Btl Scum Regrouping And On The Offensive. -- Merged

[pipllman]

I am minded to add that even the proposed changes do not totally level the playing field

20% relief is still there and, in fact, that still gives the unincoporated an advantage of the incorporated when corp tax rates fall

[Exiled Canadian]

I am minded to add that even the proposed changes do not totally level the playing field

20% relief is still there and, in fact, that still gives the unincoporated an advantage of the incorporated when corp tax rates fall

That point is sort of hinted at in point ! - but if you want to flesh it out a bit be my guest......

[pipllman]

And, as an ending, as well as in the covering email to Mr Rath, something along these lines perhaps?

"First time buyers win, sensibly financed landlords win, tenants win and the overall risk to the economy posed by highly leveraged BTL is reduced. What is not to like about that?"

[BadAlchemy]

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accounting-legal/108245-buy-let-income-property-held-tenants-common.html

It seems wherever you go these days, you can't help tripping over a whining BTL'er. This one moaning on the contractoruk website ... not sure what it's go to do with contracting matters though.

Have worked alongside several IT contractor colleagues over the last few years bragging about their BTLs so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

Anyway thought I'd share the link here in case anyone's interested.

[Fully Detached]

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accounting-legal/108245-buy-let-income-property-held-tenants-common.html

It seems wherever you go these days, you can't help tripping over a whining BTL'er. This one moaning on the contractoruk website ... not sure what it's go to do with contracting matters though.

Have worked alongside several IT contractor colleagues over the last few years bragging about their BTLs so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

Anyway thought I'd share the link here in case anyone's interested.

Lol - add that to the dividend taxation changes and the removal of travel and subsistence and that particular poster is going to be royally rubber ducked.

[SE10]

Agree, conceptually, but wonder if this is a bit too HPC-centric and detracts from the core message ie that the proposals will not cause any sort of housing crisis or increased rents as BTL lot are bleating

In any case I would think that they have already thought about this as part of deciding on the proposed policy - is one obvious alternative proposal in this space.

I do think Osborne has seen that high housing costs are a looming political issue, so am more confident than at any time previously that they wont want to pursue policies which could boost house prices. But could be wishful thinking obviously, and probably only holds until prices go down by 5% and he starts getting lobbied by construction, banking etc

I was pondering a small change. Say something like "leveling the playing field between first time buyers who are*, sensibly,* constrained by MMR".

I'm being paranoid they might interpret it as a whinge about MMR rather than a desire for a level playing field.

Happy for the hive to ignore the suggestion though

[Pop321]

MMR has been heralded as an absolutely essential constraint to protect individuals from taking on too much debt. It requires the bank to demonstrate they have lent sensibly and avoids complaints and associated compensation costs against those banks.

So a comparison the the unregulated BTL market and those 'poor exposed vulnerable and unprotected' BTL'ers maybe worthwhile. Obviously without the sarcastic description ?

'Inferred advice', 'they let me do it' will be the BTL'ers cry. The banks and government won't want that. And these feckless wonders will absolutely blame (and complain) to everyone and every onbudsman available.

This wants regulating......yesterday.

My first is on the market. OO need only apply.

[Bruce Banner]

MMR has been heralded as an absolutely essential constraint to protect individuals from taking on too much debt. It requires the bank to demonstrate they have lent sensibly and avoids complaints and associated compensation costs against those banks.

So a comparison the the unregulated BTL market and those 'poor exposed vulnerable and unprotected' BTL'ers maybe worthwhile. Obviously without the sarcastic description

'Inferred advice', 'they let me do it' will be the BTL'ers cry. The banks and government won't want that. And these feckless wonders will absolutely blame (and complain) to everyone and every onbudsman available.

This wants regulating......yesterday.

My first is on the market. OO need only apply.

No it doesn't. What needs to happen is for all props and bailouts to be outlawed, a free market would be self regulating.

[bobbo]

While I'm sure there are still a few cowboy lenders round the big boys learnt their lesson during the gfc. I'd be very surprised if hmrc and the lenders walked away with much less than they were owed even in a 30% price collapse. No tears here for people losing their main residence as it was used to secure initial lending.

[Pop321]

I definitely don't want to make you angry Dr B. Not sure those in charge lose much if they self regulate and then it all goes wrong - they just move jobs. But your point is noted and understood. Thx.

Interestingly Skipton Building Society already have a cap of 10 x employees earnings on BTL mortgages. Yorkshire Bank won't lend BTL if > half your income is rental. There are other too and I am sure many will agree the constraints here are not enough but a start of things to come? MEWing definitely will get full scrutiny and even stopped completely.

If all move to these models is will stop daft expansion and the leveraged to refinance. Then the tax change will force some to sell.

Kathy Miller 12/8 14:47 starting the victim and human rights issue again. Maybe we should release a charity record and see if we can help them out?

[Si1]

I definitely don't want to make you angry Dr B. Not sure those in charge lose much if they self regulate and then it all goes wrong - they just move jobs. But your point is noted and understood. Thx.

Interestingly Skipton Building Society already have a cap of 10 x employees earnings on BTL mortgages. Yorkshire Bank won't lend BTL if > half your income is rental. There are other too and I am sure many will agree the constraints here are not enough but a start of things to come? MEWing definitely will get full scrutiny and even stopped completely.

If all move to these models is will stop daft expansion and the leveraged to refinance. Then the tax change will force some to sell.

Kathy Miller 12/8 14:47 starting the victim and human rights issue again. Maybe we should release a charity record and see if we can help them out?

Just replace the words "feed the world" with B.T.L. and leave all the other lyrics the same and there you have it

[mrtickle]

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accounting-legal/108245-buy-let-income-property-held-tenants-common.html

It seems wherever you go these days, you can't help tripping over a whining BTL'er. This one moaning on the contractoruk website ... not sure what it's go to do with contracting matters though.

Have worked alongside several IT contractor colleagues over the last few years bragging about their BTLs so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

Anyway thought I'd share the link here in case anyone's interested.

I loved the initial response...

If you can afford 5 properties you can afford an accountant.........jog on..............

hahaha

[Bland Unsight]

I loved the initial response...

Great stuff.

[XswampyX]

What about in 30 years when everybody retires? If we all live in rented accommodation, then during our retirement there's going to be a massive housing benefit bill to be paid. Where's the money going to come from for that? A landlord tax?

It has to be better that most of us own our properties so we won't need HB and will have the value of our house to pay for our care in old age.

Labour would like nothing better than to have 1/2 the population sucking on it's sagging mammaries, 1/4 in education, 15/64 working in the government and the three people working, paying for it all.....

[Venger]

Snip from Luke at 118 post about a meeting with his MP.

Overall MP sounds warm to their cause. something about expect no U-Turn but perhaps concessions (I hope not).

This bit caught my eye.

He explained quite openly that the Government are strapped for cash. No big scandal, but they are perhaps more strapped than folk realise. They are looking to squeeze from wherever possible (and it’s a bonus if the public back you too), with landlords being a great target.

http://www.property118.com/open-letter-george-freeman-mp-conservative/76353/comment-page-10/#comment-61982

[Si1]

Snip from Luke at 118 post about a meeting with his MP.

Overall MP sounds warm to their cause. something about expect no U-Turn but perhaps concessions (I hope not).

This bit caught my eye.

At the same time the MP didn't offer to raise this in parliament. MA again proving his emotional intelligence is arranging pressure on multiple MPs to move this forward.

[Neverwhere]

Press release apparently sent out from Property 118 yesterday:

PRESS RELEASE

Selling Tenanted Properties

More than one million tenanted properties are likely to change hands over the next five years as a result of restrictions of finance cost relief for individual landlords according to buy-to-let guru Mark Alexander, who has been invited to consult with The Treasury on the matter next week.

Forward thinking letting agents are poised to protect their businesses from disruption by facilitating the sales in return for commission. This will also give them an opportunity to pitch to retain and take on more management from those buying, which will more than likely be retired cash buyers or limited companies.

Earlier this year Mr Alexander launched a portal for landlords and their agents to advertise tenanted property for sale. Unlike other property portals there are no membership fees for agents, Property118 Portal Ltd is monetised by offering premium advertisements at a cost of £11.80 per week. All pricing includes the numbers 118 to in recognition of the Property118 branded discussion forums on which the portal now occupies the home page. The plan is to launch a National TV awareness campaign later this year but Mr Alexander only has a further 38 days to raise the remaining £100,000 of investment from four investors. HMRC have granted advanced approval of SEIS relief which makes investment incredibly tax effective, no CGT on gains and 50% tax relief on investment. However, to comply with Financial Promotions and Collective Investment Regulations he is using the Seedrs crowd funding platform to raise the money, hence the countdown.

ENDS

NOTES FOR EDITORS – Mark Alexander is available for interview and can be contacted on 01603 428 501 or by email mark@property118.com

Edited August 14, 2015 by Neverwhere

[TheCountOfNowhere]

He explained quite openly that the Government are strapped for cash. No big scandal, but they are perhaps more strapped than folk realise

Quite possibly the understatement of the decade.

Still, they were so strapped they took a 10% pay increase.

Do as I say, not as I do

[2buyornot2buy]

Press release apparently sent out from Property 118 yesterday:

This is actually hilarious. Buy-to-let guru Mark Alexander. I can't stop laughing, it's so pathetic.

[giesahoose]

I wish they would stop referring to the change as retrospective, it's not. It's on interest payments going forward.

If you can't get your business to add up under the new tax regime then tough.

If you cannot sell up because you owe more in tax and repayment fees than the equity in your business then tough/hilarious.

But but but I'm a millionaire.....honest

[Exiled Canadian]

I wish they would stop referring to the change as retrospective, it's not. It's on interest payments going forward.

If you can't get your business to add up under the new tax regime then tough.

If you cannot sell up because you owe more in tax and repayment fees than the equity in your business then tough/hilarious.

But but but I'm a millionaire.....honest

They've also been given a significant grace period to exit the market before the full impact of the changes bites.

MA and those in similar positions have only themselves to blame for the ludicrous situation they find themselves in.

[Si1]

" been invited to consult with The Treasury on the matter next week."

A focus group with a junior treasury officer

Hahahahahahaha!

[Bruce Banner]

I understand that he's attending a workshop, along with other landlords who will be affected by the new rules, not as a "font of wisdom guru". As a self publicist, this joker could give Max Clifford a run for his money.

The Invitation Letter

Subject: RE: Summer Budget Property Measures Consultation

Dear Mark,

As I am sure you will be aware, at the Summer Budget 15 the Chancellor announced two new policies related to property income. Firstly the restriction to finance cost relief for individual residential landlords and secondly the reform of the wear and tear allowance. The Government announced that it would like to consult stakeholders on the detail of these measures, as an individual with an interest in the area we would therefore like to invite you to participate in a discussion on the changes. We are particularly interested in comments on the legislation in the Summer Finance Bill 2015 regarding the restriction to relief for finance costs (clause 24) and your views on the new relief that allows a deduction for actual costs that will replace the wear and tear allowance (https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/replacing-wear-and-tear-allowance-with-tax-relief-for-replacing-furnishings-in-let-residential-dwelling-houses).

We plan on running two workshops to discuss these issues, please do let us know if you are able to attend either of these sessions. If you would like to meet to discuss this issue but none of the times above would be suitable, please let us know and we will explore arranging further meetings.

18th Aug 10.30-12.30

24th Aug 14.30-16.30

Finally, if you are not the correct person to talk to about these measures, please do forward this on to relevant colleagues.

Kind Regards

Sean Rath | Policy Advisor | Personal Tax | Personal Tax, Welfare and Pensions

HM Treasury, 1 Orange, 1 Horse Guards Road, London, SW1A 2HQ

[Ah-so]

" been invited to consult with The Treasury on the matter next week."

A focus group with a junior treasury officer

Hahahahahahaha!

According to linkedin this official graduated in 2008 making him pretty junior in the great run of things. A lot of Treasury officials are quite young, so he may have a degree of influence, but not enough to matter.

I expect he will run a session and write a briefing that will then be filled and ignored.

[bobbo]

Maybe Mark hasn't been invited at all and has simply forgotten to forward the invite to the correct person in his organisation.

Also I notice they want 100k from 4 people for their crowd fund yet so far they have raised 57k from 45 people. It's tempting to make a minimal contribution just to add to the admin. 100k from 5000 people would surely make it unviable.