Silver And 20% Tax

[MrBlonde]

Well I own a few bars of silver. I have purchased in the UK and of course I have paid 20% tax on my purchases.

With some rough maths I need silver to hit $45 to break even. So thats a "rough" 40% price rise to break even.

My purchases were made between $28-40 per ounce.

I know the fundementals of silver and why the silver price may hit $100.

But I was just wondering your opinions on silver? How do you buy your silver?

Do you buy a small amount and put the rest into gold?

Whats your opinions on something like goldmoney or goldsavers where you dont take physical?

[azogar]

Well I own a few bars of silver. I have purchased in the UK and of course I have paid 20% tax on my purchases.

With some rough maths I need silver to hit $45 to break even. So thats a "rough" 40% price rise to break even.

My purchases were made between $28-40 per ounce.

I know the fundementals of silver and why the silver price may hit $100.

But I was just wondering your opinions on silver? How do you buy your silver?

Do you buy a small amount and put the rest into gold?

Whats your opinions on something like goldmoney or goldsavers where you dont take physical?

lots of things to consider

1. buy silver at gm

2. silver bullion coins tend to carry their vat premium thru to the point of sale as long as you do not sell them to a dealer, see what they are fetching on ebay

3. i gave up buying silver with vat added years ago as i buy pre 1920/1947 uk silver coins and foreign silver coins, i also buy scrap which i am gathering to be melted and cast by birmingham assay office which have reasonable costs and give you an assay cert

there are other possibilities as well

Edited April 8, 2012 by p.p.

[MrBlonde]

lots of things to consider

1. buy silver at gm

2. silver bullion coins tend to carry their vat premium thru to the point of sale as long as you do not sell them to a dealer, see what they are fetching on ebay

3. i gave up buying silver with vat added years ago as i buy pre 1920/1947 uk silver coins and foreign silver coins, i also buy scrap which i am gathering to be melted and cast by birmingham assay office which have reasonable costs and give you an assay cert

there are other possibilities as well

Thank you for your response. I also had been collecting old british coinage but was unaware I could get it melted and cast.

I will look into this right away. Thank You again.

[MrBlonde]

lots of things to consider

1. buy silver at gm

2. silver bullion coins tend to carry their vat premium thru to the point of sale as long as you do not sell them to a dealer, see what they are fetching on ebay

3. i gave up buying silver with vat added years ago as i buy pre 1920/1947 uk silver coins and foreign silver coins, i also buy scrap which i am gathering to be melted and cast by birmingham assay office which have reasonable costs and give you an assay cert

there are other possibilities as well

Hi,

So i looked into melting and casting as you said and their prices are reasonable. Thanks.

So......as i already collect some old british coinage pre 1947. Do you think it is worth melting them down or not?

Im not sure how i feel about melting them.

[azogar]

Hi,

So i looked into melting and casting as you said and their prices are reasonable. Thanks.

So......as i already collect some old british coinage pre 1947. Do you think it is worth melting them down or not?

Im not sure how i feel about melting them.

hi

i would avoid using coins for the melt, scrap for me usually consists of spoons, watch cases, mirror backs, jewellery, knife handles etc. once you start looking and find supplies you will come across good sources, i get all my scrap under spot

the end result will be a bar with an assay cert not far away from .925, though some european silver will be .800 etc

[MrBlonde]

hi

i would avoid using coins for the melt, scrap for me usually consists of spoons, watch cases, mirror backs, jewellery, knife handles etc. once you start looking and find supplies you will come across good sources, i get all my scrap under spot

the end result will be a bar with an assay cert not far away from .925, though some european silver will be .800 etc

So the bars will be sterling silver? Did i read that wrong?

Dont they seperate the silver and the other metal?

[azogar]

So the bars will be sterling silver? Did i read that wrong?

Dont they seperate the silver and the other metal?

Their melt service will include a dip sample which is used for the assay cert, so if you are using scrap sterling you will end up with a sterling bar

Refining silver is a whole new ball game. Personally speaking, i like sterling bars, these bars were used for centuries by the spanish, dutch, english etc.

[azogar]

Just to add, the spanish bars would have been. 900, but you get my drift....

[azogar]

Ok my bad, i had certainly seen sterling ingots from dutch and english wrecks, and similarly hordes of spainsh reales would have been .900, but in the case of spanish ingots, these were shipped pure;

http://www.newworldtreasures.com/atocha-bars.htm

[MrBlonde]

Their melt service will include a dip sample which is used for the assay cert, so if you are using scrap sterling you will end up with a sterling bar

Refining silver is a whole new ball game. Personally speaking, i like sterling bars, these bars were used for centuries by the spanish, dutch, english etc.

Thanks for the information dude. I shall go away and look at my options again and work out what is best for me.

[MSE refugee]

I have been using the Birmingham Assay office for the past 18 months to get scrap melted.

You have to send at least 50oz to make it cost effective with cost of the assay and postal charges.

Also I have looked into get the scrap refined but refiners are only interested in huge amounts of silver.

[MrBlonde]

I have been using the Birmingham Assay office for the past 18 months to get scrap melted.

You have to send at least 50oz to make it cost effective with cost of the assay and postal charges.

Also I have looked into get the scrap refined but refiners are only interested in huge amounts of silver.

What do the bars look like? Rough? Smooth? Do you have a photo that I could possibly see?

[MSE refugee]

What do the bars look like? Rough? Smooth? Do you have a photo that I could possibly see?

I am sorry I don't have any pictures and I have hidden them away.

The bars vary in quality some of the lab technicians seem to take more of a pride in their work than others.

I have a couple of really nice bars that are small and chunky,but in general they are long and narrow.

Buying scrap is quite a cost effective way of accumulating silver as there is still vast quantities of sterling silver on ebay or at your local auction house.

[ReggiePerrin]

Another method for buying silver that's a bit cheaper than the UK is to purchase it in Germany, France, Belgium, etc. A number of European countries only charge 7% VAT on `Silver coins; I tend to go for 1oz Austrian Philharmonics.

Bullion, rounds and bars, have VAT applied at 19%. Although if you fancy bars look out for mintbars, they're legal tender so only 7% vat.

You might want to have a look at http://www.vatea.de

An example of a Mintbar: Rwanda 1Kg

[MrBlonde]

Another method for buying silver that's a bit cheaper than the UK is to purchase it in Germany, France, Belgium, etc. A number of European countries only charge 7% VAT on `Silver coins; I tend to go for 1oz Austrian Philharmonics.

Bullion, rounds and bars, have VAT applied at 19%. Although if you fancy bars look out for mintbars, they're legal tender so only 7% vat.

You might want to have a look at http://www.vatea.de

An example of a Mintbar: Rwanda 1Kg

Dont you get charged VAT when it enters the country?

[ReggiePerrin]

Dont you get charged VAT when it enters the country?

Nope; so long as you paid tax in an EU country, it's for personnel use and not for resale there is no further tax liability. You don't have to declare it to HMRC on entry to the UK and there is no limit.

Although you may have a hard time explaining to customs that it's for personnel use if you rock up to the customs post in Dover driving a juggernaut stuffed full of Silver coins?

[MrBlonde]

Nope; so long as you paid tax in an EU country, it's for personnel use and not for resale there is no further tax liability. You don't have to declare it to HMRC on entry to the UK and there is no limit.

Although you may have a hard time explaining to customs that it's for personnel use if you rock up to the customs post in Dover driving a juggernaut stuffed full of Silver coins?

Yea but I mean.......im not gonna go there and buy it. But if I order online....its going to be posted to the UK. Does I stil have to pay VAT then?

[ReggiePerrin]

I tend to order from a UK dealer who delivers it to friends of mine in Germany.. I then collect.

I have to word this carefully....

I think if the dealer is registered in Germany, for example, and they charge you 7% VAT, then there's no problem. I did try to look this up on the HMRC website, but it's useless.

hopefully there's someone around here who knows a bit more than me, alternatively, try a small order and see what happens? I was going to, as I'm after a couple of Canadian coins from their wildlife series.

[MrBlonde]

I tend to order from a UK dealer who delivers it to friends of mine in Germany.. I then collect.

I have to word this carefully....

I think if the dealer is registered in Germany, for example, and they charge you 7% VAT, then there's no problem. I did try to look this up on the HMRC website, but it's useless.

hopefully there's someone around here who knows a bit more than me, alternatively, try a small order and see what happens? I was going to, as I'm after a couple of Canadian coins from their wildlife series.

lol ok dude.

But I have decided to stop stacking silver for now. I have searched and searched for better ways to stack silver but its either very time consuming or expensive.

If i purchased 1kg of silver in the UK it would have to rise 30% to break even. If i bought a smaller volume that % would be even higher.

So as of today.......im sticking to gold.

[azogar]

lol ok dude.

But I have decided to stop stacking silver for now. I have searched and searched for better ways to stack silver but its either very time consuming or expensive.

If i purchased 1kg of silver in the UK it would have to rise 30% to break even. If i bought a smaller volume that % would be even higher.

So as of today.......im sticking to gold.

all due respect but as we have discussed previously your above statement is incorrect

it is quite possible to get exposure to the physical silver market without paying tax; you trade non-numismatic (non bullion) silver coinage......simple

edit - a current example of pre20 sterling silver coinage for sale:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/242-grams-Pre-1920-Silver-Coins-Some-Quite-high-grades-PLEASE-SEE-PHOTOS-/190665912788?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item2c6492f1d4

an current example of pre47 0.500 silver coinage for sale:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2300g-pre-1947-Silver-coins-good-grades-old-collection-not-scrap-florin-shilling-/270955591970?pt=UK_Coins_OtherBritish_RL&hash=item3f16363922

Edited April 16, 2012 by p.p.

[MrBlonde]

all due respect but as we have discussed previously your above statement is incorrect

it is quite possible to get exposure to the physical silver market without paying tax; you trade non-numismatic (non bullion) silver coinage......simple

edit - a current example of pre20 sterling silver coinage for sale:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/242-grams-Pre-1920-Silver-Coins-Some-Quite-high-grades-PLEASE-SEE-PHOTOS-/190665912788?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item2c6492f1d4

an current example of pre47 0.500 silver coinage for sale:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2300g-pre-1947-Silver-coins-good-grades-old-collection-not-scrap-florin-shilling-/270955591970?pt=UK_Coins_OtherBritish_RL&hash=item3f16363922

Yes, it is a cheap way of buying silver. I agree.

But using ebay can be very time consuming.

[MrBlonde]

Your probly thinking thats a lazy way of thinking if its for investment. But lets just say, Im a busy person, im a student and well.....trying to win bids on non bullion grade coins which sometimes get over priced doesnt thrill me.

[SuperChimp]

i gave up buying silver with vat added years ago as i buy pre 1920/1947 uk silver coins and foreign silver coins, i also buy scrap which i am gathering to be melted and cast by birmingham assay office which have reasonable costs and give you an assay cert

Thanks for this. I have been buying silver 1oz coins but they are very expensive. Cheapest I can find in the UK are around £30 per ounze. :angry:

It would make more sense to follow your idea. If a Half Crown pre-1920 had 0.42 ounces of silver and I could buy three for under £24(which seems easy) then this seems to be a far more economic way of buying silver.

How much is it to melt the stuff down at this Birmingham office you are talking about?

Are there others in the UK?

Thanks.

[azogar]

Your probly thinking thats a lazy way of thinking if its for investment. But lets just say, Im a busy person, im a student and well.....trying to win bids on non bullion grade coins which sometimes get over priced doesnt thrill me.

the overpriced thing is easy - calculate your bid on the amount of grams from the start, set your highest bid and walk away, you will end up winning some under spot and will not have to bid in between

otherwise use gold-money which is super lazy and vat free

Edited April 17, 2012 by p.p.

[MSE refugee]

Thanks for this. I have been buying silver 1oz coins but they are very expensive. Cheapest I can find in the UK are around £30 per ounze. :angry:

It would make more sense to follow your idea. If a Half Crown pre-1920 had 0.42 ounces of silver and I could buy three for under £24(which seems easy) then this seems to be a far more economic way of buying silver.

How much is it to melt the stuff down at this Birmingham office you are talking about?

Are there others in the UK?

Thanks.

The best things to buy for scrap are sterling silver spoons and forks rather than bothering with the coins.

You can get some great deals on ebay for around 55p a gram.