Am I Being Unreasonable To Feel Seething Resentment Towards Those Who Profited From The House Price Bubble

[Venger]

They want everything good in their life, in this case capital appreciation of £705k to be attributed to their skill, hard work and judgement.

Whereas if they had any honesty it would be attributed to having ridden a bubble that screwed over the youngest.

Totally agree. I have only met one person who is over 50 who thinks housing is too expensive. Most think it will continue to go up (though of course they don't mean real vs nominal as they don't understand either term).

And yet many people say these owners have played no part, with no blame to take, for the 2000+ house price inflation. They didn't call for the brakes to be put on, encouraged younger people into the market at ever higher prices saying house prices only go up and in turn seeing their own holding rise in value. It's not just bankers to blame.

[bmf]

And yet many people say these owners have played no part, with no blame to take, for the 2000+ house price inflation. They didn't call for the brakes to be put on, encouraged younger people into the market at ever higher prices saying house prices only go up and in turn seeing their own holding rise in value. It's not just bankers to blame.

Yet it's not a conspiracy. I'd like to say that it was as the truth is more depressing. Say to most people in the UK "what happens if house prices rise above wages indefinitely?" and you will be met with a confused look. The ability to think through even this simple question is completely beyond most. Extrapolating trends is not something they comprehend.

The real problem is an education death-spiral exacerbated by increasing education standards abroad. The only reason we still have places like The City (which yes is pointless but is complicated) is thanks to banks pulling in loads of foreigners to do the complex tasks as the UK education sector cannot meet demand for maths and computer science. A problem in all Western countries from what I've seen. Increasing house prices are just like the city - stuff getting more expensive but with no discernible value added.

When you have an education death-spiral (which is shown up by johnny foreigner learning to read) you have to have a credit bubble if you want to maintain living standards in the short-term. Other than hard work (which is politically unpalatable) there is no other way.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

And yet many people say these owners have played no part, with no blame to take, for the 2000+ house price inflation. They didn't call for the brakes to be put on, encouraged younger people into the market at ever higher prices saying house prices only go up and in turn seeing their own holding rise in value. It's not just bankers to blame.

no more to blame than savers really who didnt bother to wonder what exactly the banks were leveraging and lending against but are upset now when the full credit side of the economy (their perceived savings) dont actually exist in the amounts they thought they did, i gather theres quite a few IT types on here, no doubt in the late 90s they were screaming at companies to not pay them more as it simply wasnt sustainable. And all that lovely equity of the noughties filtered through into the wider economy into every company and person in it.

However only one group are specifically licensed and specifically paid to efficiently allocate Capital within the economy and its none of the above, actually i'll caveat that, there are two groups, there are the special flowers known as politicans aswell, but they have the excuse of generally being thick as pigsh@t despite people seemingly wanting to give them special flower status every four to five years, bankers dont generally have that excuse

Edited April 14, 2012 by Georgia O'Keeffe

[singlemalt]

OP you are completely justified because whilst it's now true that "we're in this together" (i.e. the 5hit) we weren't all in the good times together. People who were prudent have been doubly 5hat on.

[cybernoid]

While they rattle around with their elderly spouse in a 4 bed, 2 sittings room family house by themselves 'worth' £500k that they paid £30k for 25 years ago.

If they ever stopped to ask where the extra £470k came from they might realize that it is coming out of the pockets of their children and grandchildren right now. Hence all the struggling.

Mind you that would sail so far over the heads of the average breeder I wouldn't bother attempting to explain that.

And over the heads of some people on hpc lately also im afraid All of that generation tho unsurprisingly! There is always inherent bias based on your own circumstances I suppose

[Buccaneer]

Yet it's not a conspiracy. I'd like to say that it was as the truth is more depressing. Say to most people in the UK "what happens if house prices rise above wages indefinitely?" and you will be met with a confused look. The ability to think through even this simple question is completely beyond most. Extrapolating trends is not something they comprehend.

The real problem is an education death-spiral exacerbated by increasing education standards abroad. The only reason we still have places like The City (which yes is pointless but is complicated) is thanks to banks pulling in loads of foreigners to do the complex tasks as the UK education sector cannot meet demand for maths and computer science. A problem in all Western countries from what I've seen. Increasing house prices are just like the city - stuff getting more expensive but with no discernible value added.

When you have an education death-spiral (which is shown up by johnny foreigner learning to read) you have to have a credit bubble if you want to maintain living standards in the short-term. Other than hard work (which is politically unpalatable) there is no other way.

Succintly put.

Even when living standards in the UK have been in decline for a generation it still will not dawn on the general population that if you want to enjoy an above average standard of living you have to be capable of working to higher than average standards - unless of course you inherit wealth or win the lottery.

[MrPin]

Succintly put.

Even when living standards in the UK have been in decline for a generation it still will not dawn on the general population that if you want to enjoy an above average standard of living you have to be capable of working to higher than average standards - unless of course you inherit wealth or win the lottery.

I got my O level in 1973!

[cybernoid]

From that thread :

"Ha, ha redshield, a visitor from housepricecrash I see! Still banging on the old 'end is nigh', 'it's happening, this weekend, I swear it's happening' on that site, are you?

Well, I guess it keeps people entertained..."

Im slightly baffled that they have finally started noticing over there that this housing bubble has a bad side for those not born at the right time... and yet this site is still full of nutters apparently. Nutters that have been talking about whats coming for years whilst that sort were lapping up kirsty and phil branded property p0rn.

I find this quote from the movie 12 monkeys relevant :

"He's trying to convince people, well, other doctors mainly, that's there's these teeny tiny invisible bad things called germs that get into your body and make you sick. Ah? He's trying to get doctors to wash their hands. What is this guy? Crazy? Teeny, tiny, invisible? What do you call it? Uh-uh, germs? Huh? What? Now, cut to the 20th century. Last week, as a matter of fact, before I got dragged into this hellhole. I go in to order a burger in this fast food joint, and the guy drops it on the floor. Jim, he picks it up, he wipes it off, he hands it to me like it's all OK. "What about the germs?" I say. He says, "I don't believe in germs. Germs is just a plot they made up so they can sell you disinfectants and soaps." Now he's crazy, right? See?

Ah! Ah! There's no right, there's no wrong, there's only popular opinion."

I can almost hear the gears grinding to a halt... ever rising property not good? NOT good? error.. error...

[Game_Over]

It's a bit schizophrenic complaining about people who borrowed too much AND complaining about people saving.

Make your bloody minds up!!!

[cybernoid]

I've just realised theres an entire section called 'am i being unreasonable', thats hilarious

I can just picture a pouty faced 'yummy mummy' drenched in designer gear her 'DH' bought her standing arms folded in front of an aga stomping her foot. What a forum, comedy gold.

Always reminds me of :

[Redcellar]

OP -> don't feel negative towards them, feel pity. I feel lucky and privileged to have an open mind and be constantly learning and to see things for what they are rather than what some TV show or government wants me to think. I also feel privileged to not be part of a herd, because we all know what happens to 'dumb cows'

[Travisher]

not met me yet then to be fair, you cannot bash the boomers this time as they are too old to be participants in Mumsnet fora.

Hang on, I'm 54 and have young kids and think that houses are stupidly over priced - admittedly I wouldn't find my wife on mumsnet, not her style, but you really shouldn't make assumptions. Not all boomers are lazy, greedy or suffering from brewers droop you know.

[campervanman]

And yet many people say these owners have played no part, with no blame to take, for the 2000+ house price inflation. They didn't call for the brakes to be put on, encouraged younger people into the market at ever higher prices saying house prices only go up and in turn seeing their own holding rise in value. It's not just bankers to blame.

And how exactly could homeowners call for the brakes to be put on?? Blaming others for encouraging ftb's to take on 125% mortgages and liar loans? Now you really are having a laugh Everyone is respobsible for their own actions. House prices went up 3 times because politicians and bankers wanted them to and because there were enough dumbed down fools stupid enough to believe the hype and borrow silly money. Do I blame myself for the idiot who paid twice as much for my house than it was worth 6 years ago? What do you think?

Edited April 14, 2012 by campervanman

[wonderpup]

On page seven : "You only have to go onto House price crash to see what resentment does to a person. Some of them have been foaming at the mouth for 8 years now, every newspaper headline gives them hop that you and I will be homeless on the streets with our children (breeders we're called) because we over stretched, lied to get loans apparently and now we are stealing their free money interest too.

It's not pretty."

But the whole point of the thread they posted this on was that the HPC position was in fact correct- HPI is indeed the social evil it was identified as being on here.

So much misery caused by the reckless greed of a relative handful of bankers and their political pets.

[okaycuckoo]

I've just realised theres an entire section called 'am i being unreasonable', thats hilarious

I can just picture a pouty faced 'yummy mummy' drenched in designer gear her 'DH' bought her standing arms folded in front of an aga stomping her foot. What a forum, comedy gold.

Always reminds me of :

Hehe!

Her "surprised woman" is a good linky for economists' predictive uselessness:

[South Lorne]

Interesting reading at Mumsnet.

Am I being unreasonable to feel seething resentment towards those who profited from the house price bubble and hot anger at the Governments who allowed it to happen?

Click here to read the Mumsnet thread

...she's a gambler who blames everyone but herself ......if it's not the IFA... it's the market ...100% mortgage indeed....and she keeps taking out more loans...her recklessness is the reason we as taxpayers have to bail her out with low IRs and all the other buffers successive governments have put in place to keep her complete financial ineptitude afloat....above the water mark ....the gall to show off her financial illiteracy in public is frightening....

[South Lorne]

But the whole point of the thread they posted this on was that the HPC position was in fact correct- HPI is indeed the social evil it was identified as being on here.

So much misery caused by the reckless greed of a relative handful of bankers and their political pets.

...and she has gambled on a 100% mortgage ....give us all a break ....

[Mrs Bear]

I really couldn't give a monkey's what the mummies on that site are saying.

What rattles me more than any ill-thought-out herd opinion they have is their constant use of DS and DH. For goodness sake, just ****ing say husband or daughter and stop being so ****ing pretentious.

I could of course construct a valid argument against them, but I've learnt that in terms of the general population, herd mentality is not worth fighting against. It's easier just to generally rant about their little habits, as that's equally as valid as their pointless witterings

As for the tide turning, this will only happen when the reality slaps people repeatedly in the face over a period of about 2 years.

If anyone from mumsnet is reading, I hope this post reads as suitably resentful

God knows I'm no mumsnetter but I can't see what's 'pretentious' about it.

Hardly different from ASAP or BTL or OP or IR or WTF or others that HPCers use all the time.

Everyone knows what they mean - it just saves time.

[Bland Unsight]

God knows I'm no mumsnetter but I can't see what's 'pretentious' about it.

Hardly different from ASAP or BTL or OP or IR or WTF or others that HPCers use all the time.

Everyone knows what they mean - it just saves time.

+1

I'm new round here, but with all due respect to those of you who've suffered for 8 years thinking "When will this madness end?", is villifying people on another forum actually good therapy?

If the Scorpion crosses the river on the back of the Fox, they both drown.

Sorry for the sanctimonious crap - I realise that some people have good reason to vent and come here to vent. If venting works for you, fill your boots

[The Generation Game]

My thoughts too when reading the thread. For those in her situation I would lay the blame firmly on Allsop, Spencer et al.

+1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqTvPn82qLU

[Ruffneck]

must be ahead of the curve over there

my parents are 15 years from retirement and just yesterday mentioned off the cuff they are looking to buy an investment property and rent it out for an income when they retire

might keep begging then to hold off the decision for another 12 months maybe they will wake up by then.... scary times

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

Succintly put.

Even when living standards in the UK have been in decline for a generation it still will not dawn on the general population that if you want to enjoy an above average standard of living you have to be capable of working to higher than average standards - unless of course you inherit wealth or win the lottery.

You mean I can't just bank on winning the XFactor?

I do hope the UK is starting to learn this lesson. Some positive signs/green shoots popping up, I think Raspberry Pi and even the new BBC Micro (Eclipse Based Dev environment) is a good start. But we need other skills as well though, and some of these need rather more expensive to get than a £30 ARM based computer. Car manufacturing, steel mills etc need other skills and expensive capital, so it helps if we can attract the manufacturers of such technology back here. We still do a lot of design in the UK, but noticeably most of the engineers are in their mid forties at the youngest - we need the young to learn from them before they retire.

[campervanman]

must be ahead of the curve over there

my parents are 15 years from retirement and just yesterday mentioned off the cuff they are looking to buy an investment property and rent it out for an income when they retire

might keep begging then to hold off the decision for another 12 months maybe they will wake up by then.... scary times

So are you against them getting into BTL or just suggesting they wait a year?

[Its_only_a_house]

As at 48 - the repayment vehicle for many I/O motrgages is winning X factor / Britain's Got Talent / The Voice or the lottery.

A bit of education in probability and statistics in Yrs 7 and 8 might highlight why this isn't sound financial planning.

I used to think Deal or No Deal was an educational programme with the Banker highlighting probability in simple financial terms - but even Noel deosn't get it.

Personally I love the Lottery - a state stupdity tax - just don't understand why the Govt doesn't keep all the profit for the Treasury - why let someone else take it?

As for MumsNet - does she feel similar resentment against everyone who makes better decisions than her, earns more money etc etc. You take your chioces and live with the consequences - don't whine about it.

[campervanman]

As has been stated a few times on this thread, we're a nation of stupid people.

We genuinely do only care about Smartphones, X-Factor and cheap lager.

The average home owning monkey could not understand in a million years the correlation between the young having no chance of affording a home, and the fact that their own home has appreciated massively.

They would never work out why their offspring are still living with them into their twenties and thirties, when they moved out at 18.

Mumsnetters who regard themselves as financial gurus because they were born in the right decade disgust me, and someone who thinks that they've made their fortune in property by staying up until 2am decorating makes me seethe.

Housing in the UK is a disaster zone, and I hope that the young are bright enough (which I doubt, see above) to not buy into this scam, refuse to take on mortgages, and watch the deck of cards tumble.

Mumsnetters who regard themselves as financial gurus because they were born in the right decade disgust me

About time there was a thread about Thatchers children and the 1980's