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The Bubbly Bitcoin Thread -- Merged Threads


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HOLA441

This is crypto. Nothing ever goes smoothly!

Bitcoin is having a nice run but the scaling mess may come to a head in two months. I have no idea how that's going to turn out. 

I'm gradually hedging around. Picked up some storj recently as expect some pumps when it converts to erc20. It pumped already. Probably be more by people who missed out on sia.

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HOLA442

When buying a coffee, security is not a high priority. Do not store your savings on CoffeeChain(tm).- Nick Szabo

In other words, don't forsake security for scalability. The value of bitcoin is in its security. Digital gold, not digital dollar.

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HOLA443
21 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

another fresh bitcoin high today. 

Yeah its interesting, this latest surge (last couple of months) seems to be a lot more sticky than previous flurries. But then I think its been driven by genuine new takeup, as in japan and korea rather than being at the mercy of the ever so fickle chinese investors.

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HOLA447
On 05/06/2017 at 0:21 PM, evetsm said:

Be very afraid. Tweet by Nick Szabo, some think that he is Satoshi :

 

Replying to this outrageous tweet yesterday by lead Ethereum Architect/Dev, Vitalik Buterin :

I think that tweet should be captured for notoriety, before he deletes it :

 

 

Vitalik ButerinVerified account @VitalikButerin

No. Casper can survive 51% attacks happening once in a while; we can just delete the attackers' deposits and keep going.

 

He is talking about the protocol not the programmers. It's a misunderstood statement.

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HOLA448
11 hours ago, Quicken said:

I've been primarily in XMR since 2014, and it's done very, very well. Development and adoption are both progressing nicely and the price has gone from 30 cents or so to over $50 since the start of 2016. Given what has happened to ripple, LTC etc. recently, it can go much, much higher.

Q

Someone who in into Monero? Wow. When I visit forums around the Internet and even watch things such as CNBC, I see people who are total noobs commentating on crypto. And they get things so wrong.

 

I agree Monero is the most undervalued coin. I think part of the problem is that its code is very different from BTC forks. Thus wallets are harder to develop.

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HOLA449
7 hours ago, lombardo said:

 

I agree Monero is the most undervalued coin. I think part of the problem is that its code is very different from BTC forks. Thus wallets are harder to develop.

Which is why it is ASIC rig resistant (at least until the price goes up.

All my CPUs and GPUs are set on XMR at the moment.

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HOLA4410
7 hours ago, lombardo said:

Someone who in into Monero? Wow. When I visit forums around the Internet and even watch things such as CNBC, I see people who are total noobs commentating on crypto. And they get things so wrong.

 

I agree Monero is the most undervalued coin. I think part of the problem is that its code is very different from BTC forks. Thus wallets are harder to develop.

Gold has the problem that the flows are hidden. If you give your gold to the warehouse to store , how do you know that none of your gold has gone out of the backdoor of the warehouse at night ? Especially when you are not allowed to audit the warehouse independently ? Bitcoin addresses that by marking all the transaction flows in the blockchain, the records frozen in the blockchain forever. So, while you cannot tell who the people involved are , you can tell the flows between addresses. How does Monero address this ? I don't believe that they do. IOW they have the same problem that physical gold does ? In their FAQ they state :

 

"Monero transaction outputs have "plausible deniability" about their state: you can't tell if they are spent or unspent in a certain transaction or not"

 

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15 minutes ago, evetsm said:

Gold has the problem that the flows are hidden. If you give your gold to the warehouse to store , how do you know that none of your gold has gone out of the backdoor of the warehouse at night ? Especially when you are not allowed to audit the warehouse independently ? Bitcoin addresses that by marking all the transaction flows in the blockchain, the records frozen in the blockchain forever. So, while you cannot tell who the people involved are , you can tell the flows between addresses. How does Monero address this ? I don't believe that they do. IOW they have the same problem that physical gold does ? In their FAQ they state :

 

"Monero transaction outputs have "plausible deniability" about their state: you can't tell if they are spent or unspent in a certain transaction or not"

 

Surely thats only a problem if someone else is holding your keys for you e.g. an exchange or online wallet.

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HOLA4412
13 minutes ago, goldbug9999 said:

Surely thats only a problem if someone else is holding your keys for you e.g. an exchange or online wallet.

There are no flows records, it seems. You cannot tell how the transactions flowed, the size and direction, the receiving address and the spending address. ie, there is absolutely no ability to do any audits or to keep any history. Fine if you only want to do darknet type transactions, but what if you want to actually see what happened to your transactions, in a court of law , for example.

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HOLA4413
2 hours ago, evetsm said:

There are no flows records, it seems. You cannot tell how the transactions flowed, the size and direction, the receiving address and the spending address. ie, there is absolutely no ability to do any audits or to keep any history. Fine if you only want to do darknet type transactions, but what if you want to actually see what happened to your transactions, in a court of law , for example.

Monero has the potential to be the private blockchain counterpart to bitcoin's public blockchain. They're both useful IMHO. A company might not want its rivals to be able to see the flow records either. However, the view key system (see below) allows for optional viewing and auditing. Private by default, verifiable when required.

Quote

Monero is stored on an account, which is based on two distinct cryptographic keys: the spend key and the view key.  The spend key is the only key required to authorize the transfer of funds out of a Monero account.  The view key grants access to view (but not spend) the balance of an account and can be handed over for the purposes of an audit.

https://moneroinfo.org/eng-store-and-protect/

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HOLA4419
1 hour ago, jiltedjen said:

Bitcoin wont take over the world for at least 5 more years yet, maybe even 8 years.

but it will eventually. 

Tbh I hope bitcoin fails and another newer coin takes its place. I got into bitcoin too late. I wont miss the next one. The fact that cryptos have the potential to destroy the central bankers are a big bonus.

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HOLA4420
On 5/25/2017 at 5:35 AM, adamLancs said:

Bitstamp.net (BTC), Kraken.com (BTC & ETH & Others), Coinbase.com (BTC & ETH & LTC) all have been around for years now and are pretty solid. Bitfinex recently lost it's banking partner. Coinfloor (BTC) is newer but seems to target UK. Kraken.com, Poloniex.com and Bittrex.com for altcoins.

Without the pain of running a full node you can use what is known as lightweight wallets...

BTC - Electrum Bitcoin Wallet

LTC - Electrum Litecoin Wallet

ETH & ERC20 tokens - myetherwallet.com

You can create your seed offline. This is your key so don't lose it.

There's quite a few mobile wallets now also. Jaxx.io and Exodus.io are popular.

I wouldn't personally like to predict the next top. I remember thinking Bitcoin could shine a light on just how much silly money is in the fiat system if the gates swing open. But perhaps it's also wishful thinking. Buyer beware, the graph is looking pretty exponential atm.

Thank you.

Will only and should only put in what I can afford to lose. Who knows. Better than gambling it on the markets. I think it's a self re-enforcing bubble but this is different due to the upcoming recession. If and when global economic downturns emerge and prove to be the shitstrom that we can tell they will be, I expect with greater access to the internet, that bit-coin will sky rocket or at the very least hold value.

I am amazed at the numbers of crypto currencies emerging and am baffled how all of them could survive. It's a bit like the war of the tech formats in terms of VHS, DVD etc to use a poor analogy. a Radio 4 doc talked of how the big banks are spending alot on looking at bitcoin and the power of th theory of the block-chain.

Any news on why Ethereum is  pumping up?

Thanks for the exchange links.

 

Edited by Tapori
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HOLA4421
41 minutes ago, Tapori said:

Thank you.

Will only and should only put in what I can afford to lose. Who knows. Better than gambling it on the markets. I think it's a self re-enforcing bubble but this is different due to the upcoming recession. If and when global economic downturns emerge and prove to be the shitstrom that we can tell they will be, I expect with greater access to the internet, that bit-coin will sky rocket or at the very least hold value.

I am amazed at the numbers of crypto currencies emerging and am baffled how all of them could survive. It's a bit like the war of the tech formats in terms of VHS, DVD etc to use a poor analogy. a Radio 4 doc talked of how the big banks are spending alot on looking at bitcoin.

Any news on why Ethereum is  pumping up?

Thanks for the exchange links.

 

The banks are actually very interested in blockchain solutions, that is, the technology which underpins Bitcoin and others like it.

Before Bitcoin came along, the problem with a decentralized network was trust. Bitcoin solved that problem, so now we can have trustless networks (ie. you don't need to place trust in other people). The reason you are seeing a rapidly growing number of crypto currencies emerging is because there are an infinite amount of uses for a trustless network, it is not just limited to finance. As already discussed here, it seems that infrastructure currencies are leading the way right now. It would seem likely that after this bubble bursts, there will be new generation of currencies that utilize the infrastructure that is currently being built.

So some examples you have Storage & Cloud Computing projects:

Siacoin, StorjX, Golem, iEx.ec, IPFS

Prediction Markets & Gambling:

Augur, Gnosis, Edgeless

Crowdfunding & Lending Circles:

Wings, WeTrust

Decentralized websites:

Maidsafe, Blockstack, Shift

Advertising & Content rewards:

Steemit, Golos, Synereo, Basic Attention Token (project by creator of Javascript and co-founder of Mozilla and Firefox),

Developer-friendly projects:

Stratis (C#), Lisk (Javascript), Ubiq

Forex:

Ripple, Lykke (project by co-founder of Oanda), ...

(Disclaimer: I'm invested in some of these)

Most of these are 2nd generation cryptos, the 1st generation being the ones that changed a small bit of code in the Bitcoin core and gave themselves a different name. You can't get away with that now. You have to convince investors that you have a solid business plan and increasingly, people are looking for a great team of people and also a working model.

I suspect for the 3rd generation, every one of these projects is going to have serious competition, and the sector is going to blossom into something crazy, utilizing some of the developer-friendly projects and infrastructure listed above.

The inter-connectivity potential of blockchain is immense, many projects are leaning on each other and pull ideas from each other and the community spirit is awesome. (Probably because everybody is invested and is motivated to participate.)

Also in answer to your question, I suspect we are in some kind of Ethereum token bubble, as the ICOs are pulling an increasing amount of investment. BAT (Basic Attention Token) raised $35 million in 30 seconds just a few days ago. Bancor is the next big ICO on the 12th and has a uncapped ICO of 1 hour. Wings are forecasting them to raise $60million+ but my suspicion is it's going to be much higher. I don't want to pretend I know when this bubble will pop, only that the money inflow upto now has already entrenched good progress for the future as many of these companies have significant reserves.

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HOLA4422

I'm big into blockchains but there is no chance of this happening any time soon, partly for political and social reasons and partly for technical ones. Public chains don't scale and won't for a for years yet.

They'll continue to be used for speculative reasons and we may see interesting applications of public and consortium chains. 

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HOLA4423
12 hours ago, GreenDevil said:

Tbh I hope bitcoin fails and another newer coin takes its place. I got into bitcoin too late. I wont miss the next one. The fact that cryptos have the potential to destroy the central bankers are a big bonus.

LOL! You've just summed up why hundreds of altcoins already exist.

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HOLA4424
12 hours ago, GreenDevil said:

Tbh I hope bitcoin fails and another newer coin takes its place. I got into bitcoin too late. I wont miss the next one. The fact that cryptos have the potential to destroy the central bankers are a big bonus.

No more than 22 million coins will ever exist. Earth population >  7 billion. You can still buy one btc for a couple of grand.

Nowhere near too late imho.

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HOLA4425

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