timebandit

Amazon-£7Bn Sales, No Uk Corporation Tax

52 posts in this topic

Yet another company joins Vodafone and Barclays

[url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/04/amazon-british-operation-corporation-tax?CMP=twt_gu"]Guardian[/url]

[quote]Britain's biggest online retailer, generated sales of more than £3.3bn in the country last year but paid no corporation tax on any of the profits from that income – and is under investigation by the UK tax authorities.[/quote]

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We're all part of a new country called Europe.

I'm really rather surprised no-one at the Guardian has got this memo and instead wrapped themselves in the Union Jack to write this sort of little englander piece that would be more at home in the Mail.

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owned by one of the richest men in the world, you don't come the richest by giving it away you know.

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Sorry did not see Time bandits post 10 mins earlier, mods please merge delete,

( although I do have a catchier subtitle ) :D Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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[quote name='Saving For a Space Ship' timestamp='1333575353' post='909007061']
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/04/amazon-british-operation-corporation-tax?newsfeed=true
[/quote]

They are just using the same loopholes that most (or more likely all) other multinational corporations are using, if they weren't using them they would be at a competitive disadvantage. In this case the blame is squarely with the government that doesn't care about legislating the loopholes away (I guess they are too busy reducing benefits for the poor...). Edited by awake_eagle

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[quote name='Saving For a Space Ship' timestamp='1333575730' post='909007065']
Sorry did not see Time bandits post 10 mins earlier, mods please merge delete,

( although I do have a catchier subtitle ) :D
[/quote]

Oh much nicer, Mods delete mine Thanks.

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[quote name='Russe11' timestamp='1333575626' post='909007064']
owned by one of the richest men in the world, you don't come the richest by giving it away you know.
[/quote]

...he's not the problem...it's the people putting tax on warm pasties ...they are missing the serious tricks...not very bright...but we voted for them .... :rolleyes:

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Another share that never registered on my horizon. It's increased from $15 in 2002 to $200 now. No yield though.

Oh for a crystal ball!

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[quote name='timebandit' timestamp='1333576208' post='909007073']
Oh much nicer, Mods delete mine Thanks.
[/quote]

Oops.. too late!

My lawyers will be in touch...where there's a merge, there's a claim

For those wondering what we are talking about, the subtitle was 'Well, I'll be Luxem'buggered'

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[quote name='timebandit' timestamp='1333574311' post='909007050']
Yet another company joins Vodafone and Barclays

[url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/04/amazon-british-operation-corporation-tax?CMP=twt_gu"]Guardian[/url]
[/quote]

Think about £1.9m tax was paid out of a 207m turnover on Amazon.co.uk last year. Granted, many of their activities are directed via Amazon s.a.rl,
nowadays but some of the things that Amazon 'sold' were actually sold by the Marketplace sellers. The Jersey VAT loophole is now history since 1st April.

Not sure there is much HMRC can do as we are suppose to have total free trade with EU (and Luxembourg)..

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[quote name='Soon Not a Chain Retailer' timestamp='1333575156' post='909007059']
We're all part of a new country called Europe.

I'm really rather surprised no-one at the Guardian has got this memo and instead wrapped themselves in the Union Jack to write this sort of little englander piece that would be more at home in the Mail.
[/quote]
Funny isn't it? The Grauniad has spent the last 20 years telling everyone the UK should hand over sovereignty to those nice fluffy progressives in Brussels who don't have the inconvenience of having to win elections before changing the law and now that companies like Amazon are taking advantage, as the Gruaniad sees it, of the house that Jacques built, they're suddenly up in arms. Seems to me that they've made their f*cking bed and should damn well lie in it. Alternatively:

[img]http://www.realstreet.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/they-dont-like-it-up-em-tshirt.jpg[/img]

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[quote name='timebandit' timestamp='1333574311' post='909007050']
Yet another company joins Vodafone and Barclays
[url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/04/amazon-british-operation-corporation-tax?CMP=twt_gu"]Guardian[/url]
[/quote]
Oh, and some more reasons the Grauniad should just shut the f*ck up:

http://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/2011/02/19/the-guardians-rank-hypocrisy-on-tax-avoidance/

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what's to stop, say, Tesco from 'relocating' to Luxembourg and classifying its UK stores as 'fulfillment' centres? Just asking!

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[quote name='Saving For a Space Ship' timestamp='1333577261' post='909007087']
For those wondering what we are talking about, the subtitle was 'Well, I'll be Luxem'buggered'
[/quote]
Added back in by popular demand.

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There is an answer and it is quite simple

Scrap the existing tax system and move to LVT and VAT only

Then nothing escapes

Would never happen though because we would need 70% less tax inspectors and accountants and 40% less lawyers

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[quote name=''Bart'' timestamp='1333596042' post='909007144']
Added back in by popular demand.
[/quote]

Thanks, I've now outsourced my back room of oompa loompa 'creatives' to China, for not coming up with the subtitles quickly enough.


[b][u]Amazon tax situation 'undermines UK High Street'
[/u][/b]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9711000/9711255.stm

Estimated £40 Million of tax dodged

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[quote name='tbatst2000' timestamp='1333581889' post='909007124']The Grauniad[/quote]
Just out of interest, can anyone tell me what the basis of AMZN's (in particular, but the whole class of vampyric shell game players in general) claim on...

1/ UK land title
2/ UK policing and justice
3/ UK contract law

... is?

Reason I ask is given AMZN have effectively opted out of UK Inc, the left ought to be encouraging the rabble to go and take what they can from the warehouses (and carparks outside them, and trucks that supply them), encouraging AMZN's downstream consumers to participate in "settlement arbitrage" (ie selectively default on payment), encouraging AMZN's counterparties (and employees) to tear up their contracts, and encouraging the UK public sector to charge what the market (ie AMZN) will bear for any social good consumed (those private militias really cost a packet to run - I don't see any reason at all why the "local" constabularies can't price their service accordingly).

(the usual leftist editorial generally just leaves at least two thirds of the population wondering why [i]they[/i] pony up their protection money to the racketeers) Edited by ParticleMan

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[quote name='daddybear' timestamp='1333606076' post='909007154']

Scrap the existing tax system and move to LVT and VAT only
Then nothing escapes
[/quote]

Sounds a grim scenario. Think I would prefer to escape.

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[quote name='ParticleMan' timestamp='1333703227' post='909007882']
Just out of interest, can anyone tell me what the basis of AMZN's ([b]in particular, but the whole class of vampyric shell game players[/b] in general) claim on...

[/quote]

Instead of a G.Sachs ' Giant Vampire Squid'. perhaps Amazon are more of a 'Giant Angler Fish' shining their online light into the Uk from distant Luxembourg (though arguably, resource-wise, shining it from China, where most stuff they sell is made)

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JRgQxc2OIgg/Tj0Dj48_5AI/AAAAAAAAAT4/9-N45IcDMFQ/s1600/Fining+Nemo+Angler+Fish.jpg[/img] Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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if the goods are stored and shipped from within the uk they should have to pay corporation tax on their activities within the country.

if they register in Luxembourg and ship from Luxembourg then they can take advantage of the tax break all they want.

so either they should move their activities or they must pay tax, other wise they are getting a competitive advantage on everyone else and at the same time contributing very little to the country.

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[quote name='mfp123' timestamp='1333707575' post='909007906']
if the goods are stored and shipped from within the uk they should have to pay corporation tax on their activities within the country.

if they register in Luxembourg and ship from Luxembourg then they can take advantage of the tax break all they want.

so either they should move their activities or they must pay tax, other wise they are getting a competitive advantage on everyone else and at the same time contributing very little to the country.
[/quote]


Totally agree as they are getting an unfair advantage .

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[quote name='mfp123' timestamp='1333707575' post='909007906']
if the goods are stored and shipped from within the uk they should have to pay corporation tax on their activities within the country.

if they register in Luxembourg and ship from Luxembourg then they can take advantage of the tax break all they want.

so either they should move their activities or they must pay tax, other wise they are getting a competitive advantage on everyone else and at the same time contributing very little to the country.
[/quote]

But presumably a Luxembourg company, let say, washingmachinedirect who contract indesit in the UK to do all the warehouse and deliveries is ok. Mainly because the two companies do not have common owners. However, Amazon S.A.RL and Amazon.co.uk are technically two distinct companies and as long as the transaction are at arm length, it is exactly the same situation as washingmachinedirect.

I imagine Tesco can get away with such arrangements as well, people will order from Tesco.LU and then collect form Tesco stores in the UK who act as fufillment agents. Same applies to Argos etc.

There is a way to even things out - cut corporation tax to 0%....... (I have not quite consider what this mean to a big government, but that is for another day)..

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[quote name='mattyboy1973' timestamp='1333590311' post='909007140']
what's to stop, say, Tesco from 'relocating' to Luxembourg and classifying its UK stores as 'fulfillment' centres? Just asking!
[/quote]

I listened to a "File On Four" about this practice a while back, and according to the program Boots and Burger King already use similar accounting sleight of hand to shift profits to countries with lower tax rates.

Of course if you are a simple high-street butcher for example, HMRC have templates of how much profit you should be making and will simply issue you with a demand if they think you are under-declaring, which you then have to prove is incorrect at your own expense.

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[quote name='South Lorne' timestamp='1333576243' post='909007074']
...he's not the problem...it's the people putting tax on warm pasties ...they are missing the serious tricks...not very bright...but we voted for them .... :rolleyes:
[/quote]



....the final straw.....the pasty tax.....people can only take so much, the ones with the least end up paying the most, even down to taxing the food out of their mouths. :rolleyes:

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