Bruce Banner

Conservative Party Manifesto

228 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, satch said:

So we have the usual 3 big lies. 1. Immigration in the tens of thousands, 2.Eliminate the deficit, 3. Build a million plus new homes .....

You can say that again

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4 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Triple lock is crazy, always was, pure inflation!

It's a business world. Triple lock worked when inflation was low. They entered an unpredictable phase, and it will cost them more, hence why it's being removed, they can't afford it. 

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7 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Triple lock is crazy, always was, pure inflation!

I agree.  However, I also hope that MSM view this measure as a negative and therefore help Jeremy.

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2 hours ago, maverick73 said:

It's a business world. Triple lock worked when inflation was low. They entered an unpredictable phase, and it will cost them more, hence why it's being removed, they can't afford it. 

I think it is more a case of they can take it away now and not lose votes (not possible before as the pensioners tend to vote and the triple lock was a cheapish voter winner). But now the pensioners only option it to vote for Steptoe and his marxist policies which ironically include the triple lock but May assumes they will all stomach the loss and still vote brexit/tory. Ironically Corbyn was always euro sceptic and May was a remainer ....

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15 hours ago, crashmonitor said:

You really have to believe in magic money trees to believe in Labour, somehow they can fund everything and retain largesse like that. Their priorities appear to be nurses using foodbanks (income £28,000pa) spreading propaganda about the NHS falling apart which is repeated parrot fashion by all their activists, even though many will have recently received excellent care under NHS. Plus more money for benefit lifers.

Meanwhile the majority of the population, who have to live on a a lot less than nurses, are put on permanent  wind up mode by Labour and their supporters whining for more money........

You missed out some tripe about going back to the 70s and Venezuela...

Osbourne knows all about the magic money tree. Luckily enough voters such as your good self confuse debt with deficit enough to allow him to get away with borrowing more in one term then Labour has in history... unchallenged.

Strong and Stable... Bare bones of their ar$es more like.

Oh and by the way, a qualified registered Nurse starts on a Band 5 £22,000 to £28,000. It takes many years to get to £28k. This of course after spending a couple of years pre qualification as a student, enjoying 12 hour shifts for the princely sum of knack all.

Edited by PopGun

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16 hours ago, mat109 said:

I'm actually considering Conservative because of this. I've never done it before.

What about fox hunting? Vile woman and party IMO. More zero hour contracts all round! Frack the north, line the pockets of billionaires and wreck the NHS. 

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3 hours ago, PopGun said:

You missed out some tripe about going back to the 70s and Venezuela...

Osbourne knows all about the magic money tree. Luckily enough voters such as your good self confuse debt with deficit enough to allow him to get away with borrowing more in one term then Labour has in history... unchallenged.

Strong and Stable... Bare bones of their ar$es more like.

Oh and by the way, a qualified registered Nurse starts on a Band 5 £22,000 to £28,000. It takes many years to get to £28k. This of course after spending a couple of years pre qualification as a student, enjoying 12 hour shifts for the princely sum of knack all.

The reason the public sector debt has risen was the course that was set before 2010, a tripling of household debt during Labour's tenure and the Government taking up the slack. Do you seriously believe things would have been any different under any other Government after Brown's cataclysmic tenure and crashing the economy. The facts are 2010-2017...fastest growing economy in the G7, highest employment rate etc. So far as not spending enough to get the economy going, they did get the economy going, the trajectory of debt was just unstoppable. You can't just make a handbrake turn and reverse debt trajectory and  undo all previous public sector promises based on an economy that was assumed to grow at about 4% forever.

I actually find your inference that I don't know the difference between deficit and debt very insulting btw.

Meanwhile at least the Manifesto reverses a lot of the ridiculous strait jacket promises on pensions and tax. Labour call increasing debt austerity and plan to start spending much more and presumably have a Greek style end game. Which indeed may be good for those that want a crashed economy to bomb out asset prices. I get that.

 

Edited by crashmonitor

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4 minutes ago, crashmonitor said:

The reason the debt has risen was the course that was set before 2010, a tripling of household debt during Labour's tenure and the Government taking up the slack. Do you seriously believe things would have been any different under any other Government after Brown's cataclysmic tenure and crashing the economy. The facts are 2010-2017...fastest growing economy in the G7, highest employment rate etc. So far as not spending enough to get the economy going, they did get the economy going, the trajectory of debt was just unstoppable. You can't just make a handbrake turn and reverse debt trajectory and certainly undo all previous promises.

I actually find your inference that I don't know the difference between deficit and debt very insulting.

To an extent the UK's debt trajectory was inevitable after 2010 and that remains the case today, which is why the Tories have given themselves until 2026 to balance the budget. It's Osborne's spending priorities that were all wrong. Needlessly subjecting savers and public sector employees to financial repression in the name of austerity while simultaneously squandering hundreds of billions on a second housing bubble and vanity projects like HS2. By helping to re-leverage the private sector he's exposed the UK to all sorts of long-run risks and uncertainties, when Keynesian counter-cyclical measures are intended to accomplish the very opposite, and pushed back the prospect of a sustainable recovery indefinitely i.e. '2026'.

 

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7 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

To an extent the UK's debt trajectory was inevitable after 2010 and that remains the case today, which is why the Tories have given themselves until 2026 to balance the budget. It's Osborne's spending priorities that were all wrong. Needlessly subjecting savers and public sector employees to financial repression in the name of austerity while simultaneously squandering hundreds of billions on a second housing bubble and vanity projects like HS2. By helping to re-leverage the private sector he's exposed the UK to all sorts of long-run risks and uncertainties, when Keynesian counter-cyclical measures are intended to accomplish the very opposite, and pushed back the prospect of a sustainable recovery indefinitely i.e. '2026'.

 

Well I agree with pretty much all that zug. And glad to see somebody actually understands trajectory and debt momentum. and yes the Tories have had their own waste and vanity projects. And indeed the burden has not always been fairly shared.

Edited by crashmonitor

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17 hours ago, aerobubbles said:

DM crowd are going in very hard on the social care policy, as expected. The next lot of polls will be interesting. There's very little in there for a lot of people. I think she'll have dropped a fair few points.

I think the gamble is "who the hell else are they going to vote for?" (that matters)

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19 minutes ago, tomandlu said:

I think the gamble is "who the hell else are they going to vote for?" (that matters)

Lib, Lab, Green or Tory are the choices in my location.

My vote. None of the above.

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21 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better.

That should be Labour's slogan.

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9 hours ago, crashmonitor said:

The reason the public sector debt has risen was the course that was set before 2010, a tripling of household debt during Labour's tenure and the Government taking up the slack. Do you seriously believe things would have been any different under any other Government after Brown's cataclysmic tenure and crashing the economy. The facts are 2010-2017...fastest growing economy in the G7, highest employment rate etc. So far as not spending enough to get the economy going, they did get the economy going, the trajectory of debt was just unstoppable. You can't just make a handbrake turn and reverse debt trajectory and  undo all previous public sector promises based on an economy that was assumed to grow at about 4% forever.

I actually find your inference that I don't know the difference between deficit and debt very insulting btw.

Meanwhile at least the Manifesto reverses a lot of the ridiculous strait jacket promises on pensions and tax. Labour call increasing debt austerity and plan to start spending much more and presumably have a Greek style end game. Which indeed may be good for those that want a crashed economy to bomb out asset prices. I get that.

 

We have established many times on this forum that it was private debt that fubar'd the economy. 

Also Tell me the bit about Osbourne borrowing more in one term than Labour combined again....Hence my debt/deficit reference. I know you know the difference which if anything made your comment worse.

Face it, you're clouded by partisan politics.

Yes there's trajectories, but there's also cycles.. There's good reasons why Blair and Cameron got out when they did.

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On 2017-5-18 at 4:40 PM, nome said:

Manifesto bit on housing......


We will build better houses, to match the quality of those we have inherited from previous generations. That means supporting high-quality, high-density housing like mansion blocks, mews houses and terraced streets. 

This bit had my blood boiling - but not literally :)

1. "Match" isn't good enough - why not EXCEED? <_<

2. No it doesn't mean high-density housing. The density of new housing now is FAR TOO HIGH already. I can reach out and touch my neighbour's wall. None of the houses in my street can EVER build a side extension. Look at that picture someone posted the other day of a corner plot house where the corner is practically in the road. <_<

I wish I could remember where this came from, but I saved this at the time and makes the point better than I could:

Quote

With a true free market, homes would be getting larger, better and cheaper in relative terms, in response to the demands of the consumer. This is not happening. New properties are about half the size they were in the 1930s and they have become so expensive that millions are now being delayed or excluded from homeownership.
 
The housing market is virtually the only sector where this is happening. Imagine if we, in the UK, were driving cars that were worse than they were in the 1930s.
-----
What should happen is that the builders should be competing with each other to offer the best and highest-spec houses for the lowest prices to get more sales - just as the car manufacturers are competing with each other to offer the best and highest-spec cars, to sell as many as possible.

 

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On 18/05/2017 at 5:23 PM, aerobubbles said:

DM crowd are going in very hard on the social care policy, as expected. The next lot of polls will be interesting. There's very little in there for a lot of people. I think she'll have dropped a fair few points.

 The gap is down to 14% in some polls and that is before the Tory Crypto Socialist Manifesto **** up.

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8 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

 The gap is down to 14% in some polls and that is before the Tory Crypto Socialist Manifesto **** up.

It will be too funny if she does a Clinton and falls off her broomstick at the last fence.

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35 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

It will be too funny if she does a Clinton and falls off her broomstick at the last fence.

Well May is doing her best to grab defeat from the jaws of victory, with means tested winter fuel payment, no triple lock, the after-death house clawback on the kids inheritance, fox hunting, no costings in the manifesto and no solid statement about immigration numbers, tax breaks for companies and the rich with zero hours for the poor and the standard lies about the deficit and building houses.

She seems to assume the old folk and people who own houses have no choice but to accept the nasty side of the Tories or else they will get Corbyn the Marxist.

Edited by satch

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1 hour ago, satch said:

Well May is doing her best to grab defeat from the jaws of victory, with means tested winter fuel payment, no triple lock, the after-death house clawback on the kids inheritance, fox hunting, no costings in the manifesto and no solid statement about immigration numbers, tax breaks for companies and the rich with zero hours for the poor and the standard lies about the deficit and building houses.

She seems to assume the old folk and people who own houses have no choice but to accept the nasty side of the Tories or else they will get Corbyn the Marxist.

I'll happily admit there are plenty of reasons for not wanting to vote Labour (even though I probably will) but if Mrs May keeps adding to the stock of reasons to not vote Tory we might still get the greatest upset ever.

"If I lose just SIX seats Corbyn will WIN!"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4523948/THERESA-scary-thought-Labour-winning.html

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Maybe it's a conspiracy theory, she is trying to lose on perpose.. she is a remainer..😂

 

Corybin in want more asylum seekers, and lib dems.. Corybin said 'we need to take our fair share' Germany took 1 million costing 22 billion euros in the first year.. how many is our fair share? 100'000, 200'000, 500,000? 

I don't think we could survive 5 years of left wing luv...  the country would be finished.. 

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2 hours ago, satch said:

Well May is doing her best to grab defeat from the jaws of victory, with means tested winter fuel payment, no triple lock, the after-death house clawback on the kids inheritance, fox hunting, no costings in the manifesto and no solid statement about immigration numbers, tax breaks for companies and the rich with zero hours for the poor and the standard lies about the deficit and building houses.

She seems to assume the old folk and people who own houses have no choice but to accept the nasty side of the Tories or else they will get Corbyn the Marxist.

Much of that is hyperbole. "No triple lock" - but a double lock. So pensions will rise in line with inflation and earnings which is fair, many people in work would love to have such a gold-plated guarantee every year. To keep the triple lock would be insane and utterly unaffordable.

Costings in the manifesto would be a bad thing. Listen to Ken Clarke's interview from earlier today. It's madness to constrain a future government leaving it unable to react to events. Having everything "costed" is a recent fad which is actually harmful, and it wasn't just Ken Clarke saying it either.

 

Edited by mrtickle

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10 hours ago, satch said:

Well May is doing her best to grab defeat from the jaws of victory, <snip>

She seems to assume the old folk and people who own houses have no choice but to accept the nasty side of the Tories or else they will get Corbyn the Marxist.

Well rather weirdly, the Labour Manifesto isn't as crazy as most people expected and actually has some popular policies in it.

The Lib Dems also seem to have the most economically right wing document, at least in terms of tax. We know what the Lib Dem Tax policy is, as we do Labour, it's the Conservative manifesto that leave the door open to raising National Insurance  and perhaps VAT to 25%

Edited by Mikhail Liebenstein

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22 hours ago, tomandlu said:

I think the gamble is "who the hell else are they going to vote for?" (that matters)

You're right. I think it's more the purpose of this election was to try to grab a large majority. If she's spectacularly backfired with this, I don't think Labour scrapes in. But there's the risk she'll end up with a similar majority again, and based on what was expected to happen that will be a huge failure.

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11 hours ago, satch said:

Well May is doing her best to grab defeat from the jaws of victory, with means tested winter fuel payment, no triple lock, the after-death house clawback on the kids inheritance, fox hunting, no costings in the manifesto and no solid statement about immigration numbers, tax breaks for companies and the rich with zero hours for the poor and the standard lies about the deficit and building houses.

She seems to assume the old folk and people who own houses have no choice but to accept the nasty side of the Tories or else they will get Corbyn the Marxist.

I'd like to see another coalition with Corbyn as PM and Farron as Deputy PM, now that would put the pigeon amongst the cats.

A few years of chaos followed, hopefully, by a sensible government.

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