What Are The Consequences Of Not Paying Rent?

[MrPants]

Hello,

Here's the relevant facts:

1) I have been in a rental flat for the last three and a half years waiting for the house prices to approach reasonable levels.

2) I am likely to buy in the next 12 months (losing faith in a nominal HPC/turning 40/been in rentsl for 20 years)

3) I will need a mortgage of up to 50% LTV

4) The flat has terrible problems from noisy neighbours for the last 12 months. These are ongoing. Various efforts to resolve this have all been inneffective

5) When I moved in the flat was brand new. The letting agents refused to acknowledge my repeated requests for an inventory.

6) I paid a deposit of 1 months rent when I moved. This was initally kept in a deposit scheme but then I receieved a letter last year saying it was no longer in that scheme. I received no notification of it having been placed into another scheme.

7) When I have argued with the letting agents over the noise problem I have quoted my right to 'quiet enjoyment' of the property and said that they are breaching that

by letting the flat underneath to very noisy people. I made a threat to withhold a quarter of rent until the noise problem was resolved. I have yet to follow through on this as i) I don't want to move just yet and ii) I fear it may harm my credit rating.

8) The letting agent seems ineffective in it's attempts to deal with, or evict, noisy tenants.

What I am considering:

1) I have already decided I am not going to not pay my last months rent to ensure that I do not lose my deposit. I doubt the letting agent's good faith in this matter and whilst I would be in a strong legal position to get my desposit back I'd rather just skip a month's rent and save myself all the fuss.

2) If I am doing this why not go the whole hog and skip say the last two months rent so I actually get some small compensation for the reduced utility of the flat due to noisy neighbours?

So I guess my questions are:

1) Can not paying rent impact my credit rating and hence my ability to get a mortgage?

2) Can the landlord really do anything if I skip the last two menths rent? Im buying a house so it's not as if I need a reference.

3) Should I tell the landlord what I'm doing and why or just ignore all communication from them until I leave (I suspect the latter option may be the better one).

[zebbedee]

If you don't pay the rent the LL will keep the deposit in lieu, if there is damage then he could sue (assuming the money is not in a scheme, you can check with the three schemes) for any deficit between the rectification cost and the deposit sum, likewise if you don't pay 2 months rent. Basically although they cannot deduct from the deposit if it is not protected they can still sue you for any loss and if you haven't paid the rent you will lose, if they can prove damage and the costs of rectification you will lose on that as well.

I'm not entirely sure but as there is no credit involved it will not impact your credit score but the CCJ would.

Its a ******* eh.

It would be possible for you to sue the LA for unlawful eviction if you could demonstrate that their failing to deal with the neighbors (assuming they are the same agents) caused you to vacate the rental but then only for necessarily cost incurred in moving. IANAL

Edited May 2, 2012 by zebbedee

[Wurzel Of Highbridge]

Do you have a credit agreement with them? No.

They 'could' take you to small claims and get a CCJ however this is unlikely if they do not have your deposit int he required scheme and have not done anything about the noise.

Just to follow up on the noise, report it to the council so that you have some other evidence.

[Guest_Bosworth_*]

"Quiet enjoyment" is a legal term that requires the landlord to leave you in peace. It has nothing to do with noisy neighbours - your landlord has no obvious duty to you regarding the noisy neighbours.

[Son of Taeper]

Apart from the answers that have been given, I guess you need to consider any checks an employer might take.

Not sure what line of work you're in so I can't say if it would affect you .

If they already hold a months deposit, they would only lose the additional month.

If they chose to chase it you might find a new stain appears on your carpet a week after you move out,

I don't know to be honest.

[gadget]

Hmm... not sure about your complaints to be honest

The inventory is to protect the landlord not the tenant. If they don't have one they won't be able to make any deposit deductions for any damage.

Noisy neighbours are not the landlords responsibility (even if they're also the noisy neighbours landlords) You should be complaining to the council (they generally take this seriously)

If you withhold two months rent you're risking two things, depending on how legal / dodgy the landlord is. The landlord could make a claim in the small claims court. Or you could come home one day to find the locks changed and all your stuff on the street.

[zebbedee]

Hmm... not sure about your complaints to be honest

The inventory is to protect the landlord not the tenant. If they don't have one they won't be able to make any deposit deductions for any damage.

Noisy neighbours are not the landlords responsibility (even if they're also the noisy neighbours landlords) You should be complaining to the council (they generally take this seriously)

If you withhold two months rent you're risking two things, depending on how legal / dodgy the landlord is. The landlord could make a claim in the small claims court. Or you could come home one day to find the locks changed and all your stuff on the street.

It protects both if it exists and is accurate, prevents LL claiming T left a washing machine in the joint on vacation when it was already there at check in for example.

“It seems to me clear that if a man permits an offensive thing on his premises to continue to offend, that is if he knows that it is operating offensively, is able to prevent it and omits to prevent it he is permitting the nuisance to continue; in other words he is continuing it.” http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2010/1793.html

Although yes, the council is the way to go.

And stuff on the street is an easy win for you

Edited May 2, 2012 by zebbedee

[jonb]

If you don't pay the rent the LL will keep the deposit in lieu, if there is damage then he could sue (assuming the money is not in a scheme, you can check with the three schemes) for any deficit between the rectification cost and the deposit sum, likewise if you don't pay 2 months rent. Basically although they cannot deduct from the deposit if it is not protected they can still sue you for any loss and if you haven't paid the rent you will lose, if they can prove damage and the costs of rectification you will lose on that as well.

I'm not entirely sure but as there is no credit involved it will not impact your credit score but the CCJ would.

Its a ******* eh.

It would be possible for you to sue the LA for unlawful eviction if you could demonstrate that their failing to deal with the neighbors (assuming they are the same agents) caused you to vacate the rental but then only for necessarily cost incurred in moving. IANAL

The CCJ would only appear on your credit record if you don't pay up within 28 days of the judgement or if you don't file a defence.

[jonb]

Hello,

Here's the relevant facts:

1) I have been in a rental flat for the last three and a half years waiting for the house prices to approach reasonable levels.

2) I am likely to buy in the next 12 months (losing faith in a nominal HPC/turning 40/been in rentsl for 20 years)

3) I will need a mortgage of up to 50% LTV

4) The flat has terrible problems from noisy neighbours for the last 12 months. These are ongoing. Various efforts to resolve this have all been inneffective

5) When I moved in the flat was brand new. The letting agents refused to acknowledge my repeated requests for an inventory.

6) I paid a deposit of 1 months rent when I moved. This was initally kept in a deposit scheme but then I receieved a letter last year saying it was no longer in that scheme. I received no notification of it having been placed into another scheme.

7) When I have argued with the letting agents over the noise problem I have quoted my right to 'quiet enjoyment' of the property and said that they are breaching that

by letting the flat underneath to very noisy people. I made a threat to withhold a quarter of rent until the noise problem was resolved. I have yet to follow through on this as i) I don't want to move just yet and ii) I fear it may harm my credit rating.

8) The letting agent seems ineffective in it's attempts to deal with, or evict, noisy tenants.

What I am considering:

1) I have already decided I am not going to not pay my last months rent to ensure that I do not lose my deposit. I doubt the letting agent's good faith in this matter and whilst I would be in a strong legal position to get my desposit back I'd rather just skip a month's rent and save myself all the fuss.

2) If I am doing this why not go the whole hog and skip say the last two months rent so I actually get some small compensation for the reduced utility of the flat due to noisy neighbours?

So I guess my questions are:

1) Can not paying rent impact my credit rating and hence my ability to get a mortgage?

2) Can the landlord really do anything if I skip the last two menths rent? Im buying a house so it's not as if I need a reference.

3) Should I tell the landlord what I'm doing and why or just ignore all communication from them until I leave (I suspect the latter option may be the better one).

They could try to evict you, but by the time they get the eviction you would be gone anyway, and not having the deposit in a scheme could make getting the eviction order a bit difficult anyway. If the deposit isn't in a scheme, then you should withhold three months rent, because that is what you are entitled to get back from them.

[24gray24]

Give proper notice, maybe withhold the last month's rent and instead let them keep the deposit, and move out.

Anything else would be dishonest.

I can't imagine it would go to court. ianal etc.

[Son of Taeper]

It protects both if it exists and is accurate, prevents LL claiming T left a washing machine in the joint on vacation when it was already there at check in for example.

“It seems to me clear that if a man permits an offensive thing on his premises to continue to offend, that is if he knows that it is operating offensively, is able to prevent it and omits to prevent it he is permitting the nuisance to continue; in other words he is continuing it.” http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2010/1793.html

Although yes, the council is the way to go.

And stuff on the street is an easy win for you

Reminds me of this story -

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19830919&id=jvU9AAAAIBAJ&sjid=CUkMAAAAIBAJ&pg=6741,3659549

It's not entirely accurate as the guys that had been renting it were not Hells Angels, but did associate with them on a daily basis.

They offered the cottage to the club, and along with me and a few others, decided to get well out of the area that weekend and be sure to take our wheels with us as we had a good idea what might go down.

The story says police attended twice to speak to the leaseholders, it does not mention that the leaseholders were not around.

Our local paper ran an article the following week stating that one of the guys that complained about the noise was the minister of the environment who happened to live within earshot. If he can't do anything about it I don't know who can

On a side note, the police rounded up everything with two wheels for a 5 mile radius that night.

A friend of mine that went to the local nick to pick up his wheels found the police seemed to take it a bit far as the pound had the typical sort of thing one would expect a Club member to ride -

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lcNqT_c2n-4/TZcRmsSJp7I/AAAAAAAAAs4/fO-8dJlNmwc/s1600/Thunder_Custom_Chopper_Bikes.jpg

along with the not so typical -

http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic-bikes-2/FS1E-DX.jpg

[Guest_JohnBrown_*]

6) I paid a deposit of 1 months rent when I moved. This was initally kept in a deposit scheme but then I receieved a letter last year saying it was no longer in that scheme. I received no notification of it having been placed into another scheme.

If true, then check out http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/34/section/215

Sanctions for non-compliance

(1)If a tenancy deposit has been paid in connection with a shorthold tenancy, no section 21 notice may be given in relation to the tenancy at a time when—

(a)the deposit is not being held in accordance with an authorised scheme, or

(b)the initial requirements of such a scheme (see section 213(4)) have not been complied with in relation to the deposit.

(2)If section 213(6) is not complied with in relation to a deposit given in connection with a shorthold tenancy, no section 21 notice may be given in relation to the tenancy until such time as section 213(6)(a) is complied with.

(3)If any deposit given in connection with a shorthold tenancy could not be lawfully required as a result of section 213(7), no section 21 notice may be given in relation to the tenancy until such time as the property in question is returned to the person by whom it was given as a deposit.

(4)In subsection (3) “deposit” has the meaning given by section 213(8).

(5)In this section a “section 21 notice” means a notice under section 21(1)( or (4)(a) of the Housing Act 1988 (recovery of possession on termination of shorthold tenancy).

In sort, whilst your deposit is not held in accordance with a recognised scheme, the landlord cant evict you.

[MrPants]

Great info. Thanks all. I'm going to check and see if the deposit was put back in any of the schemes.

[kev-all-in]

IMPO, it really depends on the deposit not being in one of the 3 proper schemes. If it's not then I would say you've got a much stronger case. You have a letter saying it was withdrawn, no confirmation of where it went, you checked the public record to no avail so I think you would be entitled to argue you reasonably lost faith in the landlord. Coupled with a breakdown in your relationship with the letting agent because of the documented noise issues.

I'd say 1 month is fine (ie no deposit worries), another month or two would probably be OK - but personally I wouldn't really want the hassle unless they'd REALLY F**KED me off!

It doesn't pay to burn bridges if you don't have to, you never know what might happen in a couple of years - house sale falls through at the last minute or you pull out because of a massive sudden HPC hours before exchange of contracts!! or unexpected relocation and you might end up renting again...

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

Agreed about going to the council over the noisy neighbour issue. I did exactly that a few years ago and they were very effective - even confiscated the scrote's stereo in the end.

My instinct would just be that when you write giving your month's notice, include a line to the effect of "I've stopped the standing order for the rent as of now - please keep the deposit in lieu of the final month's rent". Given that the LL has failed to put it in a deposit scheme, (s)he won't have a leg to stand on in case of any argument.

[gadget]

If true, then check out http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/34/section/215

In sort, whilst your deposit is not held in accordance with a recognised scheme, the landlord cant evict you.

Just to clarify: the landlord can't evict you via a section 21 (no grounds needed).

But if you are two months in arrears the landlord can evict you via a section 8 (where you need grounds for eviction, one being not paying your rent). One of the problems with just not paying your rent is that it puts you in a much more vulnerable position legally...

Personally i'd much rather do things by the book and know i could just take the landlord to court if they tried to diddle my deposit. Plus you get to charge them for the legal costs and interest (8%).

[Bruce Banner]

You'd be unlikely to get a good reference.

[Rozza]

Personally i'd much rather do things by the book and know i could just take the landlord to court if they tried to diddle my deposit. Plus you get to charge them for the legal costs and interest (8%).

I Agree

and at 8% i wish i could ask my landlord to take all of my money as a deposit, thats better than the bank

[The White Horse]

You can't use the excuse of noisy neighbours for not paying / reducing your rental payments - as a previous poster mentioned, it's outside of the control of the landlord.

As well as the council, I would also contact the management company of the apartment block as the leaseholder of the flat will normally have signed the leasehold under agreement that covers this area. The owner of the freehold may be able to exert pressure on the landlord / leaseholder.

[gadget]

As well as the council, I would also contact the management company of the apartment block as the leaseholder of the flat will normally have signed the leasehold under agreement that covers this area. The owner of the freehold may be able to exert pressure on the landlord / leaseholder.

The council are all you need. Having thrown a few parties in my time i can tell you the environmental health are scarier than the police, and have a lot more powers. They can walk into your house and take away anything that makes any sound.