Universal Credit New Thread.complete Disaster.

[Houdini]

And to show exactly how ill thought out Universal Credit is other ways...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42036462

[Futuroid]

And the bad publicity just keeps on a comin'

100,000 people on universal credit will not receive a payment at Christmas

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/universal-credit-payments-christmas-new-year-estimated-100000-no-payment-a8062271.html

Because they are paid weekly and December is a 5 week month, it will tip them over the limit forcing them off UC. Sounds like they then have to re-apply in January! Sounds like a lot of red tape - I thought that only originated from Europe?

Turns out it wasn't the Grinch who stole Christmas after all, it was IDS!

[mrtickle]

5 hours ago, Futuroid said:

Wind your neck arms in.

I was simply putting forward the Tory perception as they start hunting for votes.

ok fair enough!

[doahh]

Universal credit in new crisis as some claimants are denied mortgages:

Quote

The mortgage problem came to light after Julie Broughton* contacted Money to say that she was worried she could lose the mortgage that had been agreed in principle by NatWest. She said the bank had slashed the amount it was willing to lend her from £103,000 to just £59,000 because she wasn’t able to provide it with a written letter from the Department for Work and Pensions detailing the breakdown of her payment.

...

An “award letter” from the DWP can be a useful way of officially proving entitlement to a benefit, but it is understood that these are no longer being posted out. Some individuals applying for a home loan are submitting a print-out or screen-grab from their universal credit online account – as Broughton did – but this is being rejected as unacceptable.

I expect that this will be sorted out at some point but it is an interesting unintended consequence.

[Houdini]

Universal credit can be used as proof of income for a mortgage? 

[spyguy]

26 minutes ago, Houdini said:

Universal credit can be used as proof of income for a mortgage? 

'Thousands – perhaps even millions – of people could have trouble obtaining a mortgage because of problems with the way the government’s universal credit system and banks and building societies “talk” to each other.'

Fuxing Tories. Theyll be wanting people to work next.

 

 

[winkie]

On 04/11/2017 at 2:04 AM, oatbake said:

Poor landlord really cut up about having to evict tenants on UC:

 https://www.property118.com/lbc-landlords-heartbreaking-take-hell-universal-credit/

Nobody forces anyone to be a landlord.....they make out they are doing society a favour when they indirectly create problems for society...... isn't enough to own one home to live in and have peace of mind..... landlords have been used by governments to provide social housing at a high price to the rest of society, removing homes from the market many tenants today could have purchased in the past....now the money and the terms not so generous they don't like it....we need solutions for housing for people with needs but paying private landlords high prices is not the answer for tenants nor tax payers.

[Ash4781]

Check out the department for education consultation - Eligibility for free school meals and the early years pupil premium under Universal Credit. They provide a simple example of how UC and it’s effect of free school meal eligibility. Example A - single parent 23 works 16hrs minimum wage  earns £7,400 a year but with other benefits however with benefits their household income becomes £18,200. Ok so the political decision is that they will now gain free meal eligibility. Fair enough. However, the top ups are crazy !

https://consult.education.gov.uk/healthy-pupil-unit/fsm/

[spyguy]

1 hour ago, Ash4781 said:

Check out the department for education consultation - Eligibility for free school meals and the early years pupil premium under Universal Credit. They provide a simple example of how UC and it’s effect of free school meal eligibility. Example A - single parent 23 works 16hrs minimum wage  earns £7,400 a year but with other benefits however with benefits their household income becomes £18,200. Ok so the political decision is that they will now gain free meal eligibility. Fair enough. However, the top ups are crazy !

https://consult.education.gov.uk/healthy-pupil-unit/fsm/

Its the hours that fux me off.

If the hours were bumped up to at least 30 then Id be happy with top up 18k. 2 kid limit. Goes to 40h when youngest is 14. Stops at 18.

The worse thing about Brown's tax credit mess is that, fundamentally, tax credits are a good idea - encourage people who might sit on benefits whilst they have kids to work.

But the moron turned it into a lavish transfers for fux all hours.

[Ash4781]

On 05/12/2017 at 4:25 PM, spyguy said:

Its the hours that fux me off.

If the hours were bumped up to at least 30 then Id be happy with top up 18k. 2 kid limit. Goes to 40h when youngest is 14. Stops at 18.

The worse thing about Brown's tax credit mess is that, fundamentally, tax credits are a good idea - encourage people who might sit on benefits whilst they have kids to work.

But the moron turned it into a lavish transfers for fux all hours.

Wow just reading upthread it’s in mortgages so leveraged into the system as well as the demand, and individuals used to a certain lifestyle . I’m unsure how they could unwind this - I thought maybe they could really raise up the personal tax allowance but presumably then they’d have to raise other taxes and or tax bands. 

I can’t see inflation helping either (without the wage inflation). 

Maybe UC /tax credits in the longer term planning evolves into some kind of universal income system?

(Just thinking out aload what happens to welfare in a recession)

Edited December 6, 2017 by Ash4781

[GinAndPlatonic]

Tory MP Heidi Allen left in tears after hearing story of hungry family being invited to funeral to eat leftover food during Universal Credit debate

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mp-heidi-allen-left-in-tears-after-hearing-story-of-hungry-family-being-invited-to-funeral-to-a3711346.html

[spyguy]

3 minutes ago, GinAndPlatonic said:

Tory MP Heidi Allen left in tears after hearing story of hungry family being invited to funeral to eat leftover food during Universal Credit debate

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mp-heidi-allen-left-in-tears-after-hearing-story-of-hungry-family-being-invited-to-funeral-to-a3711346.html

Yeah.

'Go, have a nibble of his thigh. Its no good to him now...'

Working age people not working should be poor. Theyd be p1ss poor in any other developed country. In the 3rd world they be on the streets.

Dont p1ss around with th1s ****** stories. Yes, dss fux up, they are useless. They also have to deal with 30% of working age families living off benefits.

[spyguy]

1 hour ago, Ash4781 said:

Wow just reading upthread it’s in mortgages so leveraged into the system as well as the demand, and individuals used to a certain lifestyle . I’m unsure how they could unwind this - I thought maybe they could really raise up the personal tax allowance but presumably then they’d have to raise other taxes and or tax bands. 

I can’t see inflation helping either (without the wage inflation). 

Maybe UC /tax credits in the longer term planning evolves into some kind of universal income system?

(Just thinking out aload what happens to welfare in a recession)

Theres people on tax credits with a handful of BTL. That ends dead when s24 comes in.

Just think thru the insanity of yhat for a moment - people whove borrowed getting on for 1m claiming benefits.

Read it again, just so you get it.

[durhamborn]

13 hours ago, spyguy said:

Yeah.

'Go, have a nibble of his thigh. Its no good to him now...'

Working age people not working should be poor. Theyd be p1ss poor in any other developed country. In the 3rd world they be on the streets.

Dont p1ss around with th1s ****** stories. Yes, dss fux up, they are useless. They also have to deal with 30% of working age families living off benefits.

We have a massive problem in this country with this.There are odd cases where people are left with nothing.There is also a lot of real poverty among unemployed or under employed single people.The welfare system fails them.No doubt about that.However there are huge numbers of people getting massive amounts of free money.

A couple both on ESA and linked benefits get £570 a week in hand between them BEFORE housing benefit.Think about that.In my home town if you have a child with some made up ADHD or something and are on tax credits and get the DLA you get more than the best private sector job pays in the town.There are hundreds of these.When i was on the council i saw the figures for the town.Labour were wanting them to claim how poor the town was etc.59% of working age people were getting tax credits,DLA etc.44% of the houses were getting over £10k a year in benefits,only 12% of the houses were paying in more than they got out.

I dont think people understand just how insane it all is.Brown created a disaster.Out of my friends from school.The ones with grandchildren now are the ones whos daughters/sons etc are all on tax credits,not working or working 16 hours.The ones who have working children mostly dont have grandchildren.Darwin would of loved it.Reform will only come once the country is bankrupted through inflation at the end of the next cycle.Until then nothing will change.Its too far gone.

[Fletcher]

15 hours ago, spyguy said:

Theres people on tax credits with a handful of BTL. That ends dead when s24 comes in.

Just think thru the insanity of yhat for a moment - people whove borrowed getting on for 1m claiming benefits.

Read it again, just so you get it.

Tax credits.... benefits by any other name.  That Gordon Brown, he was both a cunning fox and an imbecile. 

[spyguy]

16 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

Tax credits.... benefits by any other name.  That Gordon Brown, he was both a cunning fox and an imbecile. 

No. Just an imbecile and imbecile.

[Funn3r]

16 hours ago, spyguy said:

Yeah.

'Go, have a nibble of his thigh. Its no good to him now...'

Working age people not working should be poor. Theyd be p1ss poor in any other developed country. In the 3rd world they be on the streets.

Dear Mr. Spyguy

We at Super Films Ltd are casting now for our next project which is a remake of A Christmas Carol. 

We have a part as one of the lead characters which we think would be ideal for you! Please get in touch at your convenience.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Funn3r
failed to spell xmas correctly

[spyguy]

8 minutes ago, Funn3r said:

Dear Mr. Spyguy

We at Super Films Ltd are casting now for our next project which is a remake of A Christmas Carol. 

We have a part as one of the lead characters which we think would be ideal for you! Please get in touch at your convenience.

In which case Id recommend you contact Chardonney Tenkids for the part of Scrooge and ask her to distribute a bit of her 60k equivalent income to the poor, single, childless 40h working person playing Tiny Tim.

[GinAndPlatonic]

It`s the honest that get screwed mostly and I use the word honest loosely.

People who try to do the  right thing. Single moms with one child working school hours and trying to keep things together, while clothing and feeding the kid, are some who can struggle..There are always players such as the examples DB alludes to. Claiming disability along with ADD etc, HB, and all those together. I don`t sweat over those people because I don`t want them taking up space in my head. It is totally wrong, I know, and maybe in their lifetime they will ultimately suffer, because they have no independant, and self supporting mind frame.

Maybe their kids will suffer, being brought up in that sort of household where its the government who always provides. ( I know the tax payers) Maybe they will break loose from that mindset when they grow up, who knows.

When I see the vitriol focussed on some sections though, it just makes me wonder that maybe these attacks are misplaced and should be on the system and people like messrs Gordon Brown et al, who are the only culprits. And at the same time it gives me some relief that it was only Gordon Brown who designed the WTC system (even if it is stuffed) and not those who hate and point fingers while spouting vitriol.

You have followers in any society then the followers need leaders...if the followers are hand fed they will eat for sure.

[guest_northshore]

32 minutes ago, fru-gal said:

Isn't it harder to get DLA for kids these days (or PIP/ESA for adults)? Thought the tests normally mean most people get zero points?

Yes. Also results in rejection for eg. statemented children with genetic disorders such as chromosome duplication and quite severe mental and physical disabilities. But they can manage a short period of answering tick-box questions on self-care and reading as an 8 year might do, despite being 16.

Not my child, but our society has a diseased sense of priorities.

[mrtickle]

9 hours ago, spyguy said:

In which case Id recommend you contact Chardonney Tenkids for the part of Scrooge and ask her to distribute a bit of her 60k equivalent income to the poor, single, childless 40h working person playing Tiny Tim.

Excellent response to a ludicrous and facile accusation.

Edited December 7, 2017 by mrtickle

[spyguy]

9 hours ago, mrtickle said:

Excellent response to a ludicrous and facile accusation.

'err boy, Wazza, here's £50, go and buy the biggest  fexxing chicken bucket from KFC ....'

[durhamborn]

17 hours ago, fru-gal said:

Isn't it harder to get DLA for kids these days (or PIP/ESA for adults)? Thought the tests normally mean most people get zero points?

Its harder to get DLA mobility,its just as easy as ever to get care.If you get the doc to sign as ADHD or some other behaviour name you will get it.Iv known plenty of people get 0 points and then go to appeal and get it for life (they usually define that as 10 years before you need to apply again).

I know a woman 58 who is probably the fittest person i know of that age who has got carers allowance for 20 years.She had a bad back genuine when she got it,got better,but then claimed depression.She is out every day with her sisters,pub lunches etc.Zero wrong with her.At the same time other people who arent very well are working to pay for it for her.The system is a disaster.In the North east now your lifestyle doesnt depend on what job you can get (apart from for a very small minority) it depends on what benefits you can scam.Tax credits are very generous,add in DLA for a child that then allows carers and also doubled tax credits and its like landing a £30k a year job.

[The Preacherman]

On 08/12/2017 at 9:09 AM, durhamborn said:

Its harder to get DLA mobility,its just as easy as ever to get care.If you get the doc to sign as ADHD or some other behaviour name you will get it.Iv known plenty of people get 0 points and then go to appeal and get it for life (they usually define that as 10 years before you need to apply again).

I know a woman 58 who is probably the fittest person i know of that age who has got carers allowance for 20 years.She had a bad back genuine when she got it,got better,but then claimed depression.She is out every day with her sisters,pub lunches etc.Zero wrong with her.At the same time other people who arent very well are working to pay for it for her.The system is a disaster.In the North east now your lifestyle doesnt depend on what job you can get (apart from for a very small minority) it depends on what benefits you can scam.Tax credits are very generous,add in DLA for a child that then allows carers and also doubled tax credits and its like landing a £30k a year job.

Grass the f**ker up then.

[mrtickle]

2 hours ago, The Preacherman said:

Grass the f**ker up then.

That would be as effective as turning up after a volcano eruption with a dustpan and brush.