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Soldiers Stand By To Drive Petrol Tankers As Part Of Contingency Plans To Stop A Strike Plunging Britain Into Chaos

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Personally someone should promote a national ‘ill’ day – it’s already legal to self cert yourself 5 days ‘sick’. Shut the whole system down for a week and see what the elitico’s plans are then.

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[quote name='Andy D' timestamp='1332751813' post='909000114']
And then you get Wincanton...

"which employs 16,000 staff, pays its 450 drivers £45,000 a year before overtime, putting their wage rate in the top 25pc of haulage companies."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/9166214/Oil-tanker-boss-holds-firm-amid-risk-of-strike-by-drivers.html

Sounds like the unions are just being greedy shit stirring bastards (again)...
[/quote]

Are you suggesting these drivers don't earn their £45k pa?

It always amuses me when workers demand a bit extra, and the sheeple go off and one. Have you seen the trend of wealth distribution in this country?

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[quote name='AThirdWay' timestamp='[url="tel:1332753995"]1332753995[/url]' post='909000137']
Are you suggesting these drivers don't earn their £45k pa?

It always amuses me when workers demand a bit extra, and the sheeple go off and one. Have you seen the trend of wealth distribution in this country?
[/quote]

I agree. It may look like they are taking the pee. However, they are infact just following the example set by those lucky individuals at the top. Part of me would like to see them strike, just for a change of scenery.

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[quote name='AThirdWay' timestamp='1332753995' post='909000137']
Are you suggesting these drivers don't earn their £45k pa?

It always amuses me when workers demand a bit extra, and the sheeple go off and one. Have you seen the trend of wealth distribution in this country?
[/quote]

The government will probably just use the TA for this tight little jam. if you search job centre plus they are always looking for Army drivers. Now you know why!!

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[quote name='workhou' timestamp='1332757515' post='909000167']
The government will probably just use the TA for this tight little jam. if you search job centre plus they are always looking for Army drivers. Now you know why!!
[/quote]

Ah, the SAS (Saturdays And Sundays)!

To be fair, the TA have come on in leaps and bounds since I left the army 11+ years ago, and the standard of their Cat. C drivers was good even then.

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[quote name='mfs1959' timestamp='1332668321' post='908999554']If their wages go up will fuel follow?[/quote]Their wages make up about 0.01% of the cost of fuel.

[quote name='The Dude' timestamp='1332703386' post='908999841']You'd best get ready for anarchy then. Make sure you have plenty of guns. Find yourself a cave to defend in.[/quote]+1 It's not just about fuel for people popping to the shops. It's everyone who works. Doctors, teachers, shelf stackers, power-station workers, airport staff, checkout operators, along with all the back office staff for those operations - for example, with the pickers in the warehouses picking parts for the cars for the workers who work at the warehouse picking medicines to send to pharmacies etc etc.

Most jobs that are "essential" are done by people who need fuel to travel to work.

All jobs are "essential" else no-one would pay to have them done - with the exception of those in the houses of Parliament and Lords and many quangos. Take away any other group of employees and within a month the country would have serious problems.

[quote name='AThirdWay' timestamp='1332758930' post='909000182']To be fair, the TA have come on in leaps and bounds since I left the army 11+ years ago, and the standard of their Cat. C drivers was good even then.[/quote]
Due to over-commitment of the armed forced by the government, the TA are pretty much being treated like the regular army - particularly where TA members are skilled or semi-skilled, for example, Doctors, mechanics and engineers.

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[quote name='AThirdWay' timestamp='1332753995' post='909000137']
Are you suggesting these drivers don't earn their £45k pa?

It always amuses me when workers demand a bit extra, and the sheeple go off and one. Have you seen the trend of wealth distribution in this country?
[/quote]


Nope but it undermines the unions claim that "According to union officials, fracturing the industry into a patchwork of smaller suppliers is leading to a lowering of standards and pay." - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/25/army-standby-petrol-tanker-strike

In other reports the union are saying it's not about pay...

Unite are just shit stirring in my view, if you've got a complaint with your employer go on strike but when unions encourage workers from multiple companies all to go on strike then perhaps we should start applying anti-competitive behaviour laws to them...

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[quote name='deflation' timestamp='1332751932' post='909000115']
However, some drivers at firms have had long established ironclad wage increase contracts that are not reasonable any more. I hear Wincanton tanker drivers are on £16 per hour! If they don't change their terms and conditions, the companies will be undercut by other firms and job losses will follow instead.
[/quote]
Wincanton fell out of the FTSE 250 two or three years back (around the same time Stobart was promoted into it). By that measure, not a company that's prospering.

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Can't help but think the government is expecting some wider general public discontent (don't, for the life of me, understand why!) and this is a first warning shot across the bows. It also disguises training for a wider potential army role should the population have the turmerity to start standing up to say enough is enough.

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[quote name='Ruffneck' timestamp='[url="tel:1332678131"]1332678131[/url]' post='908999617']
get the soldiers to drive trains as well , the train drivers are holding the UK to ransom right now
[/quote]

+1

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[quote name='Longinthetooth' timestamp='1332763449' post='909000225']
Can't help but think the government is expecting some wider general public discontent (don't, for the life of me, understand why!) and this is a first warning shot across the bows. It also disguises training for a wider potential army role should the population have the turmerity to start standing up to say enough is enough.
[/quote]

If you look at what happened after a couple of days of riots.. they wanted the army on the streets almost straight away.

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[quote name='fluffy666' timestamp='1332764231' post='909000235']
If you look at what happened after a couple of days of riots.. they wanted the army on the streets almost straight away.
[/quote]
Who's they? The government or the people?

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[quote name='SeeYouNextTuesday' timestamp='1332764347' post='909000236']
Who's they? The government or the people?
[/quote]

The government. I don't think that the majority of 'the people' were that bothered..

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[quote name='fluffy666' timestamp='1332764463' post='909000238']
The government. I don't think that the majority of 'the people' were that bothered..
[/quote]
Really? That's not how I recall sentiment from the time.

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[quote name='Andy D' timestamp='1332760369' post='909000192']
Nope but it undermines the unions claim that "According to union officials, fracturing the industry into a patchwork of smaller suppliers is leading to a lowering of standards and pay." - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/25/army-standby-petrol-tanker-strike

In other reports the union are saying it's not about pay...

Unite are just shit stirring in my view, if you've got a complaint with your employer go on strike but when unions encourage workers from multiple companies all to go on strike then perhaps we should start applying anti-competitive behaviour laws to them...
[/quote]

What other reports? The two links I have read mention quotes about cuts in conditions, training and safety. All of these are legitimate reasons for concern as far as I'm concerned. Commercial drivers face a rising challenge every day on the road as traffic gets heavier and the infrastructure collapses under the pressure. More training and greater safety standards should be applied in the face of this, not less.

As for multiple companies going on strike, what did you expect? They face the same challenges every day. This gives them a camaraderie that you don't seem to understand. Edited by AThirdWay

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[quote name='RufflesTheGuineaPig' timestamp='1332759882' post='909000187']
Their wages make up about 0.01% of the cost of fuel.
[/quote]

If a driver spends 5 hours delivering 10 tonnes of fuel, I make that £80 in direct wage cost (assuming the £16/hour someone had mentioned), and say £40 for NI and benefits. So that is somewhere in the region of 1p a liter?

Maybe we can all become wealthy by paying just a little bit extra for everything?

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Britain will still descend into chaos....

If and it's a very big if as these things always seem to be worked out beforehand there is a strike then there is no where near enough trained army drivers to maintain distribution at current levels.

There will be a designated fuel station in every district where KEY Workers only will be able to purchase fuel.

If you are asking yourself if this is you then you don't qualify.

At the 2000 bash they got so far as nominating the fuel stations and printing the ration cards. As I was then a key worker (not now though) my employer was asked to submit our names to a central database.

Edit to add: News is breaking now that the vote is for a strike...... Now the horsetrading begins. Edited by geezer466

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[quote name='geezer466' timestamp='1332774037' post='909000329']
Britain will still descend into chaos....

If and it's a very big if as these things always seem to be worked out beforehand there is a strike then there is no where near enough trained army drivers to maintain distribution at current levels.

There will be a designated fuel station in every district where KEY Workers only will be able to purchase fuel.

If you are asking yourself if this is you then you don't qualify.

At the 2000 bash they got so far as nominating the fuel stations and printing the ration cards. As I was then a key worker (not now though) my employer was asked to submit our names to a central database.

Edit to add: News is breaking now that the vote is for a strike...... Now the horsetrading begins.
[/quote]

Interesting thing is that available stocks (i.e. filling station tanks) are perhaps half of what we had in 2000, or even less, due to station closures and stations keeping tanks less full so save on carrying costs.

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[quote name='geezer466' timestamp='1332774037' post='909000329']

At the 2000 bash they got so far as nominating the fuel stations and printing the ration cards. As I was then a key worker (not now though) my employer was asked to submit our names to a central database.

Edit to add: News is breaking now that the vote is for a strike...... Now the horsetrading begins.
[/quote]


So who'll get a ration? Everyone or just the essentials?

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[quote name='geezer466' timestamp='1332774037' post='909000329']
Britain will still descend into chaos....

there is no where near enough trained army drivers to maintain distribution at current levels.
[/quote]

How could you possibly know that? I expect there were people saying "there is no way there is enough stockpiled coal to keep the power on for longer than we can last before starving", indeed some were willing to bet rather a lot on it. Yet it somehow turned out there was plenty and more could be imported.

It is reasonable to expect they will let any strike hurt for a few days so that any public support has time to evaporate. But if it becomes a matter of principle then I rather suspect the government are competent enough to distribute fuel without the striking drivers.

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Is it balls to the wall all out strike action, aka miners or one day public sector parade down the street I'm worth it strike?

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[quote name='MongerOfDoom' timestamp='1332776475' post='909000354']
How could you possibly know that? I expect there were people saying "there is no way there is enough stockpiled coal to keep the power on for longer than we can last before starving", indeed some were willing to bet rather a lot on it. Yet it somehow turned out there was plenty and more could be imported.

It is reasonable to expect they will let any strike hurt for a few days so that any public support has time to evaporate. But if it becomes a matter of principle then I rather suspect the government are competent enough to distribute fuel without the striking drivers.
[/quote]

Scargill was making noises for Months about a strike the Government had the time and nous to stockpile coal supplies at the power stations. There is nothing to stockpile here the issue is the distribution of it which needs specialist labour.

It depends of course on what support the strike gets and if they all come out at once and for how long. But if it is well supported and closes all the depots then the army will struggle, there are simply not enough trained army drivers nor enough kit but I expect they will enter the depots and take what they need.

I served for almost 20 years in the RCT and was put on standby for action similar to this on 2 or 3 occasions. Those times action petered out and we were not needed although I did drive a Green Goddess in North London for a while, but that was the firemans strike

Bottom line, this is a private sector pay dispute. I do not wish the government to step in to resolve it. At most, I would want the Government/Armed Forces to ensure supplies to essential infrastructure of Hospitals, Fire Stations, Police etc. If no petrol gets to the forecourts, the oil companies will lose a lot of money very quickly and be minded to fix their own shit one way or another.

If I were a canny Oil Company, I would ensure I was the only one who kept my delivery drivers sweet and thus capitalise on the others having nothing to sell. From the drivers perspective, this would also incentive the other brands to try to keep their delivery drivers sweet. Its all down to supply and demand and will find its natural level.

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[quote name='geezer466' timestamp='1332781852' post='909000403']
Scargill was making noises for Months about a strike the Government had the time and nous to stockpile coal supplies at the power stations. There is nothing to stockpile here the issue is the distribution of it which needs specialist labour.
[/quote]

It's not like there hasn't been time to prepare.

[quote name='geezer466' timestamp='1332781852' post='909000403']
Bottom line, this is a private sector pay dispute. I do not wish the government to step in to resolve it.
[/quote]

This is a bizarre way of looking at it. The government rightly get involved when things go wrong in the private sector, such as when a monopoly is being exploited. Do you really advocate the government should just watch as the food distribution chain collapses shortly before the NHS, policing, fire service and the rest of civilised society?

The oil companies will not want to bend over for the strikers, and a few weeks' profits won't worry them if it means i) being able to make a massive margin on the fuel they do sell, and ii) not having to overpay the drivers for ever after. The vast majority of the losses would be borne by the public and not the oil companies or the strikers. If there ever was a good reason for the government to intervene, this must surely be it.

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[quote name='MongerOfDoom' timestamp='1332687121' post='908999740']
They can be ordered to do things, won't care about a picket line, and don't have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement. It is also a good way of demonstrating that the strikers' jobs can be done very cheaply and don't require any magic skills that people who are only just literate could not acquire quickly. And it's probably a lot better than being shot at, so nearly everyone wins.
[/quote]

It's a shame the army can't be bought in to replace this diabolical government at significantly reduced wages. I'm sure we would get a better job done and security thrown in for free. I think we would all quickly realise that there are no magical skills required other than talking BS, lying and making false promises at every opportunity.

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Bint from what i think was unite:

"it's about health and safety. Lots of fuel on the back, there can be explosions you know. There's a lot of pressure on the industry, to cut corners. Every year contracts are renewed, with undercutting. We want to end this free for all".

That is not quote perfect.

So she wants a cartel or long contracts, or is it health and safety. Or is it a political stunt. I panick bought first at my local petrol station. Doing my bit. Edited by Snafu

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