Maynardgravy Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 13 hours ago, Peter Hun said: So.. a bunch of vikings lucked out and are squatting on a load of natural resources. Their contribution to world culture doesn't extend further than stealing from each other and the ambition to steal from their neighbours. At least we know you know nothing about music, literature or ballet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 The disorganised disunity of the UK is not going unnoticed by our biggest European trading partner: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/brexit-eu-und-grossbritannien-steuern-auf-scheitern-zu-a-1157448.html Executive summary - they are starting to lose faith in the ability of the UK to get it's act together and decide what it wants. Interestly, even on the matter of citizen's rights post-Brexit, the UK doesn't seem to have a clear position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Watching Fox being interviewed by Andrew Neil, he definitely doesn't know; bit of a car crash interview. Ok but let's look at this from the other end of the telescope. TM clearly has limitations, I'm not sure if Fox is suffering from some sort of mental illness or not, but I would credit Davis with some sense. One way of looking at Brexit is essentially a commitment to spunk all the resource we don't have left replicating (sovereignty over) an eye-watering amount of red tape, a mostly flagrantly pointless exercise (kind of like paying to set up and run your own individual council services instead of getting on with your life), but occasionally controversial such as immigration, fisheries etc. I hear the screams coming out of the civil service, but Davis will obviously know this and I doubt would simply ignore, whatever he outwardly says. Additionally the impact of the cost will depend on the time we have to implement. I would guess that TMs no deal/bad deal formula is simply a rhetorical attempt to make our greatest weakness a strength. It isn't 1920 though everything is obvious/ transparent and everybody knows each others position other than fanatics in the electorate. Time is key then to success. If Davis has anything in his magic briefcase it would be about delaying (i.e. spreading the catastrophic cost over time of) Brexit. It would therefore either be something that all 27 countries would not be able to agree on during the negotiation period, or simply a plea for a mutually beneficial transitional deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said: Well done for confirming the ignorant view on Russia. Russia can go and **** itself. Any country that threatens to nuke my country (and every neutral country in Europe) is no friend of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 2 hours ago, ccc said: I gave a detailed answer - not my problem if you have difficulty reading. You're right - I can only cope with yes/no answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 55 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: Russia can go and **** itself. Any country that threatens to nuke my country (and every neutral country in Europe) is no friend of mine. What countries are friends of the UK? There is a big difference between a threat, and action. Russia needs to be seen to be tough. Just like the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 21 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: What countries are friends of the UK? There is a big difference between a threat, and action. Russia needs to be seen to be tough. Just like the USA. There isn't really. Murdering people on our streets with radioactive substances is an action. Meddling in elections is an action. Submarines sent on incursions is an action. They are also threats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: Watching Fox being interviewed by Andrew Neil, he definitely doesn't know; bit of a car crash interview. The Tories are falling apart like a cheap suit (or a Chocolate Orange ). Kindof funny / sad / incredibly transparent all the stuff they've been leaking about Hammond to try and discredit him. They are getting so scared Brexit isn't going to happen in any meaningful way, but instead of developing a kick-ass plan to implement it and buliding bridges, all they can do is try to remove what they perceive as the "threat". This is what happens when you have a movement driven largely by people who have not built anything of value, just spent their lives tearing things down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said: What countries are friends of the UK? There is a big difference between a threat, and action. Russia needs to be seen to be tough. Just like the USA. Tough to what end. They hardly need more space or resources, they cannot even manage what they have. Russia is just one great missed opportunity, it should be a rich nation completely self sufficient nation with no natural enemies. Instead it's a dirt poor country armed to the teeth country run by a thug. A nice line in ballet etc hardly makes up for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 34 minutes ago, Futuroid said: The Tories are falling apart like a cheap suit (or a Chocolate Orange ). Kindof funny / sad / incredibly transparent all the stuff they've been leaking about Hammond to try and discredit him. They are getting so scared Brexit isn't going to happen in any meaningful way, but instead of developing a kick-ass plan to implement it and buliding bridges, all they can do is try to remove what they perceive as the "threat". This is what happens when you have a movement driven largely by people who have not built anything of value, just spent their lives tearing things down. Undermining Hammond is just digging an even bigger electoral hole for themselves. Apparently Boris is still favorite among Tory party members to take over from May, which seems to completely ignore the mood of the country and would play straight into Corbyn's hands. Don't they realise that whatever their views on Brexit this is not a time to be led by a clown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 4 hours ago, HairyOb1 said: If we do leave, we're effectively going to trade war with 27 nations, 2 of which are far stronger than us. Nothing is happening, nothing; civil servants are stating this, that nothing is happening, that they don't even have the staff to start doing anything. And the nasty French are trying to take advantage of our foolishness. What rogues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: Undermining Hammond is just digging an even bigger electoral hole for themselves. Apparently Boris is still favorite among Tory party members to take over from May, which seems to completely ignore the mood of the country and would play straight into Corbyn's hands. Don't they realise that whatever their views on Brexit this is not a time to be led by a clown. I can't decide who I want the most - Johnson or Mogg! Both would result in a massive gift to Labour and the end of the Tories as a viable party for a generation. The complete lack of talent in the cabinet is quite astonishing. I can't remember it ever being worse, I mean most of them can't even do a quick interview without putting their foot in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, thecrashingisles said: And the nasty French are trying to take advantage of our foolishness. What rogues! Yes, fancy have the brass neck to try and compete with us for business. The bare faced cheek of it. Just imagine how outraged we are going to be when the Germans and Japanese box up their factories and ship them over to continental Europe. Meanwhile, the Germans told the Irish they think the British government is "farcical" and "making it up as they went along" after a visit to Westminster. Brexit: German politicians tell Irish counterparts ‘British are a disgrace’ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brexit-german-politicians-irish-british-disgrace-farcical-a7843526.html Not news to anyone who lives in the UK and has to listen the utter fantasy that our political class put out regarding Brexit, but worrying that the emperor's lack of clothes are starting to raise eyebrows beyond the English Channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 6 hours ago, HairyOb1 said: The bed wetting has been ridiculous from the leave group, but trust me, this is not all over and nor is it a football match with winners and losers, as it's a losing situation for both sides, so to dress it up as anything other than that's fairly foolish. If we do leave, we're effectively going to trade war with 27 nations, 2 of which are far stronger than us. Nothing is happening, nothing; civil servants are stating this, that nothing is happening, that they don't even have the staff to start doing anything. You're truly in a severe case of denial if you actually do think anything is happening. Don't apply logic to this fella, he's clearly going to boil a blood vessel when we don't actually leave.... Nothing is happening ? Would you like to have a bet in that ? Money = mouth. 6 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: You are very funny. I have set up working groups is what you say when you have achieved nothing. So Fox knows what's happening ? Unlike what you have said ? Come on - out with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 54 minutes ago, Futuroid said: I can't decide who I want the most - Johnson or Mogg! Both would result in a massive gift to Labour and the end of the Tories as a viable party for a generation. The complete lack of talent in the cabinet is quite astonishing. I can't remember it ever being worse, I mean most of them can't even do a quick interview without putting their foot in it. Labour is not better. Now they want have the cake and eat it. They know that they don't get any credit by telling the truth, it is much better to tell fairy tales and let Tories crash the country and themselves. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/16/labour-rebecca-long-bailey-brexit-cake-and-eat-it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, slawek said: Labour is not better. Now they want have the cake and eat it. They know that they don't get any credit by telling the truth, it is much better to tell fairy tales and let Tories crash the country and themselves. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/16/labour-rebecca-long-bailey-brexit-cake-and-eat-it Of course they want the Tories to crash. Which is precisely why Corbyn didn't fall for May's "let's share Brexit together" trap. He wants all the s**t to be stuck to the Tories, as it will be. I don't think Labour are better, but the Tories aren't exactly being straight with people over Brexit now are they? TBH the ideal scenario would be a vote of no confidence in the current government (highly likely) which leads to another general election where Labour get the most MPs but not enough for a majority and have to rely on the Lib Dems and SNP to keep them straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 44 minutes ago, Futuroid said: Of course they want the Tories to crash. Which is precisely why Corbyn didn't fall for May's "let's share Brexit together" trap. He wants all the s**t to be stuck to the Tories, as it will be. I don't think Labour are better, but the Tories aren't exactly being straight with people over Brexit now are they? TBH the ideal scenario would be a vote of no confidence in the current government (highly likely) which leads to another general election where Labour get the most MPs but not enough for a majority and have to rely on the Lib Dems and SNP to keep them straight. Britain needs an urgent reality check. At the moment behaves like a spoil child, thinking it is exceptional and deserves some special treatment. Playing politics around this won't do much good for the country. All looks now that Tories will do some show for the public how though they are with the EU hoping the other side will chicken out in the last minute and offer some solution that will avoid "no deal" scenario and the huge mess coming with it. Remembering Greece "negotiation" and how well the EU is prepared I wouldn't count on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Futuroid said: Of course they want the Tories to crash. Which is precisely why Corbyn didn't fall for May's "let's share Brexit together" trap. He wants all the s**t to be stuck to the Tories, as it will be. I don't think Labour are better, but the Tories aren't exactly being straight with people over Brexit now are they? TBH the ideal scenario would be a vote of no confidence in the current government (highly likely) which leads to another general election where Labour get the most MPs but not enough for a majority and have to rely on the Lib Dems and SNP to keep them straight. What on earth makes you think that the Tories could not weather a vote of no confidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, ccc said: So Fox knows what's happening ? Unlike what you have said ? Come on - out with it. Out with what - the fact that you must be one of the most gullible people on earth not to be able to see through that car crash interview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Byron said: What on earth makes you think that the Tories could not weather a vote of no confidence? What makes you think they could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 13 hours ago, ExiledMatty said: As a nation, we have more in common with the anglo countries than we do with the likes of EU countries such as France. Not by DNA Matty:http://thedockyards.com/genetic-maps-of-europe/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 8 hours ago, Maynardgravy said: At least we know you know nothing about music, literature or ballet. Gravy - I have a soft spot for Eastern Slavs - long story. Anyway I have friends, both Russian and Ukrainian. Been to both quite a few times. Their older cultural heritage was helped by their connection to Europe, the Tsars and royal families etc. The writing and music was supreme - albeit characteristically deep and downbeat. Since the revolution(s), they have not created much as most of the talent went into the game of either propaganda or creating against the state. These days, the culture is one of either survival or oligarchy with courtiers. It's a very dangerous place. Humanity does not thrive under an umbrella of fear and hopelessness. As I said, a real shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: Having worked in the US and several EU countries, I would argue that culturally we are nothing like the US despite our shared language. In fact I felt we had far more in common with the Germans, especially the Bavarian's than the American's. People keep on saying we should align ourselves more with the Americans. Their business, political and financial systems are truly alien to the traditions and good things of this country. I have no doubt their ability to innovate is (or has been) spectacular. But Wall Street has the country by the b*lls now, which is why there are no rocket scientists, only super-brained PHD's working on how to make the sheep click and buy more. People must be careful what they wish for. The UK will be completely hollowed out by the Elites of America if we get any closer. It's bad enough already. Edited July 16, 2017 by jonb2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 32 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: What makes you think they could. Maths? But then as my Gran always said, lefties can't do sums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 8 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: Watching Fox being interviewed by Andrew Neil, he definitely doesn't know; bit of a car crash interview. 39 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Out with what - the fact that you must be one of the most gullible people on earth not to be able to see through that car crash interview. Does he know about various Brexit related things that are happening ? Yes or no ? It's a rhetorical question btw. He clearly does. Which makes your statement nonsense. Yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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