The Bubbly Bitcoin Thread -- Merged Threads

[ThePrufeshanul]

17 hours ago, evetsm said:

So there's no difference between a coin scammed by an ex-con Ver and a coin that just exists as a trustless network ? I learn something every day.

Not sure what you are getting at here evetsm - prior to the fork the ex-con Ver was heavily associated with BTC but I presume you didn't sell all your Bitcoin on that basis?

The point is that the fork is a valid one, as designed into the Bitcoin protocol, and the market will decide how successful it proves to be.

Bitcoin is thus doing what it was designed to do, complaining about it is like a sailor complaining about the sea.

[evetsm]

7 minutes ago, ThePrufeshanul said:

Not sure what you are getting at here evetsm - prior to the fork the ex-con Ver was heavily associated with BTC but I presume you didn't sell all your Bitcoin on that basis?

The point is that the fork is a valid one, as designed into the Bitcoin protocol, and the market will decide how successful it proves to be.

Bitcoin is thus doing what it was designed to do, complaining about it is like a sailor complaining about the sea.

Ver never had control of bitcoin. Nobody has or had control of bitcoin. Ver, Wright and Bitmain created Bcash. They essentially have one dev and a mining monopoly and Ver scams people into Bcash from a website called BITCOIN.COM. It's a complete centralized scam.

This is what the guy , who many call Satoshi  and he certainly invented bitgold before bitcoin , says about the scam called Bcash :

Nick Szabo Retweeted

Nick Szabo‏ @NickSzabo4 Aug 3

 

 

Nick Szabo Retweeted Helena Margarido

And you may not realize it until irreparable injury has been done.

                                 Helena Margarido @cryptohm

                                 BCash (BCC/BCH) is like fake "Mike" snickers: it looks & feels like the original but if you wear your feet and body will hurt & suffer

9 replies 106 retweets 250 likes

 

 

 

 

 

[Darby Ram]

15 hours ago, markyh said:

To da Moon...............much coin...............make me happy......................I hold 100k Dogecoin from 2014 and at least 1 of my BTC is from Dogecoin mining and converting to BTC over 3-4 months in late 2013/early 2014.

 

Seriously, any idea why? Is it just an Altcoin buying frenzy?

 

Most serious commentators believe that the rise in Dogecoin is due to market manipulation by Jihan Wuuuf.

[goldbug9999]

10 hours ago, Setantii said:

If there is a massive bubble in the Bitcoin market and it implodes could it affect the real economy?

What real economy ?.

[Inoperational Bumblebee]

1 hour ago, Darby Ram said:

Most serious commentators believe that the rise in Dogecoin is due to market manipulation by Jihan Wuuuf.

[ThePrufeshanul]

On 09/11/2017 at 10:06 AM, evetsm said:

I will stick my neck out and suggest that this is the best lecture on crypto, scaling, society, and surveillance you may ever hear

 

 

The guy who delivered this lecture that you posted said:

"Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash will coexist and serve different use cases, just like Bitcoin and Ethereum. Its not a zero sum game. Work on building your project, not on destroying the other"

What do  you think? Ignorant of how Bitcoin works or is he now a scam artist?

[adamLancs]

Keeping my Bcash just incase... sheep mentality and all that. Bitcoin is still surging when combined with forks. $10250 atm.

[ThePrufeshanul]

Exactly - if you truly believe in Bitcoin you know that it forks and you will be given both forks of the coin. 

There is literally nothing else you have to do  - that's the strength of the currency. 

If you decide to pick which fork is going to win and sell the other forks cheaply I suppose it would be in your interest to denigrate them but the "keep them just in case" strategy would seem to be the most sensible one. 

Bitcoin is, in the end, what the people decide it will be.

[doomed]

https://thebitcoincash.fund/

[evetsm]

5 hours ago, ThePrufeshanul said:

The guy who delivered this lecture that you posted said:

"Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash will coexist and serve different use cases, just like Bitcoin and Ethereum. Its not a zero sum game. Work on building your project, not on destroying the other"

What do  you think? Ignorant of how Bitcoin works or is he now a scam artist?

 Of course Bcash can coexist with bitcoin, just like any alt can coexist with bitcoin.  Bcash can survive forever, it just will have no impact on the space because it has no unique use case. It offers nothing better.  It offers slower , more expensive payments than some other alts and less security than bitcoin.  When this latest pump is over bcash will again fall back into obscurity.

[Eddie_George]

3 hours ago, doomed said:

https://thebitcoincash.fund/

http://www.badbitcoin.org/

Edited November 24, 2017 by Eddie_George

[Giraffe]

If you buy any crypto with 'Bit', 'Bitc'  or 'Bit'+ a 'c' somewhere in its name then you are assured of exponential gains. Just buy and forget. 

[markyh]

Another good morning. From £45.5k on Thursday,  £46.3k yesterday, woke up today to £47.8k fiat value of my digital assets.  So still gaining £1k+ per day for two weeks now. Still waiting for another big sell of to begin, but from what high is the question. Crazy and amazing.

[jiltedjen]

all time high again *yawn*

[Giraffe]

As there is no such thing as a free lunch, I recon cryptos (the main coins that is, not the crap coins) are on the cusp of becoming the biggest ponzi in history. Eventually everyone will be pulled in and all the printed fiat will flow there especially after the 2018 global stock and real estate market crash. Nightly reports on the BBC about the latest investment mania. Joe Blogs puts a tenner into bitcoin and has a grand one month later, blah blah. Then one day,... pop! it's all gone, panic crash down to 0.0001% of the max market cap. Thus all the 12 years of central bank created fiat is gone in a flash. All destroyed just as easy as it was created. Every thing back to just as it should be.

[Giraffe]

Joking aside the rise of crypocurrencies is one of the most fascinating things we've witnessed in modern times, probably only pipped by the internet itself. 

How does this end?

 

Bitcoin:

Edited November 25, 2017 by Giraffe

[kibuc]

44 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

As there is no such thing as a free lunch, I recon cryptos (the main coins that is, not the crap coins) are on the cusp of becoming the biggest ponzi in history. Eventually everyone will be pulled in and all the printed fiat will flow there especially after the 2018 global stock and real estate market crash. Nightly reports on the BBC about the latest investment mania. Joe Blogs puts a tenner into bitcoin and has a grand one month later, blah blah. Then one day,... pop! it's all gone, panic crash down to 0.0001% of the max market cap. Thus all the 12 years of central bank created fiat is gone in a flash. All destroyed just as easy as it was created. Every thing back to just as it should be.

But that's not how money works, is it? If people put exorbitant amounts of fiat into crypto, it means somebody else receives that money. When crypto valuation suddenly falls, it only affects how much fait needs to change hands in return for crypto changing hands, but the amount of fiat in the economy stays the same.

If fiat money is created when credit is granted, then it can only get destroyed when credit is repaid.

Edited November 25, 2017 by kibuc

[jiltedjen]

some poor constructed analysis: 

well if it is a pyramid scheme then we have a lot more people to be involved before it crashes. Of everybody i know i personally only know 2 other people who actually have bitcoins, one of which has only bought a tiny amount very recently based upon me. 

Say the average person knows 600 people, so for me thats 1 bitcoin owner out of 300 people. Of those 600 people, only about 300 people are computer savy, of those 300 people only about 100 could be interested, even if it were a massive massive bubble i think best case is maybe 70 people actually buying bitcoin. So lets say 70/600 people is full saturation. So lets say 12% of the uk population. 

In reality the financial stability risk of even say 8% of the population is enough for the Gov to start banning stuff. So 48 people per 600 is probably the realistic (long term) bubble burst saturation point. So that means based upon the 2 people i know, we are 4.1% the way to being full saturation.

Not bad. A lot of the time people buying into pyramid schemes know its a pyramid scheme but want to get in and out before the next guy. If we still have 95.1% of the potential take up to come then thats still a lot of serious growth, not sure how the price mechanisms work with demand, but i suspect each bit of an adoption creates an exponential effect on the price.

Bitcoin is a bubble machine, the most perfectly constructed one ever know. This beats anything else hands-down. Pure genius. But as the adoption is pretty low and slow, people are actually able to build industries around Bitcoin. Bubbles like these can roll and roll, look at railway mania, that involved actually building rails and trains, and yet the whole country was practically paved with rails before it ended, and the resistance and effort to reach that scale would of been massive, it goes to show the power of bubbles, Bitcoin has very little resistance to reach the same scale, its millions of times faster. 

Who knows, but i think bitcoin will continue to surprise people for a long time to come yet, even me an earlyish adopter whos very bullish, i have been wrong constantly with bitcoin, it defies logic, the saying that markets can be very irrational is certainly true.

Just keeps steaming ahead. 

[goldbug9999]

16 minutes ago, kibuc said:

But that's not how money works, is it? If people put extrorbitant amounts of fiat for crypto, it means somebody else receives that money. When crypto valuation suddenly falls, it only affects how much fait needs to change hands in return for crypto changing hands, but the amount of fiat in the economy stays the same.

If fiat money is created when credit is granted, then it can only get destroyed when credit is repaid.

Indeed fiat does not flow into or out of crypto, but relative value does. I'm interested to see what happens long term when using an inflationary currency to bid  up the value of a deflationary one, in principle it creates a positive feedback loop.

[adamLancs]

1 hour ago, kibuc said:

But that's not how money works, is it? If people put exorbitant amounts of fiat into crypto, it means somebody else receives that money. When crypto valuation suddenly falls, it only affects how much fait needs to change hands in return for crypto changing hands, but the amount of fiat in the economy stays the same.

If fiat money is created when credit is granted, then it can only get destroyed when credit is repaid.

It does but it is being devalued relative to crypto.

It's occuring to people right this minute hence the market cap is flipping out...

"I hold £1 I get -negative interest after inflation, house price rises and unfair housing buddy governments outstrip my chance to save for a home and a decent standard of living" - final result after 1 year... £1.01 (interest hehe) but only 90p worth of housing

vs

"I hold 1 Bitcoin I get anywhere from 1000-5000% increase in 1 year, free market dictates the price and emerging technology supports it's future, 21 million cap prevents devaluation by inept governments who can't balance the books without printing (free lesson in life, any ******ing monkey can spend somebody else's money, you don't need an Oxford degree for that), final result after 1 year .... 1 Bitcoin, many multiples in £££

Final result after 5 years...

£1 buys you 50p worth of housing

1 Bitcoin buys you a house

Hmm... tough decision... all just a pipe dream of course. Or is it?

[evetsm]

2 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

Bitcoin is a bubble machine, the most perfectly constructed one ever know.

You seem to be very sure that it's a bubble. I am not sure of that at all. I think it's a new disruptive tech, probably the most disruptive ever seen. With the steepest s-curve adoption ever seen. After all, we are talking about money here and nothing lights a wildfire like a scramble for money.

Edited November 25, 2017 by evetsm

[Toast]

1 hour ago, evetsm said:

You seem to be very sure that it's a bubble. I am not sure of that at all. I think it's a new disruptive tech, probably the most disruptive ever seen. With the steepest s-curve adoption ever seen. After all, we are talking about money here and nothing lights a wildfire like a scramble for money.

Entirely possible to be both: cf jiltedjen's reference to the railway bubble of the 19th century.

[jiltedjen]

god knows, i suspect it is a bubble, i'm not allowing myself to think its an incredible never ending adoption curve or for a very small investment i get a free house.

for me i guess it will always be a bubble until the day i can exchange my coins, or a portion of coins for a house (the only event when i might actually sell). 

until then i'm happy to stick to the bubble line. Fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful. I have been proven very wrong on the bubble line so far, but i will stick to it. 

anyways.

Hobby Mining Update:

seem to be getting a stable 710 to 715 H/S Using Nicehash on the Equihash Pool, this is with 1 x 980ti and 3 x 750ti, put some slight overclocks with MSI afterburner, and i'm currently sat for a few hours monitoring temps. This is generating a whopping 0.00045 BTC a day, which is a whopping £2.85 to £3. Think its only slightly profitable (if you ignore the £1,000's of equipment costs). But saves running the electric heater. 

Adding another 980ti should take me to just under 1,200 H/S this should make about £4.80 a day, about 0.00076 BTC a day

I don't run the mining rig 24 hours a day, only when i'm at home and awake for a hobby, but it probably runs for maybe 30ish hours hours a week.

i still have a bitfury, an antminer, and a block erupter ASIC USB miners, but so far unable to get them running, will try again in anger in a week or two, but i can flip these for a profit on ebay if i give up as thankfully the bitcoin price has gone up. 

 

[Toast]

3 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

Bubbles like these can roll and roll, look at railway mania, that involved actually building rails and trains, and yet the whole country was practically paved with rails before it ended

It's a good point that the mania and loose money associated with a bubble can lead to the creation of infrastructure or technology that would never have happened otherwise (or would have happened more slowly). That can indeed lay the foundation for new economic growth once everyone has calmed down a bit and finished being bankrupt and throwing themselves out of windows. The railway expansion was a paramount example, and I would guess that the dotcom bubble drove adoption of the internet and the expansion of bandwidth, as well as diverting investment into code development. Another example where wasteful investment (not a consumer bubble this time) led to interesting outcomes, was the cold war arms race, culminating in the moon landings and spy satellites, which put in place the technology for satellite communication. It doesn't always work that way, of course: the Dutch tulip mania didn't leave much in the way of anything useful behind (although perhaps horticulture and floriculture in NL might owe something to it, through the development of greenhouses ... I don't know the history of those industries).

Anyway, the question that I'm rambling towards is: even if bitcoin is a bubble, will it leave a useful legacy? The answer you are going to give me is that it will lead to a decentralised currency, not under the control of nefarious authorities. However, at the moment, it doesn't seem to be doing that, because almost no one is using it as a medium of exchange, just as a store of value. If this bubble doesn't drive bitcoin's use as a currency, then surely we could end with everyone holding metaphorical piles of tulip bulbs, rather than the keys to a classical liberal freemarket paradise?

[dugsbody]

4 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

Bitcoin is a bubble machine, the most perfectly constructed one ever know.

My views on bitcoin should be apparent: Not a fundamental believer that it's solving much of a problem except to create wealth for early adopters.

But I keep taking exception with this word bubble. I know we're getting into semantics here, but since you cannot value bitcoin, probably the correct value is zero. Anything above that is a "bubble". And since people seem willing to transact at higher and higher prices, IT ISN'T A BUBBLE. Current cost of $8500 per bitcoin makes as much or as little sense as $1 per bitcoin or $100k per bitcoin. If you said $1000 was a bubble, you might have thought "hey I'm correct" when it crashed back down. But pretty soon, it was way above $1000. 

What if we reframed it and said 1 satoshi cost only 0.0085 US cents. That is ridiculously cheap for just 1 satoshi. It can't be in a bubble.

Anyway, I bought more today, yes at the "all time high", because I think this frenzy has some way to go.