Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[slawek]

German and French just want the UK to pay the bill and leave. They don't care about free trading with the UK and they are against any special treatment of the UK.

[Riedquat]

27 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

1) Toast - I hope your vision come true. I remember in the 70s when you could still be your own engineering man without the need of a corporation or even a team. I was an analogue electronics  engineer and could bash out all sorts of projects on my own. A happy little mad scientist. But you can't now. You have the Chinese, Google, Apple, Facebook all eating people  with a wasting distraction disease that has the side-effect of bringing out the worst of all life's traits. Hate builds nothing but sh*t. Well done Zuch. Consumerism makes people spend their way into debt as their lives are purposely coralled this way - well done Google, Apple and Amazon.

ARM itself started off as an in-house project by a not particularly huge company, really couldn't see that happening nowdays. Some of that is the inevitable result of technological change and maturity - it gets so complicated that it simply isn't possible to come up with anything new without huge resources because the simple has already been done. Wonder how much is simply down the the large scale nature of the world though - that foul "efficiency" raising its ugly head again.

[ZeroSumGame]

Britain wants to change the rules of engagement with the EU. As many have alluded in hundreds of posts above, the Irish border is proving to be a difficult one for the British.

Cake, Eat it. Get somebody else to pay. Demand a refund as it wasn't the cake you first thought it to be.

Quote

Brexit: Davis urges Brussels rethink on trade and withdrawal talks at same time

Guardian

Oh dear, back to square one. Will the EU27 accommodate?  Why would they - they've all agreed a line of approach.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, slawek said:

German and French just want the UK to pay the bill and leave. They don't care about free trading with the UK and they are against any special treatment of the UK.

That's from the UK based YouGov company  But that's pretty irrelevant.

It's surprising that the Germans aren't relatively worried about selling their goods to the UK without any tariffs - but with our large deficit in goods with them, maybe it'll end up a good thing. Fewer shiny new BMWs, Audis, VWs on the UK roads won't be the end of the world. Fewer Peugots, Renaults & Citroens even less so!

Tariffs would force the UK to be more inventive, which we did OK at in the industrial revolution. 3D printers are impressive today - in a few decades they'll be even more so. An impetus to make more stuff internally might combine well with the technologies that are just around the corner.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Riedquat said:

ARM itself started off as an in-house project by a not particularly huge company, really couldn't see that happening nowdays. Some of that is the inevitable result of technological change and maturity - it gets so complicated that it simply isn't possible to come up with anything new without huge resources because the simple has already been done. Wonder how much is simply down the the large scale nature of the world though - that foul "efficiency" raising its ugly head again.

Possible? How about e.g. Bitcoin?

[ExiledMatty]

As a nation I don't think we market our businesses and products very well. This is one thing the Yanks are very good at. 

Maybe a harder Brexit will make us more competitive in the global marketplace, because we won't have any choice.

[Futuroid]

7 hours ago, highYield said:

Possible? How about e.g. Bitcoin?

Bitcoin would not have been a success had it been marketed by a company.

[Peter Hun]

7 hours ago, highYield said:

3D printers are impressive today - in a few decades they'll be even more so. An impetus to make more stuff internally might combine well with the technologies that are just around the corner.

Good to now everything will be fine when 90% of us are dead

[Peter Hun]

10 hours ago, slawek said:

German and French just want the UK to pay the bill and leave. They don't care about free trading with the UK and they are against any special treatment of the UK.

Funny how the Brixiters cannot get it into their head that Brexit means Brexit and want to hold onto the EU like a lifejacket.

[GrizzlyDave]

11 hours ago, slawek said:

German and French just want the UK to pay the bill and leave. They don't care about free trading with the UK and they are against any special treatment of the UK.

Why Germany and France, and not EU27?

I thought there was a singular view on brexit with the EU27?

[Riedquat]

9 hours ago, highYield said:

Possible? How about e.g. Bitcoin?

No idea, I've never got my head around Bitcoin.

[Riedquat]

9 hours ago, highYield said:

Tariffs would force the UK to be more inventive, which we did OK at in the industrial revolution. 3D printers are impressive today - in a few decades they'll be even more so. An impetus to make more stuff internally might combine well with the technologies that are just around the corner.

They're impressive for certain things but certainly aren't the answer to every bit of manufacturing that they keep getting painted as, and whilst that might change a bit a bit is what it'll remain. Very small production runs, prototypes, that sort of thing. There's no sign at all that they'll have much impact on large scale production beyond the prototype level. The reality of 3D printers is that they're a new tool, not a revolution.

[kzb]

11 hours ago, ZeroSumGame said:

Britain wants to change the rules of engagement with the EU. As many have alluded in hundreds of posts above, the Irish border is proving to be a difficult one for the British.

Cake, Eat it. Get somebody else to pay. Demand a refund as it wasn't the cake you first thought it to be.

Guardian

Oh dear, back to square one. Will the EU27 accommodate?  Why would they - they've all agreed a line of approach.

 

 ....the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.

That's what it says in Article 50.

Is it too much to expect them to abide by the treaty?

 

 

 

[kzb]

7 hours ago, ExiledMatty said:

As a nation I don't think we market our businesses and products very well. This is one thing the Yanks are very good at. 

Maybe a harder Brexit will make us more competitive in the global marketplace, because we won't have any choice.

The trade imbalance is reportedly £68 billion p.a.  That's £1,300 million per week (roughly £350 million every two days).

When you think about it, It's amazing that we all think this situation has to be preserved at all costs.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Peter Hun said:

Good to now everything will be fine when 90% of us are dead

IMO, you've got to think (guess) in terms of generations when voting on something like Brexit. If it happens, Brexit is bad for me personally - but my guess is that it will be good for the UK in the long term - primarily by making our politicians responsible.

15 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

They're impressive for certain things but certainly aren't the answer to every bit of manufacturing that they keep getting painted as, and whilst that might change a bit a bit is what it'll remain. Very small production runs, prototypes, that sort of thing. There's no sign at all that they'll have much impact on large scale production beyond the prototype level. The reality of 3D printers is that they're a new tool, not a revolution.

It's one example of the way things are moving. Went to the dentists for a crown a few weeks ago - he built up a 3d image of the stump, then milled the crown in his basement on his CNC machine in 15 minutes. Electric cars have far fewer components than ICE ones. My guess is that future trade won't be as much about shipping containers around the world - especially as globalisation continually lessens the potential for global wage arbitrage.

[jonb2]

16 minutes ago, kzb said:

The trade imbalance is reportedly £68 billion p.a.  That's £1,300 million per week (roughly £350 million every two days).

When you think about it, It's amazing that we all think this situation has to be preserved at all costs.

It won't be.

We will be too busy foraging and theiving. The lottery won't be for money - but work. Our kids will be primed for leaving the country like Ireland was. The main jobs will be reparing the security systems of gated communities. Chain gangs will return. Voluntary euthanasia will be a thing - you'll be able to watch old Ealing comedies while they inject the (expensive) imported death jab from the US prisons. After a while, they will realise it's simply cheaper to hang people.

But in 200 years, it will be different - all unicorns and rainbows. So nothing to worry about.

[kzb]

26 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

It won't be.

We will be too busy foraging and theiving. The lottery won't be for money - but work. Our kids will be primed for leaving the country like Ireland was. The main jobs will be reparing the security systems of gated communities. Chain gangs will return. Voluntary euthanasia will be a thing - you'll be able to watch old Ealing comedies while they inject the (expensive) imported death jab from the US prisons. After a while, they will realise it's simply cheaper to hang people.

But in 200 years, it will be different - all unicorns and rainbows. So nothing to worry about.

It's hardly answering my point though is it?

TV item about an elderly couple in the Netherlands who have been euthanized "together".   Neither wanted to live without the other.  Depending on your outlook this is either heartwarming or disturbing.

It was reported that, shortly in the Netherlands, anyone over the age of 75 will  have the right to be euthanized.  I think that is definitely on the side of disturbing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/14/world/europe/dutch-law-would-allow-euthanasia-for-healthy-elderly-people.html

Now, some critics say the country has gone too far with a proposed law that would allow people who are not suffering from a medical condition to seek assisted suicide if they feel they have “completed life.” Proponents of the law counter that limiting assisted death to patients with terminal illnesses is no longer enough, and that older people have the right to end their lives with dignity, and when they so choose.

And, BTW, the death jab in US prisons was a British product.  They withdrew the licence for its use in the death penalty, so US prisons are struggling to carry out the sentences.

Edited August 21, 2017 by kzb

[jonb2]

49 minutes ago, kzb said:

The trade imbalance is reportedly £68 billion p.a.  That's £1,300 million per week (roughly £350 million every two days).

When you think about it, It's amazing that we all think this situation has to be preserved at all costs.

Alright - to answer your point KZB.

To reduce the trade inbalance, in simple terms - you have to:

1) Reduce demand - Brexit will do this no problem

2) Make the stuff here that's imported to compensate -  IOW, support building more things for home and export

1 - it depends on how much of those imports are 'converted'. IOW, imported as raw materials essential for our outputs. I don't know the ratio, but I imagine the cr*p that comes in from China is far more of the consumption type than the 'converted'. The first thing I would do is ban Amazon. This alone would reduce consumerism (AKA useless consumption)

2 - fat chance until the system here changes. Could be a 20 years. Could be 200 years.

 

 

[jonb2]

15 minutes ago, kzb said:

And, BTW, the death jab in US prisons was a British product.  They withdrew the licence for its use in the death penalty, so US prisons are struggling to carry out the sentences.

Must have had a few batches left over from our shipment to Saudi then :-)

[kzb]

19 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Alright - to answer your point KZB.

To reduce the trade inbalance, in simple terms - you have to:

1) Reduce demand - Brexit will do this no problem

2) Make the stuff here that's imported to compensate -  IOW, support building more things for home and export

1 - it depends on how much of those imports are 'converted'. IOW, imported as raw materials essential for our outputs. I don't know the ratio, but I imagine the cr*p that comes in from China is far more of the consumption type than the 'converted'. The first thing I would do is ban Amazon. This alone would reduce consumerism (AKA useless consumption)

2 - fat chance until the system here changes. Could be a 20 years. Could be 200 years.

 

 

I've not even got to the stage of asking how it could be done.  I'm simply asking why preserving the status quo on trade with the EU is seen as desirable.  Not just desirable but life and death.

There's £350 million every two days trade imbalance.  As a thick left-behind person I have to ask the Remainers about the sustainability of this situation.  Why is preserving this life and death?

 

[kzb]

26 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Must have had a few batches left over from our shipment to Saudi then :-)

I don't think lethal injection is part of their judicial system, I think they prefer other methods.  Anyhow that issue was an aside and I don't know the details. 

It has crossed my mind however, that if voluntary euthanasia for healthy 75-year olds comes about in the Netherlands, presumably all EU citizens can "benefit" from this measure ?

[Byron]

2 hours ago, jonb2 said:

Alright - to answer your point KZB.

To reduce the trade inbalance, in simple terms - you have to:

1) Reduce demand - Brexit will do this no problem

2) Make the stuff here that's imported to compensate -  IOW, support building more things for home and export

1 - it depends on how much of those imports are 'converted'. IOW, imported as raw materials essential for our outputs. I don't know the ratio, but I imagine the cr*p that comes in from China is far more of the consumption type than the 'converted'. The first thing I would do is ban Amazon. This alone would reduce consumerism (AKA useless consumption)

2 - fat chance until the system here changes. Could be a 20 years. Could be 200 years.

 

 

What do you mean by IOW?

Google says Isle of Wight.

[jonb2]

B

4 minutes ago, Byron said:

What do you mean by IOW?

Google says Isle of Wight.

IOW = in other words.

Perhaps we could move The City to the IOW as well :-)

[jonb2]

1 hour ago, kzb said:

It has crossed my mind however, that if voluntary euthanasia for healthy 75-year olds comes about in the Netherlands, presumably all EU citizens can "benefit" from this measure ?

Yeah, we should think about this.

I can see new legislation where the new retirement age is 70, which coincidently corresponds to the voluntary age for euthanasia.

[kzb]

Future customs arrangements - a future partnership paper

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/future-customs-arrangements-a-future-partnership-paper

Some encouraging statements in here:

"We, like many of our partners, believe that providing a safety net for domestic businesses if they suffer harm as a result of unfair trading practices is an important part of supporting the free trade agenda. "

"The Government will also ensure that decisions about how public services including the NHS are delivered for UK citizens, are made by UK governments and not by our trade partners.."