GreenDevil

Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

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David Davis leaves Brussels after less than one hour of Brexit talks

Davis’s early departure was pre-planned in order to vote in parliament, a Brexit department spokeswoman said. Brexit secretary took part in less than one hour of discussions with the EU on the first day of substantive negotiations with Brussels before his early return to Westminster prompted suggestions that the government’s parliamentary weakness was impeding the talks. Officials for the Department for Exiting the EU insisted that Davis had always intended to leave the talks after a meet and greet with the EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, but the cabinet minister’s swift exit from the proceedings raised eyebrows in Brussels.

Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, claimed the British government was proving itself unable to negotiate. He said: “Since the election the government has been in disarray. There is no agreed cabinet position on vital Brexit issues, the negotiating team is not prepared and the prime minister has lost her authority. Meanwhile the clock is ticking and the risks are increasing day by day. Guardian

 

Oh yes, that's what I call hard exit. Barnier definitely wasn't expect that.

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1 minute ago, GrizzlyDave said:

That's still not pro-EU.

Why would they want the UK to stay in the single market and the custom union if they don't like those core structures of the EU?

Your definition of "pro-EU" must be very different from mine. Does it require sleeping under a blue duvet cover with yellow stars?

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2 minutes ago, rollover said:

 

Oh yes, that's what I call hard exit. Barnier definitely wasn't expect that.

This must be some clever negotiation strategy, being unprepared and showing you don't care.   

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6 minutes ago, slawek said:

Why would they want the UK to stay in the single market and the custom union if they don't like those core structures of the EU?

Your definition of "pro-EU" must be very different from mine. Does it require sleeping under a blue duvet cover with yellow stars?

Pro-EU is wanting to remain an EU member.

What % of labour voters fall into that definition?

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6 hours ago, ccc said:

:lol::lol:

Amazing. You have just proven my point perfectly. And I only said this as a hypothetical example. And you STILL couldn't help yourself.

Absolutely superb. :D

This post makes no sense at all - what on earth are you talking about. 

 

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4 hours ago, kzb said:

What about the Blair "intervention" this weekend?

If it had been Trump, the BBC would've been all over it, saying he's delusional and spreading fake news.

Because it's Blair, they let him say the EU is willing to compromise on FoM, with little challenge.  This was actually reported as serious news on BBC TV.

Blair apparently has heard it said the EU would compromise to keep the UK in.  He was never challenged to reveal where this came from.  The official line is the four freedoms are non-negotiable:  "This is not poussible" remember from Barnier only the other week.

How is it this Blair interview was reported like this?

Meh, just call it Freedom of Labour and get Corbyn to kick start a Trade Union movement. Job done, Brexit over, swivel-eyed can swivel, hpc next.

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7 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Pro-EU is wanting to remain an EU member.

What % of labour voters fall into that definition?

Around 2/3 Lab voters voted and would still vote to stay.

BTW the poll above was of Lab members not voters. 

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5 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

This post makes no sense at all - what on earth are you talking about. 

 

If you can't make sense of that - well - best of luck to you. 

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4 minutes ago, slawek said:

Around 2/3 Lab voters voted and would still vote to stay.

BTW the poll above was of Lab members not voters. 

Linky.

point taken members/voters.

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4 hours ago, kzb said:

What about the Blair "intervention" this weekend?

If it had been Trump, the BBC would've been all over it, saying he's delusional and spreading fake news.

Because it's Blair, they let him say the EU is willing to compromise on FoM, with little challenge.  This was actually reported as serious news on BBC TV.

Blair apparently has heard it said the EU would compromise to keep the UK in.  He was never challenged to reveal where this came from.  The official line is the four freedoms are non-negotiable:  "This is not poussible" remember from Barnier only the other week.

How is it this Blair interview was reported like this?

That's because everyone knows its true. It was  agreed by the major players just after the referendum that once reality, that Brexit means Leaving and that there will be no "cherry picking" of  the benefits of being in the EU, sinks in we will be offered a deal restricting FoM for a long period probably 10-15 years.

I posted the "rumors" at the time, it was confirmed by speeches made by Merkel and Hollande in the following weeks that used the exact wording contained in the rumors, so assuming it still holds we have another year or so to stew before the offer is made.        

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8 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Like weaning an addict off heroin, leaving will be hard.

Not sure that is a great analogy.

For it to work, we would have to be an addict who wanted to keep on getting the high provided by Heroin but without the side effects or having to pay his dealer for a continuing supply of the drug.  

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1 hour ago, slawek said:

Interesting poll among Labour members, I wonder how Corbyn is going to square this with his views.

On Brexit, the survey revealed that their views are fiercely pro-EU, including that:

  • 49% of members think there should “definitely” be a vote on the final Brexit deal, with a further 29.4% answering “more yes than no” to the question, and only 8.8% definitely opposing it.
  • Two-thirds of members (66%) think Britain should definitely stay in the single market with a further fifth (20.7%) saying “more yes than no” to the question. Only 4.2% of Labour members said they definitely believed Britain should leave the grouping.
  • There were similar levels of support on the customs union with 63.1% saying Britain should definitely stay within the group, 22.2% leaning towards the same position, and only 2.4% saying the UK should definitely leave it.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/17/most-labour-members-want-uk-to-remain-in-single-market

Corbyn doesn't have to square anything. 

All he has to do is denounce the deal as a failed Tory Brexit (too hard. too soft - doesn't matter) and oppose it.  

Either the deal will fail to get through the HoC in which case there will have to be an immediate GE, or it gets through and the next GE is held just as all the economic dislocation caused by leaving has had time to impact.

As long he sticks to repeatedly denouncing the "FAILED TORY BREXIT" and avoids completely screwing up, its hard to see how he can lose.   

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31 minutes ago, ccc said:

If you can't make sense of that - well - best of luck to you. 

:lol: That's a bit rich coming from you.

Thanks for the concern but I think I and the other neuro-normals  on here will manage just fine.   

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9 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Corbyn doesn't have to square anything. 

All he has to do is denounce the deal as a failed Tory Brexit (too hard. too soft - doesn't matter) and oppose it.  

Either the deal will fail to get through the HoC in which case there will have to be an immediate GE,

 

What happens if it gets blocked by the HOL (my understanding is the Salisbury convention doesn't count if no overall majority) could the gov last a year?

Edited by knock out johnny

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2 hours ago, knock out johnny said:

What happens if it gets blocked by the HOL (my understanding is the Salisbury convention doesn't count if no overall majority) could the gov last a year?

I think, but might well be wrong, that the HoL can delay legislation by a Parliamentary session which in this case would be 2 years. 

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16 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:
23 hours ago, ExiledMatty said:

You only have to look at how Brits tend to blend in better when they emigrate to anglo countries. Compare that to the 'English' villages of France, the Spanish Brit 'costas'.

Even somewhere like Melbourne that still has ghettos where Italians, Greeks live (we are talking many generations too). No such British ghettos despite the million plus Brits who have moved out to Aus.

Sorry but on an individual level we have far more in common with people from anglo nations but that wasn't really my point.

My point was on a national level. It's been spelt out many times who are real friends are. The likes of Canada, Australia, the U.S., special relationships, first in line for trade deals, happy to lend negotiators etc etc.

I've never heard anything like this coming out of European leaders. We're now disliked even more due to Brexit. 

When it comes down to the vital issues of trust and security then look up 'five eyes'. Says it all to me.

So the English live in villages, the Italians/Greeks in ghettos? not biased/bigoted at all are you

I am neither. How about British immigrants in Spain and Polish expats in the UK? Is that better?

I feel sorry for you pointing out pc nonsense like this. You've clearly been brainwashed by the British education system, BBC and such likes.

(reason #123 why living away from the UK is awesome)

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3 hours ago, ExiledMatty said:

I am neither. How about British immigrants in Spain and Polish expats in the UK? Is that better?

I feel sorry for you pointing out pc nonsense like this. You've clearly been brainwashed by the British education system, BBC and such likes.

(reason #123 why living away from the UK is awesome)

That's a really good point. We have a living ongoing "experiment" of literally millions of Polish coming to live in the UK over the past 15 years. 

They integrate far far less than any Australians, kiwis , south Africans or Americans do when coming to the UK.

They are incredibly insular in general. Very similar to Brits or Irish going to Spain actually.  

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26 minutes ago, ccc said:

 

They integrate far far less than any Australians, kiwis , south Africans or Americans do when coming to the UK.

They are incredibly insular in general. Very similar to Brits or Irish going to Spain actually.  

Really. So the 250k Poles who settled in the UK after 1945 are not integrated? Where are they? Could you show how these Poles are different from other nationalitys?

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7 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

Really. So the 250k Poles who settled in the UK after 1945 are not integrated? Where are they? Could you show how these Poles are different from other nationalitys?

Different times. We were united against a common enemy.

we also had a smaller population density - so not the same space issues.

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19 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

Really. So the 250k Poles who settled in the UK after 1945 are not integrated? Where are they? Could you show how these Poles are different from other nationalitys?

You're talking about their offspring. 

Polish coming here in general don't integrate into the UK very well at all.

I can't believe I'm actually having this discussion. Do you actually live in the UK ? Serious question. 

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Quote

 

Brexit has begun damaging London's economy

Research from the Centre for London found that the UK’s impending departure from the EU has caused a “wobble” in the capital’s economy because of a slowdown in job creation. The think tank claimed Brexit is already leading to scores of Europeans not coming to the capital to work, has led to a decline in confidence among businesses and is decelerating house price growth. The Centre for London found that registrations for new national insurance numbers by foreign workers have fallen by 15 per cent in the capital over the last year, with three-quarters of the fall accounted for by a drop in EU migration. Year-on-year house price growth was under 3 per cent for the three months to April 2017, the lowest level in London since 2012, while increases in private rental values dropped below 2 per cent to their lowest rate since 2010. ES

 

It must be shock for some of here like ccc, who argued the opposite.

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2 minutes ago, rollover said:

 

It must be shock for some of here like ccc, who argued the opposite.

What did I argue ? The opposite ? 

If less folk from the EU are now coming to the UK - for whatever reason - that's great news. 

The population strain on us is at dangerous levels already. 

Long may it continue. 

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5 minutes ago, ccc said:

What did I argue ? The opposite ? 

If less folk from the EU are now coming to the UK - for whatever reason - that's great news. 

The population strain on us is at dangerous levels already. 

Long may it continue. 

And so it will!

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