Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[CunningPlan]

My guess is they are all working towards another referendum in two years time.

What is interesting is the change in media coverage. I recall a few years ago, everything about Europe was negative - we would have to bail out pensions / couldn't do this / that, everything about Europe was bad. These new stories have completely disappeared, to be replace with how bad it will be if / when we leave without the right deal.

Two years of Europe good / leaving bad messages should swing the few % needed to change the referendum result.

My personal view is that we will see that it is almost impossible to come to any kind of deal with Europe. Gov't will agree something / Parliament will change it, Europe negotiator might agree then one of the 43 Walloon like interests will want something changed and round we go again forever.

Oddly Trump is being blamed for being protectionist. But I see now that it is almost impossible for Europe en mass to negotiate trade deals (maybe by design) so in fact Europe is even more inward looking then the hated Trump.  Tying ourselves to this is madness when the main growth areas are outside the EU.

I also take issue with the argument that as a small nation we cannot make such good deals. Take the USA - my guess is that they want access to our finance / insurance / tech / environmental offerings, and want to sell us cars and foodstuffs. That is great - we can work with that and it is a win / win deal. Bring even just France and Germany into the relationship and the food and cars issue will rule out any kind of decent deal. Bring all 27 nations, with their entirely different strengths and needs into the equation, and you will go round in circles for ever. 

[the gardener]

The only thing that makes me think they're not working towards a second referendum is the enormous loss of face and subsequent rogering from the EU we will receive from them. We'll be in Schengen and the Euro and have an EU army (which will station foreign troops in the UK - for our protection don't you know).

If it wasn't for that I believe a 2nd referendum is on the cards. However there are so many Remainers who hate themselves and the British so perhaps we will be destroyed from within after all.

[rollover]

May suggests UK's richest aristocrat landowners will get farming subsidies funded by British taxpayer after Brexit

British aristocrats who rank among some of the country’s richest landowners could be set to receive hundreds of thousands of pounds a year from UK taxpayers after Brexit, Theresa May has indicated. Members of the landed gentry such as Prince George’s godfather, the Duke of Westminster, are currently given vast farming subsidies as part of the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy. They are set to be stripped of those subsidies when Britain leaves the bloc, and the Prime Minister suggested the aristocrats would not be left out when the UK comes up with its own agricultural rules.

Chris Bryant, the Labour MP for Rhondda, asked at Prime Minister’s Questions: “When she introduces a UK agricultural policy, because we are out of the common agricultural policy, will the Duke of Westminster still receive £407,000 a year? Will the Duke of Northumberland still receive £475,000 a year?

“And will the Earl of Iveagh still receive 915,000 a year from the British taxpayer?”

Ms May replied: “One of the tasks that we will have when we leave the European Union is to decide what support is provided to agriculture as a result of being outside the common agricultural policy.  Independent

[knock out johnny]

8 minutes ago, the gardener said:

The only thing that makes me think they're not working towards a second referendum is the enormous loss of face and subsequent rogering from the EU we will receive from them. We'll be in Schengen and the Euro and have an EU army (which will station foreign troops in the UK - for our protection don't you know).

If it wasn't for that I believe a 2nd referendum is on the cards. However there are so many Remainers who hate themselves and the British so perhaps we will be destroyed from within after all.

Funny you say this - in my tinfoil hat moments I do wonder if it's all some elaborate ruse to force us into the Euro as the only way we're allowed back into Europe after disastrous trade talks.

Rest assured I would join you with a pitchfork

[CunningPlan]

29 minutes ago, the gardener said:

The only thing that makes me think they're not working towards a second referendum is the enormous loss of face and subsequent rogering from the EU we will receive from them. We'll be in Schengen and the Euro and have an EU army (which will station foreign troops in the UK - for our protection don't you know).

If it wasn't for that I believe a 2nd referendum is on the cards. However there are so many Remainers who hate themselves and the British so perhaps we will be destroyed from within after all.

You are assuming that the EU illuminati aren't in on the charade.

[knock out johnny]

38 minutes ago, rollover said:

May suggests UK's richest aristocrat landowners will get farming subsidies funded by British taxpayer after Brexit

British aristocrats who rank among some of the country’s richest landowners could be set to receive hundreds of thousands of pounds a year from UK taxpayers after Brexit, Theresa May has indicated. Members of the landed gentry such as Prince George’s godfather, the Duke of Westminster, are currently given vast farming subsidies as part of the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy. They are set to be stripped of those subsidies when Britain leaves the bloc, and the Prime Minister suggested the aristocrats would not be left out when the UK comes up with its own agricultural rules.

Chris Bryant, the Labour MP for Rhondda, asked at Prime Minister’s Questions: “When she introduces a UK agricultural policy, because we are out of the common agricultural policy, will the Duke of Westminster still receive £407,000 a year? Will the Duke of Northumberland still receive £475,000 a year?

“And will the Earl of Iveagh still receive 915,000 a year from the British taxpayer?”

Ms May replied: “One of the tasks that we will have when we leave the European Union is to decide what support is provided to agriculture as a result of being outside the common agricultural policy.  Independent

#TakingBackControl 

[the gardener]

39 minutes ago, knock out johnny said:

Funny you say this - in my tinfoil hat moments I do wonder if it's all some elaborate ruse to force us into the Euro as the only way we're allowed back into Europe after disastrous trade talks.

Rest assured I would join you with a pitchfork

You don't want to join the Euro or Schengen? Are they your red lines?

[knock out johnny]

4 minutes ago, the gardener said:

You don't want to join the Euro or Schengen? Are they your red lines?

Euro currency or euro army - fck right off

Edit to add: Schengen - no need for it either

Edited January 25, 2017 by knock out johnny

[rollover]

23 minutes ago, CunningPlan said:

You are assuming that the EU illuminati aren't in on the charade.

I think you read Illuminatia

[the gardener]

39 minutes ago, knock out johnny said:

Euro currency or euro army - fck right off

Edit to add: Schengen - no need for it either

But you love (unlimited?) FoM?

[kzb]

1 hour ago, knock out johnny said:

Funny you say this - in my tinfoil hat moments I do wonder if it's all some elaborate ruse to force us into the Euro as the only way we're allowed back into Europe after disastrous trade talks.

Rest assured I would join you with a pitchfork

I've been thinking this since Day 1.

Behind the scenes, I am sure our establishment are at one with the EU to arrive at the desired outcome.  What gets reported in the media is a circus-like distraction and nothing to do with what is actually happening.

It's the easiest thing in the world to manipulate a population to vote the way you want.  I think it was Goebbels who said this.

[knock out johnny]

Just now, the gardener said:

But you love (unlimited?) FoM?

I knew i'd get dragged into this

I'm fine with FOM in Europe, as i've always stated - we have it as one of the four freedoms allowing us to be part of the eu - in my eyes there's no need or desire to join schengen 

[kzb]

1 hour ago, rollover said:

May suggests UK's richest aristocrat landowners will get farming subsidies funded by British taxpayer after Brexit

British aristocrats who rank among some of the country’s richest landowners could be set to receive hundreds of thousands of pounds a year from UK taxpayers after Brexit, Theresa May has indicated. Members of the landed gentry such as Prince George’s godfather, the Duke of Westminster, are currently given vast farming subsidies as part of the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy. They are set to be stripped of those subsidies when Britain leaves the bloc, and the Prime Minister suggested the aristocrats would not be left out when the UK comes up with its own agricultural rules.

Chris Bryant, the Labour MP for Rhondda, asked at Prime Minister’s Questions: “When she introduces a UK agricultural policy, because we are out of the common agricultural policy, will the Duke of Westminster still receive £407,000 a year? Will the Duke of Northumberland still receive £475,000 a year?

“And will the Earl of Iveagh still receive 915,000 a year from the British taxpayer?”

Ms May replied: “One of the tasks that we will have when we leave the European Union is to decide what support is provided to agriculture as a result of being outside the common agricultural policy.  Independent

But hang on, this piece actually highlights what is wrong with the EU CAP system !    Yes it is something that needs sorting out, and when we leave we'll be able to do it.  If we stay in, we won't.  So this is not an argument against Leave in any shape or form.

(I believe IDS, that well known critic of benefits, gets £1.8m p.a subsidy from the CAP.  And he still wants to Leave.  £1.8m must be small change to him.)

[BearlyBegun]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38749884

Euro 'could fail', says man tipped as US ambassador to EU

The man tipped to be Donald Trump's ambassador to the European Union has told the BBC the single currency "could collapse" in the next 18 months.

He also said Britain could agree a "mutually beneficial" free trade deal with America in as little as 90 days.

[ZeroSumGame]

Quote

The European parliament is to investigate the British government’s treatment of EU nationals living in the UK who have applied for citizenship or permanent residency since the Brexit vote. 

Sophie in ‘t Veld, a deputy leader of the liberal group in the parliament, told the Guardian that she intends to form a cross-party taskforce to examine cases where EU nationals have faced a “bureaucratic wall” when seeking to secure their future in the UK.

TheGuardian

 

[the gardener]

2 hours ago, kzb said:

1 hour ago, ZeroSumGame said:

1 hour ago, ZeroSumGame said:

 

 

But hang on, this piece actually highlights what is wrong with the EU CAP system !    Yes it is something that needs sorting out, and when we leave we'll be able to do it.  If we stay in, we won't.  So this is not an argument against Leave in any shape or form.

(I believe IDS, that well known critic of benefits, gets £1.8m p.a subsidy from the CAP.  And he still wants to Leave.  £1.8m must be small change to him.)

 

[long time lurking]

3 hours ago, knock out johnny said:

#TakingBackControl 

Most if not all of that money is ours even when it comes via the EU ...nothing will have change other than the fact we will have the power to stop paying if we leave i`ll be the first to admit that is highly unlikely for a long time at best if at all but it`s the best chance we have ...whats the other option to stop this theft and how do we make it happen  ? 

\

3 hours ago, knock out johnny said:

  4 hours ago, rollover said:

May suggests UK's richest aristocrat landowners will get farming subsidies funded by British taxpayer after Brexit

British aristocrats who rank among some of the country’s richest landowners could be set to receive hundreds of thousands of pounds a year from UK taxpayers after Brexit, Theresa May has indicated. Members of the landed gentry such as Prince George’s godfather, the Duke of Westminster, are currently given vast farming subsidies as part of the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy. They are set to be stripped of those subsidies when Britain leaves the bloc, and the Prime Minister suggested the aristocrats would not be left out when the UK comes up with its own agricultural rules.

Chris Bryant, the Labour MP for Rhondda, asked at Prime Minister’s Questions: “When she introduces a UK agricultural policy, because we are out of the common agricultural policy, will the Duke of Westminster still receive £407,000 a year? Will the Duke of Northumberland still receive £475,000 a year?

“And will the Earl of Iveagh still receive 915,000 a year from the British taxpayer?”

Ms May replied: “One of the tasks that we will have when we leave the European Union is to decide what support is provided to agriculture as a result of being outside the common agricultural policy.  Independent

 

[the gardener]

1 hour ago, ZeroSumGame said:

 

What's going on with these quote boxes?

 

Anyway - ZeroSumGame - that's a lovely Brussels interference story sure to hardened the already steely resolve of the Leave voters.

I thought we had control and sovereignty over our citizenship? Ream-anus?

Edited January 25, 2017 by the gardener

[Confusion of VIs]

3 hours ago, the gardener said:

What's going on with these quote boxes?

 

Anyway - ZeroSumGame - that's a lovely Brussels interference story sure to hardened the already steely resolve of the Leave voters.

I thought we had control and sovereignty over our citizenship? Ream-anus?

How do you equate expecting the UK to honor agreements it has freely entered into with interference.

 

[ZeroSumGame]

3 hours ago, the gardener said:

Anyway - ZeroSumGame - that's a lovely Brussels interference story sure to hardened the already steely resolve of the Leave voters.

I thought we had control and sovereignty over our citizenship? Ream-anus?

I genuinely  don't know. Maybe you can define what 'control' and 'sovereignty' is ? And how you think that has been increased or diminished.

Oh, and for the record : the battle axis is emphatically Westminster versus Brussels. Not Leave versus Remain. Leave have won, we're onto a new domain, now.

[the gardener]

8 hours ago, ZeroSumGame said:

I genuinely  don't know. Maybe you can define what 'control' and 'sovereignty' is ? And how you think that has been increased or diminished.

Oh, and for the record : the battle axis is emphatically Westminster versus Brussels. Not Leave versus Remain. Leave have won, we're onto a new domain, now.

I think if they're looking for an inefficient and over-bureaucratic process which uneccessarily delays and inconveniences people going about their daily business then I suggest they look closer to home, we've got nothing on them, France and Germany in particular.

[cashinmattress]

17 hours ago, rollover said:

May suggests UK's richest aristocrat landowners will get farming subsidies funded by British taxpayer after Brexit

British aristocrats who rank among some of the country’s richest landowners could be set to receive hundreds of thousands of pounds a year from UK taxpayers after Brexit, Theresa May has indicated. Members of the landed gentry such as Prince George’s godfather, the Duke of Westminster, are currently given vast farming subsidies as part of the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy. They are set to be stripped of those subsidies when Britain leaves the bloc, and the Prime Minister suggested the aristocrats would not be left out when the UK comes up with its own agricultural rules.

Chris Bryant, the Labour MP for Rhondda, asked at Prime Minister’s Questions: “When she introduces a UK agricultural policy, because we are out of the common agricultural policy, will the Duke of Westminster still receive £407,000 a year? Will the Duke of Northumberland still receive £475,000 a year?

“And will the Earl of Iveagh still receive 915,000 a year from the British taxpayer?”

Ms May replied: “One of the tasks that we will have when we leave the European Union is to decide what support is provided to agriculture as a result of being outside the common agricultural policy.  Independent

Torys' brought you deregulation, austerity, denationalised & sold off our assets, and who are now seeking to privatise the NHS and other public services will certainly look after their own rich pals... on your expense account.

Brexit won't be a force for positive change for the vast majority of Brits.

At least the commons debates over whatever this Brexit 'white' paper turns out to be will finally give British citizens the facts and proper consideration... no more outrageous claims and/or lies. 

The idea that comrade May was about to bypass the parliamentary process 'should' be enough of a wake up call for Britons... but alas, most are still in their slumber.

Brexit. First they blamed the EU. Then immigrants. Then what? Unions? Poor people? Scots? Brown eyed girls?

[Riedquat]

33 minutes ago, cashinmattress said:

Torys' brought you deregulation, austerity, denationalised & sold off our assets, and who are now seeking to privatise the NHS and other public services will certainly look after their own rich pals... on your expense account.

Brexit won't be a force for positive change for the vast majority of Brits.

You go on about things the Tories have done (not that I've got much against the concept of austerity if the alternative is trying to borrow your way out of debt), then mention Brexit. Leaving the EU is for longer than this government, you're being very short-termist there. If you don't like the things the Conservatives do vote for someone else. That there isn't anyone else not utterly hopeless is a significant problem but that's hardly a sensible argument for running off to Big Brother instead of trying to fix it.

[kzb]

The truth is, the rich land owner subsidy is a bit of a red herring.  Yes it sticks in my craw that these very wealthy persons are getting subsidies.

However, no-one is going to farm if they lose money on it.

The CAP subsidy represents the majority of EU spend in the UK.  Although I'm not well appraised of this area, from what I hear it is not money well spent.

But if we want to keep farming as a productive industry in the UK, subsidies are inevitable.  In the EU, we are paying about 20% above world price for foodstuffs, plus there are these CAP payments.  And many farmers are still struggling.

We also have a need in this country to protect the natural environment and wildlife, something paid little heed in most countries.  This costs.

[Errol]

BREXIT BILL PUBLISHED: