Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[thecrashingisles]

1 minute ago, Richmond said:

Of course the end point of this line of argument is a single world government ruling over everyone. I am torn on whether this would be a good thing or a thing that would result in the 'tyranny of the majority'.

Germany has a federal government, not a single government, as does the US, Australia, Canada, and many other successful places.  It seems to be only the British who do not understand the concept.  Things need to be dealt with at the appropriate level.

[pig]

Just now, Richmond said:

Of course the end point of this line of argument is a single world government ruling over everyone. I am torn on whether this would be a good thing or a thing that would result in the 'tyranny of the majority'.

Not 'government' as such - but 'system'. Could still be tyrannous though.

[HairyOb1]

Just now, satch said:

It's the price of Brexit, it will prove once and for all that the remain people were right which is what the remain people want at the end of the day. Perhaps they should have explained all of this before the referendum. Looks like it will be very bad so at least any remainers can move to the EU if that is their spiritual home. Anyway the government have created 2 million jobs ... or so they say what is 150k (albeit highly paid) when we have politicians of this calibre.

I'm genuinely not reading you at all.

We will be proven right, as we're already being proven right.  

I am still hopeful we can force a vote to stop this madness, but if not, I have both an EU passport and a British one, so I will be protected regardless.

and again, you're missing the point, the 150k jobs aren't well paid, not all of them.  The amount of jobs lost in banking will be relatively small, it's the support jobs to these people that will be lost.  Tale 10000 people out of an area and the whole area suffers as they do not now eat out, drink, get cleaning done, buy magazines, buy food...

You're really missing the point.  

[pig]

1 minute ago, satch said:

Providing it is Tusk and Juncker this would be a good thing .... a very good thing, better than having all these elections, as running the EU is far too important to be left to voters and their representatives.

A very good thing.

Far better that the sheeple be distracted by the EU than focus on how they are being evicerated by their elected politicians.

[HairyOb1]

3 minutes ago, satch said:

Providing it is Tusk and Juncker this would be a good thing .... a very good thing, better than having all these elections, as running the EU is far too important to be left to voters and their representatives.

All you are doing is presenting very illogical straw men.  Genuinely.  You have nothing to say, literally nothing.

Edited June 24, 2017 by HairyOb1

[jonb2]

3 minutes ago, satch said:

 

You forgot about the 2 million jobs that the government have created ... easily replacing the 150k

Two things Satch -

1) How many of them are progressive jobs? IOW worthwhile?

2) How many depend on trinket consumerism?

[HairyOb1]

15 minutes ago, satch said:

If this is the case then there is nothing to fear as there will be a reversal and Tusk's dream will happen ... he's not the only one clearly. Do not worry we will never leave.

You forgot about the 2 million jobs that the government have created ... easily replacing the 150k

Oh my, you genuinely think 2m jobs have been created? No, sorry, you've just got a vast proportion of those 2m people on zero hour contracts and Working Tax Credits.

You do realise if you're working any amount of hours, you're not unemployed, even if it's zero hours, the rest is buffered on tax credits.

Sometimes you brexiteers make me smile.

Edited June 24, 2017 by HairyOb1

[Peter Hun]

4 hours ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

Any concerns that the article does not mention the fate of UK citizens in EU countries?

No, it will be reciprocal. UK citizens will get the EU rights in Europe - i.e. superior  rights to those in the UK.

 

[HairyOb1]

15 minutes ago, satch said:

You say the government and politicians are not being accurate and truthful?? More people are working now than EVER before in the UK, the government and politicians have said so.

Genuinely, you need to walk away from this discussion...

[Sheeple Splinter]

3 hours ago, Futuroid said:

Quite well. Certainly in the case of Lincs and Kent the immigrants will be focussed in one maybe two sectors (agriculture, food production). The immigrants may also live concentrated in a few areas - almost ghetto like.

The majority of the population will therefore not come into day to day contact with them. There is no integration, no interaction. Contrast this with somewhere like London where there are no large employers who are staffed entirely by EE staff. Many people will have a Polish, French or Czech colleague working on their team.

Mind you, after having said all that I lived in East Kent for a few years and being English (but not from Kent) was subject to some funny looks once I started talking. My missus (Scottish) was subject to outright abuse more than once. So maybe some areas just have a predilection for hating "outsiders" - looking at the levels of racist incidents reported in each area would give you a baseline for tolerance of non-locals.

 

Nope, the survey is flawed. A good article about Boston 2014:

Quote

...

“The main reason we left Lithuania was because we wanted to earn quickly,” she recalls. “Our idea was to go here for a couple of years and earn money and go back, but we’re still here. I came from a small village originally and my parents were farmers so I don’t mind hard work.”

Now she and Tomas have a daughter, Gabriella, who will be four next week and is about to start school. “When we go on holiday to Lithuania and it’s time to go back we say ‘we’re going home’. This is our home now.”

A five-minute walk away in the town’s Central Park, Bogoslav Grzyb (below right), 56, is sitting on a bench with two friends demolishing a carrier bag full of super-strength lager. It is lunchtime but the three are already drunk. “My woman tells me to ****** off,” Mr Grzyb says when asked how he came to be homeless. Originally from Poland, he says he struggles to find regular work now and has been sleeping on the street for a week.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/migrants-in-britain-a-decade-on-they-came-they-worked-they-stayed-in-lincolnshire-9275661.html

I voted leave for controlled immigration and would expect that planned infrastructure and services addressed integration. UKGov and LA control to prevent this type of occurrence:

Quote

Police find 40 people crammed into three-bedroom terraced house in raid

Men, women and children were sleeping in every room of the three-bedroom property in Stourbridge, West Midlands, including the kitchen and bathroom

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-find-40-romanian-immigrants-6555040

[HairyOb1]

Just now, satch said:

Are you saying you do not believe or trust the government figures?

No, I am saying you need to walk from herein

[HairyOb1]

2 minutes ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

 

Nope, the survey is flawed. A good article about Boston 2014:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/migrants-in-britain-a-decade-on-they-came-they-worked-they-stayed-in-lincolnshire-9275661.html

I voted leave for controlled immigration and would expect that planned infrastructure and services addressed integration. UKGov and LA control to prevent this type of occurrence:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-find-40-romanian-immigrants-6555040

In 1993, I lived in a house in Hammersmith, 3 bed, with 23 other people.  Cost me £20 a week including tea bags and bread believe it or not.

When you're young, this shit is ok.

[HairyOb1]

Just now, satch said:

why?

Because you're genuinely all over the place

[Sheeple Splinter]

4 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

The EU has already made a much more comprehensive reciprocal offer for them.

Do you mean Associate Citizenship?

[Peter Hun]

5 hours ago, nome said:

I know it's only the Express, but the irony of Deutsche Bank, of all institutions, labelling someone else as ''zombie'' is just hilarious....

 

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/820864/Brexit-talks-deutsche-bank-latest-news-UK-government-zombie

Never mind, the world is coming to an end in October

http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/820635/Planet-X-to-hit-Earth-nibiru-apocalypse-end-of-the-world

[Sheeple Splinter]

4 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

The mistake of the British is their desperate neediness to be seen as the exclusive 'parent' of those countries.  For Australia and New Zealand you could make that case (however irrelevant it is to the modern world), but when people talk like that about the United States you know they're away with the fairies.

Where do you get these notions from?

[HairyOb1]

Just now, satch said:

Simple question do you believe the government and politicians' figures accurate and true or not?

...and you think I'd fall into this?

Politicians lie, I get that, but there's more oversight in the EU than here.

[maverick73]

Just now, HairyOb1 said:

...and you think I'd fall into this?

Politicians lie, I get that, but there's more oversight in the EU than here.

Brexit was just one rich mob fighting another for control. My presumption is the EU was becoming a threat to US dominance, hence the disruption.

The UK was a leverage between the two large blocs... now the UK shot itself in the foot.. neither side actually requires their presence. 

[Sheeple Splinter]

3 hours ago, HairyOb1 said:

For me it's just all starting to go tits up to be honest.  I genuinely think if we ran the vote again, it would be massively different.  We've only just started and the wheels are coming off.

Some posters have argued that the GE, two weeks ago, was a re-run. Lib Dem and SNP Remain ticket did not fare well.

I'm certainly not impressed with the blues efforts either.

[thecrashingisles]

25 minutes ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

Where do you get these notions from?

Analysis of the statements made by Brexiteers.

[maverick73]

18 minutes ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

Some posters have argued that the GE, two weeks ago, was a re-run. Lib Dem and SNP Remain ticket did not fare well.

I'm certainly not impressed with the blues efforts either.

The whole election was a farce... without a true connection.. the public entered into an autopilot mindset. Until they are truly willing to hear the needs of those they represent, these parties will be replaced by those who do.

If Corbyn said he wanted interest rates to be raised to help savers.. he would have hit the mark, with both young and old.. to own a home is every humans desire and the largest single purchase of their lives. It should be positioned along side free education for all. He would have won.. but alias he was too afraid to hit the mark.

[HairyOb1]

10 minutes ago, satch said:

If this is the case then you must fight to get a reversal of the referendum and use the more honest EU politicians to do so. We in the UK really are stupid as we elect bigger liers than the EU as well as wanting to leave the club. The UK is like a seven year old that thinks they know it all but really need EU mummy and daddy. All our leading politicians said it will be a disaster if we leave the EU and we know they are lying so you need to forget them and use the more honest EU politicians to keep us in. I am sure the voters will eventually see sense and we will stay. No one want us to leave the EU apart from a few voters and they should be made to see that they can not be allowed to make decisions of this importance.

Yeah, not getting involved in this buddy.

[OnionTerror]

16 minutes ago, satch said:

If this is the case then you must fight to get a reversal of the referendum and use the more honest EU politicians to do so. We in the UK really are stupid as we elect bigger liers than the EU as well as wanting to leave the club. The UK is like a seven year old that thinks they know it all but really need EU mummy and daddy. All our leading politicians said it will be a disaster if we leave the EU and we know they are lying so you need to forget them and use the more honest EU politicians to keep us in. I am sure the voters will eventually see sense and we will stay. No one want us to leave the EU apart from a few voters and they should be made to see that they can not be allowed to make decisions of this importance.

The pre and post referendum debate has shown up the incompetence that our representatives have...No sensible debate...no sensible plan (most likely because they though that they wouldn't lose)...When the Tories screw it up, they'll be out on their ear for perhaps a generation.  Labour would fare little better.  Too late, when big manufacturing concerns have moved their bases back in the EU.  Anyway, I would hope that it would allow us to reset, and get rid of this horrendous rabble, and get some genuine representation.

[maverick73]

1 minute ago, Dave Beans said:

The pre and post referendum debate has shown up the incompetence that our representatives have...No sensible debate...no sensible plan (most likely because they though that they wouldn't lose)...When the Tories screw it up, they'll be out on their ear for perhaps a generation.  Labour would fare little better.  Too late, when big manufacturing concerns have moved their bases back in the EU.  Anyway, I would hope that it would allow us to reset, and get rid of this horrendous rabble, and get some genuine representation.

This is definitely a leap of faith moment. The UK leaves the EU, it cannot re-join the EFTA, which it created as the freedom of movement amongst EU members still applies. The UK is going to get a raw deal, waste a £100ml in the process, and any opportunity to dig into the island will happen regardless. If we're really that big, walk away. Why dance with wolves?

[OnionTerror]

18 minutes ago, maverick73 said:

This is definitely a leap of faith moment. The UK leaves the EU, it cannot re-join the EFTA, which it created as the freedom of movement amongst EU members still applies. The UK is going to get a raw deal, waste a £100ml in the process, and any opportunity to dig into the island will happen regardless. If we're really that big, walk away. Why dance with wolves?

If/When we reach rock-bottom, people will demand change...

Why cant it rejoin EFTA?

http://smooth-storage.aptoma.no/users/drp-abcnyheter-upload/files/bilder/President_Baudenbacher_Trinity_College_2017.pdf

Under EEA, there's FOM for workers only, not all & sundry...

Edited June 24, 2017 by Dave Beans