DarkHorseWaits-NoMore Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, rollover said: ...Farage: “So maybe – just maybe – I’m reaching the point of thinking that we should have a second referendum on EU membership.” 6 hours ago, Futuroid said: ...Maybe Farage knows how bad the next decade is going to be for the UK and doesn't want to be the name associated with it in the history books. Hoo-Feckin-Ray! We might be able to let him live after all , burn the rest of them maggots though (Fox, Gove, Johnson, IDS etc.)... just for foreign holidays costing 20% more if nothing else. I think he knows a second vote of some kind is inevitable and is jumping early on that reality. Edited January 11, 2018 by DarkHorseWaits-NoMore usual typo's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 hours ago, ccc said: No. Not too deep for me. You were wrong. Incorrect. Quoting incorrect details. Etc etc.. Don't say that the first vote was 'X' when in fact it was not. And then don't come back and try to condescend the person who point this out to you. Its not very becoming. Makes you look rather foolish. As for the rest of it. The majority voted to leave the EU. They did not vote to leave the EU and we can have another vote in a wee while as we see how its coming along. And then another one a wee bit later if its require. And hey - why not - maybe another one if we need it. As for all this constant nonsense that people didn't know what they were voting for. Its so condescending and really quite shameful. We voted to leave the EU. It was all made very clear. We voted to leave the EU and all that entails. Al the parties were very clear on this. Not one of them stated you are voting to leave the EU - but we are looking to keep a bit of x and maybe sort out a bit of Y. It was leave the EU full stop. 'Hard' Brexit ? Funny - that wasn't ever mentioned even once pre the vote. Then all of a sudden after the vote this phrase appears from nowhere. In an attempt to convince people that they hadn't really voted for what they wanted. Everyone that voted for Brexit - by default - voted for a 'hard' Brexit. Because that was all that was on offer. It was there - on the ballot paper - IN BLACK AND WHITE. Clearly it was, which is why you resorted to meaningless bluster, all of what I posted is correct. One of the problems with referendums is people rarely answer the question on the ballot paper the use it to express dissatisfaction with a whole range of things. There is no evidence that there is a majority for any specific type of Brexit. Anyway if you want to be pedantically over literal, it was an ADVISORY REFERENDUM that carried no more legal weight than a straw poll of the people you met in your Thai boozer. Perhaps the second one could be a real binding one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Canal Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 35 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Clearly it was, which is why you resorted to meaningless bluster, all of what I posted is correct. One of the problems with referendums is people rarely answer the question on the ballot paper the use it to express dissatisfaction with a whole range of things. There is no evidence that there is a majority for any specific type of Brexit. Anyway if you want to be pedantically over literal, it was an ADVISORY REFERENDUM that carried no more legal weight than a straw poll of the people you met in your Thai boozer. Perhaps the second one could be a real binding one. The interesting bit from about 15:50 to 19:00ish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said: Clearly it was, which is why you resorted to meaningless bluster, all of what I posted is correct. One of the problems with referendums is people rarely answer the question on the ballot paper the use it to express dissatisfaction with a whole range of things. There is no evidence that there is a majority for any specific type of Brexit. Anyway if you want to be pedantically over literal, it was an ADVISORY REFERENDUM that carried no more legal weight than a straw poll of the people you met in your Thai boozer. Perhaps the second one could be a real binding one. Now you're comparing a UK referendum with a few folk chatting in a boozer. Seriously - have a word with yourself. As for the bit in bold italics. I'm lost for words. How can you actually type that and not piss yourself laughing ? So the referendum isn't evidence ? Really ? Seriously ? Incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 49 minutes ago, Far Canal said: The interesting bit from about 15:50 to 19:00ish. Yes. The idea that people didn't know what they were voting for has been completely fabricated since the vote occurred. There was no mention of it before. Nothing. It's pant wetting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca13 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Futuroid said: The NHS could really use that £350m a week extra right now. As it is, Brexit is costing us an EXTRA £350m a week already. Sheesh! https://www.ft.com/content/e3b29230-db5f-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482 What a load of bullox.. the economy is crap because of immigration not because we don’t have enough of it.. slave labour and stagnant wages only benefit the elites.. That’s why 15 BTL properties, financed by big business Tony Blair wants it stopped.. more slaves, more poverty, worse living standards.. he loves it.. pay a low life like Blair enough money, put your hand your his bum and move his lips! Edited January 11, 2018 by macca13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 9 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: But it's not football is it: First referendum = do you support "the idea of Brexit Second referendum = do you support the reality of Brexit 1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said: Clearly it was, which is why you resorted to meaningless bluster, all of what I posted is correct. Nope. You made the above up. Completely incorrect. That's not the referendum. It was nothing to do with "an idea". It was a decision. Stop making stuff up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca13 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) We import 65% of our food, we have killed 70% of our pollinating insects.. we import 500’000 people every year.. only a matter of time before we have food shortages.. Edited January 11, 2018 by macca13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 8 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: Sorry if it all a bit deep for you, but to put it more simply: The first referendum asked a simple question would you like to leave the EU, to which 52% replied yes. This 52% was comprised of 1/ I hate the EU and just want to get out 2/ I really don't like the EU and will accept a hard Brexit 3/ I don't much like the EU and will Leave if we get a soft Brexit 4/ Don't care one way or the other but think we can get a "have cake and eat it deal" and be better off 5/ I want the NHS to get the promised £350m a week The sensible time for the second referendum would be after the deal is agreed in early 2019, but before A50 times out. We could also give the EU the challenge of giving the UK an improved deal to stay in. Then we can see if there is a majority for the Brexit that is actually on offer. If we carry on the current path the likelihood is that the country will Leave on a Hard Brexit deal that only around 20% of the country wold have voted for. Currently it looks like the options are whatever deal the government comes up with or if parliament votes against it it’s WTO. While on the face of it that seems insane - and there are Brexiters genuinely stupid enough to be happy with those options - logically what other stance could the government offer the EU ? If they tell the EU ‘give us a shit deal and we’re back’, well, they’ll give us a shit deal. If you put to one side the Batshit Brexiters will o’ the sheeple, concern that the government is simply weak and incompetent and frankly the whole sorry mess, surely the best scenario for the UK is to get to point where we have a choice between the best deal in the EU and the best deal out of the EU and a ‘second’* referendum, or debate and vote in parliament for the UK to choose between them. * in reality it would be the first with an actually informed choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca13 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 We will implement what you decide! Unless we don’t like the result.. then it’s best of 2.. Or 3 or 4 until we win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 17 minutes ago, macca13 said: We import 65% of our food, we have killed 70% of our pollinating insects.. we import 500’000 people every year.. only a matter of time before we have food shortages.. Not to mention the water shortage in the SE predicted for this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 31 minutes ago, ccc said: Now you're comparing a UK referendum with a few folk chatting in a boozer. Seriously - have a word with yourself. As for the bit in bold italics. I'm lost for words. How can you actually type that and not piss yourself laughing ? So the referendum isn't evidence ? Really ? Seriously ? Incredible. Legally it carries no more weight is a factual statement. It was advice not a decision, that's another factual statement There is no evidence that there is a majority for any specific type of Brexit. How could there have been when 18 months after the vote the government still doesn't know what sort of Brexit it wants/will get, so it's another factual statement Clearly you are getting a bit upset now that a second referendum is looking likely. But don't worry if you are right Leave will win again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 26 minutes ago, ccc said: Nope. You made the above up. Completely incorrect. That's not the referendum. It was nothing to do with "an idea". It was a decision. Stop making stuff up. Says the man making everything up To repeat it was an advisory referendum. Advisory referendum produce advice not decisions. A binding referendum would have produced a decision, but it wasn't one so it didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Canal Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Second Referendum sounds fine and this could be the only possible question? Leave the EU with the Deal agreed by the Government Leave the EU with no Deal Sounds easy enough to set up doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Canal Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Says the man making everything up To repeat it was an advisory referendum. Advisory referendum produce advice not decisions. A binding referendum would have produced a decision, but it wasn't one so it didn't. I'll narrow it down some more for you. In the video above watch from 16:56 to 17:07. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 18 minutes ago, macca13 said: We will implement what you decide! Unless we don’t like the result.. then it’s best of 2.. Or 3 or 4 until we win! Sounds about right, If they had wanted to be bound by the result they would have held a binding referendum. At some point a room full of very senior people would have discussed whether it should be a binding or advisory referendum, they obviously choose advisory for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Far Canal said: Second Referendum sounds fine and this could be the only possible question? Leave the EU with the Deal agreed by the Government Leave the EU with no Deal Sounds easy enough to set up doesn't it? Not really. There is no such thing as leaving with no deal, so as an idea it falls at the first hurdle. Also doesn't meet Farage's concern that unless there is another in out vote, on the actual Brexit deal on offer, the country will be divided for generations. To give Farage some more credit, by recognising the need to bring the country back together and being prepared to trust the people to make the "right" decision a second time he is showing he has more integrity and balls than the average Leaver. Not for him ccc's denial and meaningless bluster. Edited January 11, 2018 by Confusion of VIs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Quote I do not want a second Brexit referendum, says Nigel Farage Nigel Farage has backtracked on his suggestion that he could back a second referendum on European Union membership. Writing for the Telegraph, Mr Farage said: “To be clear, I do not want a second referendum, but I fear one may be forced upon the country by Parliament. That is how deep my distrust is for career politicians. “This poses a big question for Leavers. Do we stick with the view that the result will stand or acknowledge the fact that we face this potential threat?” dailyecho It was enough excitement for today, Mr Farage do not want a second Brexit referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 14 minutes ago, Far Canal said: I'll narrow it down some more for you. In the video above watch from 16:56 to 17:07. Do you take everything Cameron said as gospel, somehow I doubt it. How many other times did Cameron not follow through on promises he made, in this case if he really meant what he said it would have been a binding referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 25 minutes ago, rollover said: It was enough excitement for today, Mr Farage do not want a second Brexit referendum. Oh dear, he must have got his words all muddled up or maybe they didn't mean what he said. Come to think of it that does remind me of someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Snap ComRes poll held after Farage's comments, shows support for Remain now at 55%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenpig Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 42 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Sounds about right, If they had wanted to be bound by the result they would have held a binding referendum. That distinction doesn't exist. Quote Referendums in the United Kingdom are very occasionally held at a national, regional or local level. National referendums can be permitted by an Act of Parliament and regulated though the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000, but they are by tradition extremely rare due to the principle of parliamentary sovereignty meaning that they cannot be constitutionally binding on either the Government or Parliament, although they usually have a persuasive political effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_Kingdom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Steppenpig said: That distinction doesn't exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_Kingdom Oh yes it does. The wiki article is misleading in that, it doesn't properly describe link between a referendum result and the Act that authorised the referendum. The referendum on the alternative vote in 2011 was binding. It was binding because the Act that contained it said so, describing what would be implemented in the event of a Yes vote. This Act that set up the EU referendum contained no reference to what should be done in the event of a Yes or No vote so in legal terms it was just a large expensive opinion poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, ccc said: Yes. The idea that people didn't know what they were voting for has been completely fabricated since the vote occurred. There was no mention of it before. Nothing. It's pant wetting. So where did we vote to put the customs border with Ireland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, rollover said: It was enough excitement for today, Mr Farage do not want a second Brexit referendum. If ‘the people’ want to vote to stay in the EU then who exactly is forcing who in that situation ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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