Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[ccc]

2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Some detail  - you have got everything wrong.

Now that FoM is guaranteed for ever for anyone who makes it here by March 19 - When are those millions of new EE migrants you predicted going to turn up.  

 

FoM is guaranteed forever ? Really ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42277040

It looks like what most expected has now been agreed. Personally I wouldn't have been so generous but this is hardly new - is it ?

And unlike what many on here have been saying for ages - shock horror - its going to be reciprocated for any UK citizens within the EU. Because most UK citizens abroad add to their economy rather than take from it. Again - I would have been a bit more hard line but this was always the most likely outcome.

As for the masses of EE migrants ? We will have to wait and see the details of what has been agreed. If they put a simple date on it there will be an almighty last minute rush IMO. Its human nature. Nothing more - nothing less. I am assuming there will be checks and evidence required of living in aplace for x period of time on both sides of this agreement. That would be common sense. If its just a ' As long as you are here on day x' then that will lead to mayhem.

I doubt very much they are that stupid. Maybe

 

With regard to EU citizens' rights, Mrs May said the agreement would guarantee the rights of three million EU citizens in the UK.

Their rights would "enshrined in UK law and enforced by British courts".

The rights of UK citizens living in the EU will also remain the same and the administration procedure for those concerned will be "cheap and simple", Mr Juncker added.

[Bruce Banner]

"Brexit means Brexit, but in the way we want it, not the way you voted for"  

[winkie]

 

[Bruce Banner]

The way this fiasco is heading, I think we should have a second referendum on whether or not to accept the final negotiated terms.

[Far Canal]

26 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

The way this fiasco is heading, I think we should have a second referendum on whether or not to accept the final negotiated terms.

They wouldn't be that stupid surely?

"This deal or no deal" to the public in a referendum.

 

We'd save ourselves £50billion quid.

[ccc]

57 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

"Brexit means Brexit, but in the way we want it, not the way you voted for"  

Such is life. Its not going to end up exactly the way I want it - but I am pragmatic enough to realise the chances of that were always slim. Its an improvement on what we have now IMO - so bring it on.

28 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

The way this fiasco is heading, I think we should have a second referendum on whether or not to accept the final negotiated terms.

Yep - lets just have weekly 'Once in a generation' referendum.

[tomandlu]

44 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

The way this fiasco is heading, I think we should have a second referendum on whether or not to accept the final negotiated terms.

The trouble is it would need to be a three-option vote: Accept, Reject and Leave, Reject and Stay - and I can't realistically see how to organise that fairly.

[ccc]

8 minutes ago, fru-gal said:

How is it an improvement?

I'm not going around in circles on this one again.

[Peter Hun]

1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said:

"Brexit means Brexit, but in the way we want it, not the way you voted for"  

You voted to leave the EU, not the single market, customs union or a limit on FoM.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Remember Michael Bloomberg's statement a couple of weeks ago when he opened Bloombergs new +£1bn European headquarters, "if we had known the UK was going to leave the EU we probably wouldn't have built it in London"  

Bloomberg seems a bit confused. Maybe it's his age:

 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/24/michael-bloomberg-brexit-is-stupidest-thing-any-country-has-done-besides-trump

Quote

“We are opening a brand new European headquarters in London – two big, expensive buildings. Would I have done it if I knew they were going to drop out? I’ve had some thoughts that maybe I wouldn’t have, but we are there, we are going to be very happy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41980919

Quote

Asked on BBC Radio 4's Today programme if he would have gone ahead with the major development had be known about the Brexit decision, Mr Bloomberg said: "There's just no question in my mind ... [we] absolutely would have because London is always going to be the financial centre of Europe for the foreseeable future."

 

[knock out johnny]

[knock out johnny]

 

[HairyOb1]

It's the Henry Ford Brexit, any colour it likes as long as it's blue with gold stars.

It's acutely hilarious how the EU must see us all now.  Farage has it right: we've capitulated at every, single stage and we've only just ended the beginning!

Can't see any of this working out to be honest, I think it has to signal the end of Brexit, any brexit we've been told of.  Interesting what Sturgeon said too: in any future discussion on Scottish independence, the Government cannot say one of the problems would be a hard border twixt Scotland and England.

[spyguy]

25 minutes ago, highYield said:

Bloomberg seems a bit confused. Maybe it's his age:

 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/24/michael-bloomberg-brexit-is-stupidest-thing-any-country-has-done-besides-trump

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41980919

 

[I voted Remain]

If youve ever tried running a business in any other European country - bar Nlands + Sweden - youd know why.

Its either impossible to attract a global workforce - Germany, where language and stuff like reams of rules and restrictions of shopping hours make it impossible.

Or the state taxes and regulates everything  - France, Belgium.

Or the state is so corrupt and unresponsive - pretty move all the Med countries.

To be honest, some states in th Us are not far off Germany.

 

[PerfectCircle]

The whole thing was doomed from the beginning, I have no idea what people were expecting when leaving the biggest trading bloc in the world. I guess they got sold by Brexit politicians who certainly nailed their rhetoric but became a lot quieter when reality caught up. Border control, trade agreement, regulatory law, that's a hell of a task for a country so divided in the first place.  

[tomandlu]

4 minutes ago, PerfectCircle said:

The whole thing was doomed from the beginning, I have no idea what people were expecting when leaving the biggest trading bloc in the world. I guess they got sold by Brexit politicians who certainly nailed their rhetoric but became a lot quieter when reality caught up. Border control, trade agreement, regulatory law, that's a hell of a task for a country so divided in the first place.  

I think it was certainly doomed if that means 'controlled and organised.' The future will be what it will be, and I suspect that in ten years time, leave or stay, we'll be wondering what all the fuss was about.

[Riedquat]

6 minutes ago, PerfectCircle said:

The whole thing was doomed from the beginning, I have no idea what people were expecting when leaving the biggest trading bloc in the world.

To leave a control-freakish, unaccountable, centralising, heading in a federal direction, far too political organisation. It's a pity that that couldn't be done without leaving the trading bloc too, but hey ho.

[spyguy]

16 minutes ago, PerfectCircle said:

The whole thing was doomed from the beginning, I have no idea what people were expecting when leaving the biggest trading bloc in the world. I guess they got sold by Brexit politicians who certainly nailed their rhetoric but became a lot quieter when reality caught up. Border control, trade agreement, regulatory law, that's a hell of a task for a country so divided in the first place.  

[I voted remain]

There's no point talkign about trade, borders and the like when the average Brit just goes Spain (most go to cheaper, non Euro destinations now).

The number of Brits working i nthe private , exporting sector is tiny. There's more people on scam tax credits than there are working in companies that export.

As far as largest trading bloc .... Sort of. We will probably have less preference terms but hardly closed off.

[Confusion of VIs]

1 hour ago, Far Canal said:

They wouldn't be that stupid surely?

"This deal or no deal" to the public in a referendum.

 

We'd save ourselves £50billion quid.

No we wouldn't, we have given assurances that the £40-50bn will be paid whether or not there is a deal. It was just the price for the EU agreeing to talk about a trade deal.

 

[Confusion of VIs]

1 hour ago, highYield said:

Bloomberg seems a bit confused. Maybe it's his age:

 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/24/michael-bloomberg-brexit-is-stupidest-thing-any-country-has-done-besides-trump

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41980919

Why do you think those two statements mean he is confused?

Probably a bit p1ssed off that he has built the shiny new £1bn headquarters in the wrong place but as it's there he needs to put a brave face on it.  

[GrizzlyDave]

3 hours ago, IMHAL said:

So, it sounds like there will be no change except for a few little things such as.

We lose our rebate, we pay extra for staying in the club, we don't get to make any rules and we have no say in the rules that are made by the EU. Oh and we lose infuence on the world stage and we create more uncertainty for businesses during our N year implementation plan etc etc etc.....

Brexiteers must be over the moon with such a fine result. Or as Oliver Hardy famously said 'thats another fine mess you got us into'

And we don’t become a region of a super nation state called the United States of Europe...

[Far Canal]

37 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

No we wouldn't, we have given assurances that the £40-50bn will be paid whether or not there is a deal. It was just the price for the EU agreeing to talk about a trade deal.

 

“Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed” I've heard the appeaser say a few times, havn't you?

 

I don't get what part of the electorate she is trying to please with this "deal"? I guess she just wants to get to trade talks then fight it out for real.

Anyway, how does this affect houseprices?

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Why do you think those two statements mean he is confused?

Probably a bit p1ssed off that he has built the shiny new £1bn headquarters in the wrong place but as it's there he needs to put a brave face on it.  

Seems a long way from your quote of him saying "if we had known the UK was going to leave the EU we probably wouldn't have built it in London"  - do you have a link please? - perhaps his statements aren't so contradictory in context.

[Confusion of VIs]

1 minute ago, Far Canal said:

“Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed” I've heard the appeaser say a few times, havn't you?

 

I don't get what part of the electorate she is trying to please with this "deal"? I guess she just wants to get to trade talks then fight it out for real.

Anyway, how does this affect houseprices?

I see you are out to prove the saying a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

The first "battle" Davis lost (on day one without even a fight) was the EU's insistence that this be a two phase negotiation.

Phase one is now complete and everything is agreed. The signed formal agreement includes the methodology for how we will work out our divorce bill (and will produce a bill of around £45bn) that is not subject to any deal on trade.

It also includes:

- a commitment that if no trade deal is reached we will maintain regulatory alignment with the EU (so the trade talks are now a no lose scenario for the EU) 

- exceptionally generous EU citizen rights (actually better than if we had stayed in on Cameron's deal) that are retained in perpetuity for anyone who is living here up to the day we leave

-  the ECoJ being the competent court for resolving issues for 8 years after we leave the EU

All of these are now done deals and no doubt will drive the Brexiters nuts when they get heads around it. Still too late to complain now.  

 

[jonb2]

1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

To leave a control-freakish, unaccountable, centralising, heading in a federal direction, far too political organisation. It's a pity that that couldn't be done without leaving the trading bloc too, but hey ho.

I don't like the Tories either RQ

Edited December 8, 2017 by jonb2