Byron

Will the EU produce a 'Cargo Cult?'

15 posts in this topic

The idea that the hard earned tax pounds of UK workers should go to build infra structure in Eastern Europe rather then save UK Grannies dying on trolleys in NHS hospitals seems to go down well with naïve Metropolitan SJW types.

They argue that these countries will soon get up to speed with Western Europe and then present a huge market for our manufactured goods.

But will they?

Only a lefty lightweight could believe that showering largesse will encourage a work ethic. And seeing that the best parts of the Eastern bloc work force are now in the West. exactly how is this supposed to occur?

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All the EU will ever do is drive normal people down to the lowest common denominator, it will most definately not improve the lot of your typical western european worker.

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The work ethic in most parts of eastern europe is far stronger than in the UK.

In fact the same goes for much of western europe. If anything in my experience, having lived in multiple european countries, the UK has a serious problem with low work ethic when compared to the rest of europe.

4 hours ago, Byron said:

Only a lefty lightweight could believe that showering largesse will encourage a work ethic.

 

Edited by The Eagle

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10 hours ago, ChewingGrass said:

All the EU will ever do is drive normal people down to the lowest common denominator, it will most definately not improve the lot of your typical western european worker.

Was east German reunification also the wrong thing?

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9 hours ago, The Eagle said:

The work ethic in most parts of eastern europe is far stronger than in the UK.

In fact the same goes for much of western europe. If anything in my experience, having lived in multiple european countries, the UK has a serious problem with low work ethic when compared to the rest of europe.

 

So showering EE countries with handouts may have the same effect on work ethics as turning on the money hose in the UK.

Edited by LiveinHope

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13 hours ago, Byron said:

The idea that the hard earned tax pounds of UK workers should go to build infra structure in Eastern Europe rather then save UK Grannies dying on trolleys in NHS hospitals seems to go down well with naïve Metropolitan SJW types.

They argue that these countries will soon get up to speed with Western Europe and then present a huge market for our manufactured goods.

But will they?

Only a lefty lightweight could believe that showering largesse will encourage a work ethic. And seeing that the best parts of the Eastern bloc work force are now in the West. exactly how is this supposed to occur?

Where's the line between "worth ethic" and "will put up with being exploited to the hilt"?

As for the assumption about bringing eastern Europe up, is there much sign of that happening? Have these people actually taken a look?

In any case why are they so desperate to increase the rate we burn through resources?

The upside of it all (and so perhaps I should've voted for Remain) is that the more money goes on the EU the less there is here to be spent on things to fvck up the place. Grannies will still die on trolleys regardless, if there's a big pot of cash it'll always get spent on a big and shiny white elephant rather than the unsexy basics, so we get new hospitals but no interest in buying beds to go in it or spending money on training nurses to staff it (particularly when the plan is to parasite them from other countries).

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22 hours ago, Riedquat said:

Where's the line between "worth ethic" and "will put up with being exploited to the hilt"?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10391238/Benefits-in-Europe-country-by-country.html

 

AUSTRIA

Health care Available immediately, but only if you pay “social insurance”

Child benefit Immediate payment of £89 per month

Unemployment benefit Only available to people who have paid social insurance

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

BELGIUM

Health care Available after a year

Child benefit £115 a month, available immediately

Unemployment benefit Have to have previously worked in Belgium

Housing benefit No national scheme; amounts vary regionally.

BULGARIA

Health care Free emergency care immediately; other treatments only available if you pay social insurance

Child benefit Targeted schemes restricted to Bulgarian citizens

Unemployment benefit Minimum of nine months of working in the country required to qualify

Housing benefit Immediate monthly allowance buzt only if you have a local authority home already

CYPRUS

Health care Free, available immediately

Child benefit Immediate yearly payment of £444

Unemployment benefit Six months of work in Cyprus required to qualify

Housing benefit Immediately available, limited to £506 a month

CZECH REPUBLIC

Health care Available immediately but cash charges apply

Child benefit £23 a month available immediately

Unemployment benefit 12-month minimum qualifying period

Housing benefit Available immediately

DENMARK

Health care Free, available immediately

Child benefit Up to £161 a month available after 12 months

Unemployment benefit Minimum of one year’s work required to qualify

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

ESTONIA

Health care Available immediately but cash payments required for some treatments

Child benefit £16 per month available immediately

Unemployment benefit £12.50 per week available immediately

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

FINLAND

Health care Public health service charging flat-rate fees. Available immediately

Child benefit £88 per month available immediately

Unemployment benefit Basic weekly unemployment allowance available after two months

Housing benefit Up to 80 per cent of housing costs available immediately but system varies regionally

FRANCE

Health care Only available with a card proving entitlement, issued to residents

Child benefit Immediate payment, but only for parents with more than one child

Unemployment benefit Four-month qualifying period

Housing benefit Immediate; scheme based on house size and local factors

GERMANY

Health care Only available with a health insurance card

Child benefit £155 per month available immediately

Unemployment benefit Immediate means-tested allowance for jobseekers who have made "intensive efforts" to find work

Housing benefit Full amount of housing costs available immediately

GREECE

Health care 100 days of work required to qualify

Child benefit No equivalent scheme

Unemployment benefit Minimum of six months of work required to qualify

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

HUNGARY

Health care Not immediately available

Child benefit £40.60 per month available immediately

Unemployment benefit Minimum qualifying period of 360 days

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

IRELAND

Health care Free after living in Ireland for three consecutive years, but free immediately to UK citizens

Child benefit £110 per month available immediately

Unemployment benefit £160 per week available immediately

Housing benefit Immediate rent supplement providing short-term support

ITALY

Health care Free, available immediately

Child benefit No equivalent scheme

Unemployment benefit Qualifying period of three months

Housing benefit No national scheme; varies according to region

LATVIA

Health care Public health service with fees for GP and hospital visits, available immediately

Child benefit Immediate monthly payment of £9.30

Unemployment benefit One-year qualifying period

Housing benefit Varies locally

LITHUANIA

Health care Three months qualifying period but “urgent care” free immediately

Child benefit Immediate monthly payment of £24

Unemployment benefit 18-month qualifying period

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

LUXEMBOURG

Health care Not available immediately, as insurance-based

Child benefit £157.10 per month available immediately

Unemployment benefit Minimum of six months of work required to qualify

Housing benefit Immediate rent allowance of up to £104.90

MALTA

Health care Free, available immediately

Child benefit Immediate payment; up to £81.55 a month

Unemployment benefit Immediate means-tested benefit of up to £16 per day

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

POLAND

Health care Free, available immediately

Child benefit Immediate payment of up to £54 per month

Unemployment benefit Qualifying period of one year

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

PORTUGAL

Health care Free, available immediately

Child benefit Monthly payment of up to £40

Unemployment benefit Qualifying period of 180 days

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

ROMANIA

Health care six-month qualifying period, except for emergencies

Child benefit monthly payment of up to £20

Unemployment benefit minimum qualifying period of 12 months

Housing benefit no equivalent scheme

SLOVAKIA

Health care immediately available; nominal cash payment for treatments

Child benefit immediate monthly payment of £19

Unemployment benefit minimum two-year qualifying period

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

SLOVENIA

Health care Available immediately but required to pay minimum of 10 per cent of some treatment costs

Child benefit Immediate payment of up to £97 per month

Unemployment benefit Minimum contribution of nine months

Housing benefit Only available if you already have social housing

SPAIN

Health care Only available with a card proving entitlement

Child benefit Immediate payment of up to £20 per month

Unemployment benefit Immediate payment available based on a variable proportion of average wages

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

SWEDEN

Health care Available immediately; basic fees for care

Child benefit Immediate monthly payment of £101

Unemployment benefit Six-month qualifying period

Housing benefit Immediate monthly allowance of up to £125

HOLLAND

Health care only available with a certificate proving entitlement

Child benefit Immediate payment of £943 per year

Unemployment benefit Six-month qualifying period

Housing benefit Means tested, available immediately

UNITED KINGDOM

Health care Available immediately and free of charge under the National Health Service

Child benefit Paid immediately if the child is under 16, or 16 to 19 and in education or training, and the claimant has an individual income of less than £50,000. Amount is £20.30 a week for the eldest or only child, £13.40 per additional child

Unemployment benefit Immediate payment of £71.70 a week in Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) after proving you are actively seeking work. EU migrants have to pass the “right-to-reside” test to show they are “economically active”. The European Commission wants to abolish this test. There is also contribution-based additional JSA which is only available after working for at least two years.

Housing benefit Available immediately if you are on a low income, whether you are working or unemployed.

How much depends on individual circumstances, but amount cannot normally exceed £250 per week for a one-bedroom property, or up to £400 a week for four bedrooms or more

 

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16 minutes ago, SarahBell said:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10391238/Benefits-in-Europe-country-by-country.html

 

AUSTRIA

Health care Available immediately, but only if you pay “social insurance”

Child benefit Immediate payment of £89 per month

Unemployment benefit Only available to people who have paid social insurance

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

BELGIUM

Health care Available after a year

Child benefit £115 a month, available immediately

Unemployment benefit Have to have previously worked in Belgium

Housing benefit No national scheme; amounts vary regionally.

BULGARIA

Health care Free emergency care immediately; other treatments only available if you pay social insurance

Child benefit Targeted schemes restricted to Bulgarian citizens

Unemployment benefit Minimum of nine months of working in the country required to qualify

Housing benefit Immediate monthly allowance buzt only if you have a local authority home already

CYPRUS

Health care Free, available immediately

Child benefit Immediate yearly payment of £444

Unemployment benefit Six months of work in Cyprus required to qualify

Housing benefit Immediately available, limited to £506 a month

CZECH REPUBLIC

Health care Available immediately but cash charges apply

Child benefit £23 a month available immediately

Unemployment benefit 12-month minimum qualifying period

Housing benefit Available immediately

DENMARK

Health care Free, available immediately

Child benefit Up to £161 a month available after 12 months

Unemployment benefit Minimum of one year’s work required to qualify

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

ESTONIA

Health care Available immediately but cash payments required for some treatments

Child benefit £16 per month available immediately

Unemployment benefit £12.50 per week available immediately

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

FINLAND

Health care Public health service charging flat-rate fees. Available immediately

Child benefit £88 per month available immediately

Unemployment benefit Basic weekly unemployment allowance available after two months

Housing benefit Up to 80 per cent of housing costs available immediately but system varies regionally

FRANCE

Health care Only available with a card proving entitlement, issued to residents

Child benefit Immediate payment, but only for parents with more than one child

Unemployment benefit Four-month qualifying period

Housing benefit Immediate; scheme based on house size and local factors

GERMANY

Health care Only available with a health insurance card

Child benefit £155 per month available immediately

Unemployment benefit Immediate means-tested allowance for jobseekers who have made "intensive efforts" to find work

Housing benefit Full amount of housing costs available immediately

GREECE

Health care 100 days of work required to qualify

Child benefit No equivalent scheme

Unemployment benefit Minimum of six months of work required to qualify

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

HUNGARY

Health care Not immediately available

Child benefit £40.60 per month available immediately

Unemployment benefit Minimum qualifying period of 360 days

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

IRELAND

Health care Free after living in Ireland for three consecutive years, but free immediately to UK citizens

Child benefit £110 per month available immediately

Unemployment benefit £160 per week available immediately

Housing benefit Immediate rent supplement providing short-term support

ITALY

Health care Free, available immediately

Child benefit No equivalent scheme

Unemployment benefit Qualifying period of three months

Housing benefit No national scheme; varies according to region

LATVIA

Health care Public health service with fees for GP and hospital visits, available immediately

Child benefit Immediate monthly payment of £9.30

Unemployment benefit One-year qualifying period

Housing benefit Varies locally

LITHUANIA

Health care Three months qualifying period but “urgent care” free immediately

Child benefit Immediate monthly payment of £24

Unemployment benefit 18-month qualifying period

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

LUXEMBOURG

Health care Not available immediately, as insurance-based

Child benefit £157.10 per month available immediately

Unemployment benefit Minimum of six months of work required to qualify

Housing benefit Immediate rent allowance of up to £104.90

MALTA

Health care Free, available immediately

Child benefit Immediate payment; up to £81.55 a month

Unemployment benefit Immediate means-tested benefit of up to £16 per day

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

POLAND

Health care Free, available immediately

Child benefit Immediate payment of up to £54 per month

Unemployment benefit Qualifying period of one year

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

PORTUGAL

Health care Free, available immediately

Child benefit Monthly payment of up to £40

Unemployment benefit Qualifying period of 180 days

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

ROMANIA

Health care six-month qualifying period, except for emergencies

Child benefit monthly payment of up to £20

Unemployment benefit minimum qualifying period of 12 months

Housing benefit no equivalent scheme

SLOVAKIA

Health care immediately available; nominal cash payment for treatments

Child benefit immediate monthly payment of £19

Unemployment benefit minimum two-year qualifying period

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

SLOVENIA

Health care Available immediately but required to pay minimum of 10 per cent of some treatment costs

Child benefit Immediate payment of up to £97 per month

Unemployment benefit Minimum contribution of nine months

Housing benefit Only available if you already have social housing

SPAIN

Health care Only available with a card proving entitlement

Child benefit Immediate payment of up to £20 per month

Unemployment benefit Immediate payment available based on a variable proportion of average wages

Housing benefit No equivalent scheme

SWEDEN

Health care Available immediately; basic fees for care

Child benefit Immediate monthly payment of £101

Unemployment benefit Six-month qualifying period

Housing benefit Immediate monthly allowance of up to £125

HOLLAND

Health care only available with a certificate proving entitlement

Child benefit Immediate payment of £943 per year

Unemployment benefit Six-month qualifying period

Housing benefit Means tested, available immediately

UNITED KINGDOM

Health care Available immediately and free of charge under the National Health Service

Child benefit Paid immediately if the child is under 16, or 16 to 19 and in education or training, and the claimant has an individual income of less than £50,000. Amount is £20.30 a week for the eldest or only child, £13.40 per additional child

Unemployment benefit Immediate payment of £71.70 a week in Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) after proving you are actively seeking work. EU migrants have to pass the “right-to-reside” test to show they are “economically active”. The European Commission wants to abolish this test. There is also contribution-based additional JSA which is only available after working for at least two years.

Housing benefit Available immediately if you are on a low income, whether you are working or unemployed.

How much depends on individual circumstances, but amount cannot normally exceed £250 per week for a one-bedroom property, or up to £400 a week for four bedrooms or more

 

I note that in-work benefits such as tax-credits are missed out of that list.

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On 20/03/2017 at 8:37 PM, Byron said:

The idea that the hard earned tax pounds of UK workers should go to build infra structure in Eastern Europe rather then save UK Grannies dying on trolleys in NHS hospitals seems to go down well with naïve Metropolitan SJW types.

They argue that these countries will soon get up to speed with Western Europe and then present a huge market for our manufactured goods.

But will they?

Only a lefty lightweight could believe that showering largesse will encourage a work ethic. And seeing that the best parts of the Eastern bloc work force are now in the West. exactly how is this supposed to occur?

neo-liberalism and political correctness are "cargo cults" by almost any definition. Driven by delusional beliefs about a form of "divinity" of a bunch of over-evolved apes.

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On 21/03/2017 at 0:48 AM, The Eagle said:

The work ethic in most parts of eastern europe is far stronger than in the UK.

 

Honestly this is laughable. Take a dirt poor EE worker, put them in a the UK where the min wage is 3 or 4 times their native average wage and yes youl get a nobel prize winning work ethic. However in their own countries working for sod all they are pretty much the laziest bunch of f*ckers on earth who will use every trick and scam they can to do as little as possble and game the system rotten. Really people making these statements have obviously not done much travelling/living in EE.

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On 21/03/2017 at 7:13 AM, thecrashingisles said:

Was east German reunification also the wrong thing?

It was for west Germans.  That's probably a price they were willing to pay however, due to a shared allegiance to a united Germany.

Not many people in the UK, certainly not anything like a majority, have that sort of shared allegiance with Romania.

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The EU won't do cargoes as well as John Masefield...

Quinquireme of Nineveh from distant Ophir,
Rowing home to haven in sunny Palestine,
With a cargo of ivory,
And apes and peacocks,
Sandalwood, cedarwood, and sweet white wine.

Stately Spanish galleon coming from the Isthmus,
Dipping through the Tropics by the palm-green shores,
With a cargo of diamonds,
Emeralds, amythysts,
Topazes, and cinnamon, and gold moidores.

Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack,
Butting through the Channel in the mad March days,
With a cargo of Tyne coal,
Road-rails, pig-lead,
Firewood, iron-ware, and cheap tin trays.

 

XYY

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On 21/03/2017 at 1:48 AM, The Eagle said:

The work ethic in most parts of eastern europe is far stronger than in the UK.

Fair do.

But would you then accept that the UK workers in turn have a far stronger work ethic than workers in some other (non-EE) countries?

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The UK Housing market has been as Cargo Cult for decades.

Believe me those Melanesians are more likely to see John Frum arrive with his Cargo than the UK is ever going to build a successful economy based on HPI.

All those HTB initiatives and other props to tne housing market etc announced by successive Chancellors are just our version of the phoney runways, straw headphones and gimcrack air traffic control huts that south sea islanders build in the hope the treasure will come.

 

Edited by stormymonday_2011

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