can secure a regular one good for you) paid a London living wage, meaning London rent paying wage.

[iamnumerate]

1 minute ago, mat109 said:

As someone living in London feeling "locked out", I have to say I agree with this up to a point, there doesn't seem to be anything "fair" about the "special people" who get to live in prime central areas of London for nothing whilst doing nothing.

But I agree with this more. Go to Paris and see how ghettoisation has worked out for them. We need mixed communities. Some might call the rich the dross you need to spread around

Part of the problem in Paris is the people in the ghettos.  I like the idea about mixed communities as a white man on average wage can I have a house in Kings World estate in Chelsea - that is would make it a more mixed community

[winkie]

Just now, hotairmail said:

https://www.ft.com/content/8ecbb220-5715-11e7-9fed-c19e2700005f?mhq5j=e3

Multiple UK buildings have ‘combustible’ cladding says Theresa May

London’s Camden Council is removing panels from five blocks after government tests

 

 

 

Time to get a job in tower block cladding removal.

[iamnumerate]

Just now, winkie said:

Everyone pays taxes, just by living people pay taxes....if they smoke and drink they pay even more.....I would guess very many thousands are earning less than the personal tax allowance when income tax kicks in......would be great if every 40 hour job (if you can secure a regular one good for you) paid a London living wage, meaning London rent paying wage.

If someone gets £23k in benefits, pays £5k a year in rent for a central London tax, it is impossible for them to pay more in taxes than they receive from the Government.  Why should people who work in London have to travel long distances and pass people en route who don't work?

Or as happened to me once be told by someone on benefits "I wouldn't live in your area, it is not good enough for me".

[winkie]

1 minute ago, iamnumerate said:

If someone gets £23k in benefits, pays £5k a year in rent for a central London tax, it is impossible for them to pay more in taxes than they receive from the Government.  Why should people who work in London have to travel long distances and pass people en route who don't work?

Or as happened to me once be told by someone on benefits "I wouldn't live in your area, it is not good enough for me".

There will always be those that gain the system....always has, always will be, at the time they think they are clever......nothing good ever lasts forever, everything catches up eventually......you can't change it, just ride above it.

[iamnumerate]

Just now, hotairmail said:

 

I don't think you quite understand how the system works.

Rich people need low wage workers locally - to clean their homes, wash their cars, be carers, nurses, hospital cleaners, security men, concierges, gardeners, waiters, cooks.

But they don't want to pay for them. So we all end up paying for low value, low earners in expensive places. 

I don't think you understand my complaint.  I know people who don't work - at all - they just have babies and are paid to do so London.

Other than keeping the local teachers in a job they don't contribute to do so.

I am not talking about people who work.

[mat109]

1 minute ago, iamnumerate said:

Part of the problem in Paris is the people in the ghettos.  I like the idea about mixed communities as a white man on average wage can I have a house in Kings World estate in Chelsea - that is would make it a more mixed community

I agree - ignoring the (slightly queasy) implications of race in your post - but where do you think all those poor below average earning people would go? Into a poorer area? And the poorer people they displace? And so on, and so forth?

In a normally distributed world (not wages, I know) 50% of the world earns less than the average. 

The problem is that council housing is designed for a Britain without a housing crisis or rampant nimby-ism, for a less economically imbalanced country. Sort that out and everything is fine

[iamnumerate]

1 minute ago, winkie said:

..you can't change it, just ride above it.

A really depressing attitude, I am glad not everyone thinks like that, otherwise nothing would ever change.

[iamnumerate]

1 minute ago, mat109 said:

I agree - ignoring the (slightly queasy) implications of race in your post - but where do you think all those poor below average earning people would go? Into a poorer area? And the poorer people they displace? And so on, and so forth?

In a normally distributed world (not wages, I know) 50% of the world earns less than the average. 

The problem is that council housing is designed for a Britain without a housing crisis or rampant nimby-ism, for a less economically imbalanced country. Sort that out and everything is fine

I am not really talking about people on low wages, I am talking about people who don't work full stop.

BTW I don't really care about race, I would treat everyone who doesn't work the same.

I think although a lot of pro single mums would suddenly have a partner.

[iamnumerate]

PS if you stop paying people to live in London and there is 500K empty property that would prices drop like a stone.  I would be worried that by 25% LTV mortgage would go into negative equity but it would be worth it.

[winkie]

2 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

A really depressing attitude, I am glad not everyone thinks like that, otherwise nothing would ever change.

Rules are made, and they are broken.....targets are set and ways are created to achieve them but not in the way they were designed....

[copydude]

 

[mat109]

9 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

PS if you stop paying people to live in London and there is 500K empty property that would prices drop like a stone.  I would be worried that by 25% LTV mortgage would go into negative equity but it would be worth it.

That's different to traditional social housing though? As a renter, my own taxes are being used to bid up the cost of renting through the medium of housing benefit.

Yes, the land is still being used but I'm sure there was a time when you paid extra to rent privately vs. socially because it was nicer, less dense or were snooty, not because you had no other choice.

You could argue that large quantities of higher density social housing has a deflationary effect on an area.

[mat109]

Just now, mat109 said:

That's different to traditional social housing though? As a renter, my own taxes are being used to bid up the cost of renting through the medium of housing benefit.

Yes, the land is still being used but I'm sure there was a time when you paid extra to rent privately vs. socially because it was nicer, less dense or were snooty, not because you had no other choice.

You could argue that large quantities of higher density social housing has a deflationary effect on an area.

I guess - build masses of cheap council houses in mixed areas, put the benefit types in those houses, abolish housing benefit, job done.

London becomes ugly, of course.

[ThoughtCriminal]

Discussing race makes you queasy?

 

Well the rest of the world has no such problem so I suggest you grow a pair.

[BorrowToLeech]

13 minutes ago, mat109 said:

I guess - build masses of cheap council houses in mixed areas, put the benefit types in those houses, abolish housing benefit, job done.

London becomes ugly, of course.

The paradox of course is that London has some really shitty areas, that you wouldn't want to live in, and yet they're hugely expensive. 

For example, my middle class retired parents could not afford to live in lewisham, even if they sold their nice house in a leafy suburb. 

Cutting housing benefits might cause these places to gentrify, forcing all the poverty elsewhere, or it might just push the rents down in those places.

Either way, it's amazing to think that most people, even quite rich people, couldn't afford to live in the worst parts of the country.  Yet another bizarre oddity that we've become so accustomed to we don't even think about it.

(Nb: leafy suburb came out as lefty suburb.  I'm being satirised by my own phone, the *******.)

Edited June 22, 2017 by DrBuyToLeech

[mat109]

10 minutes ago, ThoughtCriminal said:

Discussing race makes you queasy?

 

Well the rest of the world has no such problem so I suggest you grow a pair.

Shhhh there. Not on topic. Council housing allocation in the UK is racially agonostic, so for the purpose of posting here on this topic, discussing it adds no colour (see what I did?)

[iamnumerate]

34 minutes ago, mat109 said:

That's different to traditional social housing though? As a renter, my own taxes are being used to bid up the cost of renting through the medium of housing benefit.

Yes, the land is still being used but I'm sure there was a time when you paid extra to rent privately vs. socially because it was nicer, less dense or were snooty, not because you had no other choice.

You could argue that large quantities of higher density social housing has a deflationary effect on an area.

I am complaining about people who don't work and get their housing paid for them.  If it is social housing it should go to more deserving tenants, if it is BTL either others should rent (for less of course as there would be less tenants) or the Landlords would have to sell.

I don't really care about which case it.  In London now days places with lots of social housing seem more expensive that those without.

[ThoughtCriminal]

Racially agnostic? ???

 

Let me get my popcorn.....