Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

1 minute ago, jonb2 said:

We'll get even more of the same Greg - but worse. The Tories or Corbyn - really, REALLY???

Don't kid yourself like the other 17 million (mind you they were sold a pup by convincing lies).

Nothing is going to change. It's all b*ll*cks.

The very hardest Brexit we can achieve is the ONLY way to solve this clusterfrack.

 Brexit is the clusterfrack!

[jonb2]

12 hours ago, thehowler said:

I think you're underestimating the revolutionary force of Brexit - it was utterly unexpected, went against all establishment guidance and expectations, it brought down the government players - end of Cameron and Osborne - could well destroy the Tory party and divide and tear asunder Labour, as the surviving moderates struggle to resist Corbyn's disinterest in any European future. There's a lot of talk on here about how the Brexit choice is the most disastrous move for the nation in living memory, I think it's fair to describe that as revolutionary.

I agree that as yet there is nobody apparent to guide us out of this mess. In my view, May is acting like a public servant caretaker. I expect the internecine squabbles in October or late-2020 to sweep away a lot of the old players. You can't say Brexit isn't prompting change.

As for the EU , the only mission they have is survival.

New Coke revolution.

Cameron and Osborne gone. Boris, Gove, Davies, Fox, Redmond, Hunt, May etc?

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose .

Edited April 15, 2018 by jonb2

[GregBowman]

1 hour ago, jonb2 said:

We'll get even more of the same Greg - but worse. The Tories or Corbyn - really, REALLY???

Don't kid yourself like the other 17 million (mind you they were sold a pup by convincing lies).

Nothing is going to change. It's all b*ll*cks.

The very hardest Brexit we can achieve is the ONLY way to solve this clusterfrack.

Good point have to agree

[pig]

 

8 hours ago, GregBowman said:

As @thehowler says we got revolution big style - oh it’s the wrong type. Should of thought about that when all the remainers wanted more of the same and made a concerted effort to change an undemocratic sprawling mess and present a plan to continue that change to the electorate 

It is a mess now - but surely that’s how all revolutions start ?

Oh ‘wrong type’.

You mean the keep it the same/turn the clock back type of ‘revolution’?

[dryrot]

3 hours ago, jonb2 said:

Exactly.

Thanks IMHAL - leavers need reminding all the time. But, but, but look at Greece. Think about Hungary. Nazis are coming back in Germany. NOTHING compared to what's going on in the City of London.

Jesus wept.

Look at Greece? Greece has been destroyed by your wonderful EU/Euro! Hungary's politics are a direct result of EU immigration policies. EU policies have spurred a sharp drift to the right in almost every election in EU countrues in the past year. And you STILL think the EU is fantastic!

[ccc]

5 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Brexit is going down in the Lords

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-house-of-lords-customs-union-theresa-may-a8304791.html

And there is a massive march today.

The not so secret plan to kill Brexit is that the process is dragged out beyond 2022 and then a new Government can either cancel Art.50 or rejoin along with the Euro.

Happy days, we can all have Euros in our pockets by 2025!

Please come back to planet Earth 

[ccc]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43774200

What an utter see you next Tuesday. 

"Emotion" 

These luvvy snowflakes really should know their place. They are paid to say things that are not true. 

Perfect politicians really. 

[thehowler]

5 hours ago, ZeroSumGame said:

I'm not sure London is lost. It voted REMAIN as you know. I'm not sure it will be leaving.

Are you expecting London to declare independence from the UK? I'd say that's unlikely.

[jonb2]

2 hours ago, dryrot said:

Look at Greece? Greece has been destroyed by your wonderful EU/Euro! Hungary's politics are a direct result of EU immigration policies. EU policies have spurred a sharp drift to the right in almost every election in EU countrues in the past year. And you STILL think the EU is fantastic!

No I don't think the EU is fantastic dryrot. Perhaps if you'd paid attention you will see I have admitted it has problems.

My point is that it's still 100x better than the politicians we have here and the fact that the UK is the epicentre of all major financial criminality.

What's your problem? Don't you know I support a hard Brexit?

[Habeas Domus]

8 hours ago, ccc said:

We have been in the EU for almost all that time....

It's basic. Many people like myself have chosen to get rid of one of the incompetent, corrupt idiotic layers of government that lord over us.

Nobody has - or ever will - explain to me how that is a bad move. 

Whatever side you are on the logic in making that choice is black and white. It was a good one. 

well put.

Remainers always seem to me like people desperately clinging onto the handrail of the Titanic and pointing out how cold the water is.

[GregBowman]

4 hours ago, pig said:

 

Oh ‘wrong type’.

You mean the keep it the same/turn the clock back type of ‘revolution’?

No I don't. By the way I voted remain. Time travel unless you know otherwise is impossible. the future will have elements of the past but it will also forge a new way. that's the beauty of change. In fact from my observation and I refer to my second sentence it was the remainers who wanted to freeze time. The soft left depicting all leavers as blue collar supporting UKIPer's was deeply flawed and arrogant. Hence the 'wrong' type of change and result.  Change generally if meaningful is chaotic. A concept that many leavers realised and still voted for.

[IMHAL]

2 hours ago, GregBowman said:

No I don't. By the way I voted remain. Time travel unless you know otherwise is impossible. the future will have elements of the past but it will also forge a new way. that's the beauty of change. In fact from my observation and I refer to my second sentence it was the remainers who wanted to freeze time. The soft left depicting all leavers as blue collar supporting UKIPer's was deeply flawed and arrogant. Hence the 'wrong' type of change and result.  Change generally if meaningful is chaotic. A concept that many leavers realised and still voted for.

That sounds made up. What evidence is there to suggest that many leavers realised that the change  would be chaotic? Why is chaotic change more or less meaningful than planned change?

The leaver campaign majored on the notion of free trade deals being simple and the whole process being easy. No one in the leave camp mentioned chaos.

Edited April 15, 2018 by IMHAL

[IMHAL]

2 hours ago, Habeas Domus said:

well put.

Remainers always seem to me like people desperately clinging onto the handrail of the Titanic and pointing out how cold the water is.

I agree, Brexit is very much like the Titanic.

Best not to have sailed on the HMS Brexit in the first place.

Edited April 15, 2018 by IMHAL

[Habeas Domus]

37 minutes ago, IMHAL said:

I agree, Brexit is very much like the Titanic.

Best not to have sailed on the MV European Union in the first place.

FTFY

[GregBowman]

10 hours ago, IMHAL said:

That sounds made up. What evidence is there to suggest that many leavers realised that the change  would be chaotic? Why is chaotic change more or less meaningful than planned change?

The leaver campaign majored on the notion of free trade deals being simple and the whole process being easy. No one in the leave camp mentioned chaos.

Really ? what an omission !???

[Guest]

22 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Brexit is going down in the Lords

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-house-of-lords-customs-union-theresa-may-a8304791.html

And there is a massive march today.

The not so secret plan to kill Brexit is that the process is dragged out beyond 2022 and then a new Government can either cancel Art.50 or rejoin along with the Euro.

Happy days, we can all have Euros in our pockets by 2025!

Apparently about 1,000 people turned up for the "People's Vote" campaign - in (remainer) London! I'd have thought that Patrick Stewart could bring in half that in Star Trek & X Men fans alone, especially after national TV promotion. The 'Stop the War' march was 'massive' - look at how much effect that had.

Both parties in our duopoly are pro Brexit. The undemocratic Lib Dems have collapsed, and may even have their share of the vote further diminished by a new anti Brexit party. Either the Tories or Labour look likely to be in power for the foreseeable future - and both look extremely unlikely to cancel article 50. The main parties' Brexit position is so diametrically opposed to that of the Lib Dems, it's difficult to see either forming a coalition with them, even in the event of a hung parliament.

I find the remainer guess that a hard Brexit would one day result in us rejoining extremely hard to swallow; for 2 main reasons:

* Remainers believe that Leavers are easily led. In the unlikely event that we have a hard Brexit, and that it turns into a very bad thing, our political & propaganda establishment will relentlessly blame the EU, hardening anti EU feeling.

* We chose to leave the EU on our current good terms (vetos, no Euro, some (admittedly dodgy) opt out on future integration). It's difficult to believe that we'd choose to re-enter on bad, even more vassal state, terms.

[IMHAL]

1 hour ago, GregBowman said:

Really ? what an omission !???

Depressingly predictable. Not even able to defend your own words either.

Edited April 16, 2018 by IMHAL

[ccc]

46 minutes ago, highYield said:

Apparently about 1,000 people turned up for the "People's Vote" campaign - in (remainer) London! I'd have thought that Patrick Stewart could bring in half that in Star Trek & X Men fans alone, especially after national TV promotion. The 'Stop the War' march was 'massive' - look at how much effect that had.

Both parties in our duopoly are pro Brexit. The undemocratic Lib Dems have collapsed, and may even have their share of the vote further diminished by a new anti Brexit party. Either the Tories or Labour look likely to be in power for the foreseeable future - and both look extremely unlikely to cancel article 50. The main parties' Brexit position is so diametrically opposed to that of the Lib Dems, it's difficult to see either forming a coalition with them, even in the event of a hung parliament.

I find the remainer guess that a hard Brexit would one day result in us rejoining extremely hard to swallow; for 2 main reasons:

* Remainers believe that Leavers are easily led. In the unlikely event that we have a hard Brexit, and that it turns into a very bad thing, our political & propaganda establishment will relentlessly blame the EU, hardening anti EU feeling.

* We chose to leave the EU on our current good terms (vetos, no Euro, some (admittedly dodgy) opt out on future integration). It's difficult to believe that we'd choose to re-enter on bad, even more vassal state, terms.

Especially considering the EU is likely to be in a worse state than it is now.

[GregBowman]

1 hour ago, IMHAL said:

Depressingly predictable. Not even able to defend your own words either.

Couldn't be a**** so in simple terms for you. Not all 17 million people who voted Brexit were swayed or informed by a high level campaign - James Dyson, Tim Martin and  a host of successful people who have been through and instigated change. Your point is they didn't know it would be chaotic in the short term....really ?

Change of this magnitude is always chaotic and the wise words of a brighter person than you come to mind. Mr Tyson 'Every person has a plan until they get punched in the face' Large change is chaotic - have you ever restructured a division, closed down a business try and planned carefully......I thought not

As for predictable hardly - I voted remain but am defending the intelligence of leavers unlike you. 

You probably haven't seen enough of it or been senior enough to instigate it. Don't worry you will still be able to get cheap EasyJet flights 

Edited April 16, 2018 by GregBowman

[kzb]

2 hours ago, highYield said:

<EDIT>.

* We chose to leave the EU on our current good terms (vetos, no Euro, some (admittedly dodgy) opt out on future integration). It's difficult to believe that we'd choose to re-enter on bad, even more vassal state, terms.

I think this is the plan in certain quarters though.  The idea is that things will be so bad we'll be begging to be let back in under any terms the EU dictate.

It's entirely possible this whole Brexit thing has been planned to achieve this, i.e. make the UK adopt the euro and Schengen, and get rid of the rebate.  We have a Peoples Vote (how did it get called this ????!!!!) to reverse article 50, and the EU say yes of course as long as you join as proper members.

This also demonstrates to the whole world that resistance is futile.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, kzb said:

I think this is the plan in certain quarters though.  The idea is that things will be so bad we'll be begging to be let back in under any terms the EU dictate.

It's entirely possible this whole Brexit thing has been planned to achieve this, i.e. make the UK adopt the euro and Schengen, and get rid of the rebate.  We have a Peoples Vote (how did it get called this ????!!!!) to reverse article 50, and the EU say yes of course as long as you join as proper members.

This also demonstrates to the whole world that resistance is futile.

The "Peoples' Vote" seems pretty laughable, with 1,000 people who could be bothered to turn up (on a Sunday!) and a desultory 4 MPs out of 650.

I don't think that it's possible that Brexit has been planned for us to leave on hard terms, then rejoin on worse terms. That would be an insanely risky plan for the vested interests of everyone involved - with very little benefit to anyone. Could write a long essay debunking that theory, but hopefully It can be essentially disproved with 2 simple facts:

* the establishment were almost unequivocally anti Brexit.

* politicians (from the EU to Westminster) just aren't that competent, or long term thinkers 

 

[OnionTerror]

5 hours ago, highYield said:

Apparently about 1,000 people turned up for the "People's Vote" campaign - in (remainer) London! I'd have thought that Patrick Stewart could bring in half that in Star Trek & X Men fans alone, especially after national TV promotion. The 'Stop the War' march was 'massive' - look at how much effect that had.

Both parties in our duopoly are pro Brexit. The undemocratic Lib Dems have collapsed, and may even have their share of the vote further diminished by a new anti Brexit party. Either the Tories or Labour look likely to be in power for the foreseeable future - and both look extremely unlikely to cancel article 50. The main parties' Brexit position is so diametrically opposed to that of the Lib Dems, it's difficult to see either forming a coalition with them, even in the event of a hung parliament.

I find the remainer guess that a hard Brexit would one day result in us rejoining extremely hard to swallow; for 2 main reasons:

* Remainers believe that Leavers are easily led. In the unlikely event that we have a hard Brexit, and that it turns into a very bad thing, our political & propaganda establishment will relentlessly blame the EU, hardening anti EU feeling.

* We chose to leave the EU on our current good terms (vetos, no Euro, some (admittedly dodgy) opt out on future integration). It's difficult to believe that we'd choose to re-enter on bad, even more vassal state, terms.

Even after a hard Brexit, I don’t believe that we’ll rejoin.

[IMHAL]

3 hours ago, GregBowman said:

Couldn't be a**** so in simple terms for you. Not all 17 million people who voted Brexit were swayed or informed by a high level campaign - James Dyson, Tim Martin and  a host of successful people who have been through and instigated change. Your point is they didn't know it would be chaotic in the short term....really ?

Change of this magnitude is always chaotic and the wise words of a brighter person than you come to mind. Mr Tyson 'Every person has a plan until they get punched in the face' Large change is chaotic - have you ever restructured a division, closed down a business try and planned carefully......I thought not

As for predictable hardly - I voted remain but am defending the intelligence of leavers unlike you. 

You probably haven't seen enough of it or been senior enough to instigate it. Don't worry you will still be able to get cheap EasyJet flights 

You said that many of those voters realised it would be chaotic....you have no evidence to support that.

You say that 'change if it is to be meaningful is chaotic' ....you have no evidence to support that.

Coming back with a little bluster is hardly tantamount to being correct or even convincing. I would have been quite happy  if you had said that it was just your opinion. Instead you seem very defensive and have needed to resort to insults. It must be a sign of your apparent higher intellect.

[kzb]

2 hours ago, highYield said:

The "Peoples' Vote" seems pretty laughable, with 1,000 people who could be bothered to turn up (on a Sunday!) and a desultory 4 MPs out of 650.

I don't think that it's possible that Brexit has been planned for us to leave on hard terms, then rejoin on worse terms. That would be an insanely risky plan for the vested interests of everyone involved - with very little benefit to anyone. Could write a long essay debunking that theory, but hopefully It can be essentially disproved with 2 simple facts:

* the establishment were almost unequivocally anti Brexit.

* politicians (from the EU to Westminster) just aren't that competent, or long term thinkers 

 

I read somewhere that anything starting with  "The Peoples....." is always crap.

I never said it was the politicians behind this plan.

Anyhow let's hope you are right.

 

[kzb]

Apparently, at the port of Bristol, for the last two years, exactly two containers per year have been opened for inspection.  And this was because there was prior intelligence about those containers.