winkie Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17429325 'Minimum wage to rise by 11p an hour' ...enough to buy an egg sandwich for lunch....one meal sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewildered_renter Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 what does the Median wage do there then. From the graph that was posted, wages appear to rise for a while. However, IIRC, I've seen similar graphs before, and I don't think they are UK specific and cover the US too. The old way of setting minimum wages in the UK was via the wage councils (incidentally not popular with the trade unions) and I believe they were abolished in the mid 1980s. On your other point of the NMW killing productivity because it destroys the incentive to work hard, not sure I agree. My experience is that if you go the extra mile you might get a few shopping vouchers as a reward (if you're lucky) but it won't translate into better wages. You're just part of the headcount, and senior management will treat you as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frederico Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 That makes no sense. Despite the predictions, the introduction of the minimum wage did not crash the economy, and it works perfectly well in other European countries too. What is clearly wrong is that some benefits are too high - particularly related to housing. For work to pay, it's benefits that need to be cut, not wages. Benefits are a massive problem that they haven't even started to tackle.. yet as usual, it's the old chicken and egg, reduce housing costs to reduce benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olebrum Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 the rate for apprentices jumps 5p to £2.65 an hour WOW that's very good, it's what I was on as an apprentice in 1983 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascii Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 From the graph that was posted, wages appear to rise for a while. It was rhetorical, but not to worry. Median income falls and plateaus - broadly speaking what I would expect to see but not conclusive by any means. Ignore hourly rates, they aren't relevant. If factory X produces 20% widgets more an hour through automation hours available will fall accordingly and wages will inexorably rise a little just not by a factor linked in any way to productivity since productivity isn't a function of the workers labour; it's a function of investment. On your other point of the NMW killing productivity because it destroys the incentive to work hard, not sure I agree. My experience is that if you go the extra mile you might get a few shopping vouchers as a reward (if you're lucky) but it won't translate into better wages. You're just part of the headcount, and senior management will treat you as such. As a member of "senior management" I take your point. It's certainly not the rule that exceeding expectation or standing out in terms of production from the crowd (I'm assuming that's what you mean by going the extra mile) will result in increased pay but in instances where it doesn't your just defining a different local minimum. The incentive again is not there. There are certainly companies that have rigid structures in place and no amount of excess production will result in increased salary. However that is just minimum wage on a smaller scale - in such environments productivity for all approaches a level somewhere near the lowest common denominator. To achieve the best, you need the best people and to recruit those you need to offer rewards commensurate with output/quality etc. In the right environment though, the progress can be rapid. (personally from accounts clerk to UK sales manager of 7m turnover company in 4 years or in terms of salary £8250pa to c £60k pa when I left after about 10 years later). Wish I earned that now. I'm a believer in paying people according to ability; most entrepreneurs would I think say the same. There is a caveat to add though - you do have to ask and be prepared to move on if it doesn't come. It you don't ask you won't get, and your manager's job is to buy your labour as cheaply as possible. Anyway, I digress. I stand by the original statement. Commensense suggest suggests it would be so. I suppose an extreme example would be communism/socialism, from each according, to each according etc. In that instance the rewards are the same irrespective of input. In general I don't think those kind of economies do to well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 the rate for apprentices jumps 5p to £2.65 an hour WOW that's very good, it's what I was on as an apprentice in 1983 Do we know the rate for apprentice Chancellors? Perhaps 2 years into the job but no previous experience. I'm guessing it's probably more than £2.65p an hour and more than it was in 1983. Yet there is massive competition for the job from equally inexperienced casual/itinerant labour so it'll probably be very similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cica Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Why make a big deal of creating an artificial lower bound wage? Why not just concentrate on NOT sending prices into orbit. It can't be efficient to cause a problem and try to solve it at the same time. Edited March 21, 2012 by cica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 For every pint an apprentice drinks they'll think "That's an hour of work gone" No wonder pubs and other businesses that rely on discretionary spending are going to the wall. I dread to think what the real term apprentice wage is, obviously they should just work harder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awaytogo Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 It's a good job benefits are going up 5.2 percent. I would like to see a graph of 40h/week at minimum wage vs JSA/Income support + rent over the last 10 years. Extrapolate the graph and you will see the gap is closing at an alarming rate. soon you will lose money by working. Yep I know many unemployed are better off than working, this increase is just going to make it worse, i cannot understand this or the last government allowing unemployment to be so rewarding compared with working, No wonder there are so many unemployed teenagers with their belly's out, the responsible ones trying to make their way by working cannot afford to do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) . Edited March 22, 2012 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHorseWaits-NoMore Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) ...i cannot understand this or the last government allowing unemployment to be so rewarding compared with working... It's the wages that haven't kept pace with (official) inflation, where as benefits have tried to. Surely we want wages to at least keep pace with real cost of living inflation and not benefit cuts. Fight through the MSMedia propaganda priming us with scapegoats to race to the bottom. edit: if only I could spell Edited March 22, 2012 by DarkHorseWaits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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