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88Crash

Getting Out Of Uk

61 posts in this topic

“If not then why not get out”?

It’s a question, not a statement and obviously aimed at people on a forum I do not know personally!

I joined the forum back in 2005 and since then the UK has gone from bad to worse. Financially I was doing very well, House prices were NOT a problem for me, but I considered it a problem for us as a society, especially younger people

Its now almost 7 years later and the ‘younger people’ I had in mind then were in their early 20’s (friends/relatives) and now most of them in into their 30’s and their situation, mostly.. is not good

You get one life – thats not my opinion = its a fact (exception is... if you believe in reincarnation etc,)

If you are not happy in the UK and you are under 40 (ish) I would say GET OUT

Note I am only saying ‘If YOU are not happy’

I left the UK only 2 years ago, but I wish I did it 10 years sooner

Not saying its easy, not saying anyone should do it and I’m not saying where anyone should go

But can anyone tell me any trend in the UK that looks like its improving over the next 10 years and I’m not just talking about financial or house prices – 10 years is a hell of a lot of years to waste, not being happy and sadly I am speaking about myself here as well as many others I know

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Getting out of the UK and travelling around the world can be an admirable thing but you still need money to do it. What if you have no money to get out?

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where did you go to?

and were you in the south or the north of the UK before?

London for 38 years - Surrey for 10 years and Cape Town for last 2 years

I wouldn't recommend South Africa for everyone for sure and depending on individual circumstances EU alternatives are far easier

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Getting out of the UK and travelling around the world can be an admirable thing but you still need money to do it. What if you have no money to get out?

You need to make a plan!

If you would like to leave the UK but have no money (believe me I know!) then rushing off somewhere is a bad plan

If you need to save up or get some extra training to set yourself up before you go, it will probably take a few years?

But at least you have a plan

I’m being very simplistic, but for the sake of example, Australia needed Brit plumbers a few years back (this may have changed, use the Internet, research and be ahead of the curve)

Within reason anyone can become a plumber given a bit of time, even if you have to do an extra job in a restaurant to pay for the course, etc.

I can’t stress enough, I am not saying its easy and frankly if you are over a certain age, its almost impossible, but if you are young enough and not happy in the UK, what do you have to lose?

PS "The what do you have to lose" is not aimed at you = generalisation

Edited by 88Crash

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This is the one big thing on my plate right now. Never travelled prior to when I started work and since then been to Germany, France, Spain, Egypt, Austria. States next year. The UK yob culture is awful and house prices are ridiculous. That being said, I just spent a week in Munich on my own. It was great and I almost miss the place already, but it WAS lonely. I suppose I've always been around friends and family and so it's making me think somewhat. A move abroad would be so advantageous though, I reckon... Part of me thinks if I stay at my current employer for yonks I'll be well-placed to 'move up' but now I don't even know if I want that extra stress for the money (which wont be THAT much more). Plus I don't think it works like that - need to move for more opportunity. Moving to Germany would allow me to speak another language (hopefully), give me worldly perspectives, see how the German engineers work etc etc. Girlfriend of 4 years is dead against it. In fact so much so that it would end our relationship if I did move there. I'm still only 27, mind... Did you move to Cape Town with family?

You DO only live once, of course. It makes me think about a lot of things. I enjoy my job but I like the idea of trying different jobs, too. I would love to move abroad and also change what I do!

The yob culture in the UK is awful (see my threads in off topic). Luckily in Scotland housing isn't AS expensive as elsewhere. Sometimes I think... if I could pay a place off up here then outgoings would reduce massively and you'd be set up, financially. The weather is freezing, though...!

Coming back to buying here. Imagine paying some place off. Some of the happiest folks I know have few money worries. Income can then be used to go on big holidays or whatever, you'd still have lifelong friends and family around you etc. On the other hand.. .despite the downside of all the costs involved and most likely renting it out, there's the prospect of 'growing' yourself and moving away. But apart from moving for a job, what would there be to do in other country where the language isn't British. Would be pretty isolating? Perhaps not! I'm guessing you'd really need to get a support network going, find friends there and probably get a girlfriend. Otherwise lots of nights in on your own!

EDIT - all the 'better the devil you know' argument. At least I know the downsides here, I know I have my doctor, dentist, the NHS etc. I know how it all works. At the same time I have never hated the place more lol - it is rancid and deeply unfair. You can see there's a war raging in my mind right now....!! (Same with the war with whether to continue doing engineering or not as the money really isn't there despite it being a difficult and productive job).

Edited by guitarman001

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London for 38 years - Surrey for 10 years and Cape Town for last 2 years

I wouldn't recommend South Africa for everyone for sure and depending on individual circumstances EU alternatives are far easier

SA, gated communities and handguns in the glovebox. Sorry, not for me.

Had this discussion a few times on this forum. Currently living on the East coast of Scotland, few k above national average wage, and loving it.

Lived a few places in my life, albeit molly-coddled by the army, and Scotland is the best place for me.

Enjoy the rest of your life, that's for everybody btw!

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What is it about Scotland that does it for you? And were you born here (just out of interest!). What part of East Scotland - East Lothian?

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The UK is now pretty much a corrupt, lazy, chav invested sh1thole, where the few decent hard-working folk left get shat on from all sides and above.

A product of EU human right mantra, socialist all inclusive - hey-lets-encourage-all-the-fuktards-to-have-four-kids-each-and-live-of-the-state-forever short sighted thinking.

To live in a society is a privilege, not a right and if you are not contributing something whether it is money or labour or love, then you have no part in it and should fvck off and live in Brussels with all the other useless tossers

<Rustles Mail in derision >

The answer is a NO by the way, but Yoko won't leave and let's face it where can you go where the tentacles of confused socialism haven't poisoned the water.

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The UK is now pretty much a corrupt, lazy, chav invested sh1thole, where the few decent hard-working folk left get shat on from all sides and above.

A product of EU human right mantra, socialist all inclusive - hey-lets-encourage-all-the-fuktards-to-have-four-kids-each-and-live-of-the-state-forever short sighted thinking.

To live in a society is a privilege, not a right and if you are not contributing something whether it is money or labour or love, then you have no part in it and should fvck off and live in Brussels with all the other useless tossers

<Rustles Mail in derision >

The answer is a NO by the way, but Yoko won't leave and let's face it where can you go where the tentacles of confused socialism haven't poisoned the water.

New York is nice I hear

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I'm fairly sure happiness is a state of mind.

2004-2007 working like dogs saving money, takeaways, 2 holidays abroad (mostly because wife had never gone before), usually bored after the first week there. Buy a game every month, a new gadget every year.

2008-2011 Finally learned to partner dance (took 2 years before to get good at it lol), out up to 3 times a week dancing to live bands and quite a bit of beer, 7 mini holidays at cheap festivals/chalet events. Cancelled the tv license.

Finances

2004-2007 both on £23 hr

2009 one income £24k

2010 one income £11k

2011 £24k + £12k

2004-2007 was working too hard, lots of holidays abroad, yet totally focused on overpaying.

2009 Was fairly depressing out of work for a year, money perceived to be too tight, kept overpaying regardless.

2010 I got a job, wife lost hers, we thought money was tight before try £11k lol. Dumped overpaying, all food cooked at home, takeaway every 2 weeks. Beer became a huge treat. Strangely I was working in a non office environment .... and was happier. My happiness level was higher than ever, no commute, no stupid megalomaniac boss talking shit all day, out of the rat race look what i got at the weekend crap.

Happiness wise I would say 2011 wins, going out loads, mortgage half paid off. Social dancing seems to have a placebo that lasts 2 days. Most the people that seem unhappy are the relentless keeping up with the Jones's, latest gadget, lots of home movies drink at home, preoccupied with the number of bedrooms types.

So I would say moving country has no effect, if not a negative effect on happiness (if you actually have a social circle lol). Even with your household income in tatters, 'Armageddon' sirens going off for the last 2 years, while standing at a sweet shop wondering if you should buy that 55p chocolate bar, being happy is possible.

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Good post, pathfinder!!

Would be interested to hear more about the dancing! I used to do salsa with a Colombian I used to date and it was fun.

Edited by guitarman001

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If you have any social capital (family, friends, business relationships etc) in the community in which you are living, you'd need pretty big reasons to move and write it off. And if you've failed to build up that capital so far in a country where you speak the language, have connections, understand the culture and law - what chance do you have on the side of the planet?

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This is the one big thing on my plate right now.

This is the one big thing on my plate right now. Never travelled prior to when I started work and since then been to Germany, France, Spain, Egypt, Austria. States next year.

ME: At 27 it sounds like you have been lucky so far to have had those experiences

The UK yob culture is awful and house prices are ridiculous.

ME: Its beyond a joke, I live in one of the worlds most dangerous countries and go back to the UK a few times a year – I get closer to potential violence more in the UK than SA, at least in SA we can protect ourselves and we know the rules and a lot of the extreme violence is a poverty/Africa thing – the UK is one of the worlds richest countries FFS

That being said, I just spent a week in Munich on my own. It was great and I almost miss the place already, but it WAS lonely. I suppose I've always been around friends and family and so it's making me think somewhat.

ME: It is a serious consideration and unless you have few friends and family, it kind of goes with the territory – it is easier nowadays with Skype/cheap phone calls and especially in you locate in Germany - you are only 2 hours away

A move abroad would be so advantageous though, I reckon... Part of me thinks if I stay at my current employer for yonks I'll be well-placed to 'move up' but now I don't even know if I want that extra stress for the money (which wont be THAT much more). Plus I don't think it works like that - need to move for more opportunity. Moving to Germany would allow me to speak another language (hopefully), give me worldly perspectives, see how the German engineers work etc etc. Girlfriend of 4 years is dead against it. In fact so much so that it would end our relationship if I did move there. I'm still only 27, mind... Did you move to Cape Town with family?

ME: No – on my own – far too much detail to put into a forum post, but you are only 27, lets say you make that move and lets say in 10 years time you decide to come back to the UK? At least you would have done what you are thinking of doing rather than the “What could have been stuff”?

You DO only live once, of course. It makes me think about a lot of things. I enjoy my job but I like the idea of trying different jobs, too. I would love to move abroad and also change what I do!

ME: I don’t want to be presumptuous, but you are more or less answering your own question – You need to go for it I reckon, give it a few years and only then will you know if it was the right move for you, if its is not i.e. you miss family and friends too much – come back!

The yob culture in the UK is awful (see my threads in off topic). Luckily in Scotland housing isn't AS expensive as elsewhere. Sometimes I think... if I could pay a place off up here then outgoings would reduce massively and you'd be set up, financially. The weather is freezing, though...!

ME: Google Cape Town weather yourself – I don’t want to rub it in

PS Health care in most part of the world is fine - often as good//better than NHS - you need to factor in health insurance, but remember the NHS is not free - you pay for it through UK taxes

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SA, gated communities and handguns in the glovebox. Sorry, not for me.

Had this discussion a few times on this forum. Currently living on the East coast of Scotland, few k above national average wage, and loving it.

Lived a few places in my life, albeit molly-coddled by the army, and Scotland is the best place for me.

Enjoy the rest of your life, that's for everybody btw!

You too for sure – as long as you can put up with the cold and I love Scotland but being a ‘soft southerner’ I struggle with the cold, in fact thinking about Cape Town is about as far south as you can go before reaching the Antartic

Gated communities etc, are a reality in some parts of SA for sure, but not where I live

A bit like the part of Scotland where you live bears no relation to London, Manchester or Birmingham, even though it’s still in the UK

You said you spent time overseas in the forces – a straight question - not trying to catch you out, but have you ever been to South Africa?

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If you have any social capital (family, friends, business relationships etc) in the community in which you are living, you'd need pretty big reasons to move and write it off. And if you've failed to build up that capital so far in a country where you speak the language, have connections, understand the culture and law - what chance do you have on the side of the planet?

not sure why youd have to write that so called capital off, are you meant to disown your freinds, family and even bussiness relationships (depending on your profession) as soon as you cross a bit of water? i doubt there are many considering moving to outer mongolia

Edited by Tamara De Lempicka

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As someone who is now making active plans to emigrate but wasn't motivated to do it primarily for economic reasons, my perspective is that those who claim it is a no brainer are oversimplifying the issue. There are lots of complex issues involved, and I am anticipating that there is going to be a certain amount of emotional stress involved in settling in a different culture and society (albeit in my case a relatively similar one, compared to some places I could have gone), where basically you are the immigrant and it's you that their BNP types are going to have in their sights.

The reason I'm going is that I'm engaged to an American, a hospital doctor currently living in Fairbanks, AK but originally from the 'Inland Empire' of southern California, which is where we're both making plans to relocate to as of next autumn. I'm a university lecturer (in modern European history) - we were introduced by a mutual acquaintance while I was visiting Fairbanks on work. We spent six months or so researching the legal and economic situations carefully in coming to a decision as to whether it was her or me who would relocate across the Atlantic, and for reasons others have outlined above decided on it being me who would move. These are essentially that our combined job prospects in SoCal are, as an overall package, a better picture than they would be here (she would effectively be demoted to a junior doctor while taking more exams, and in the current HE environment my chances of promotion are close to zero), with a combination of my savings and the equity she has in her house we could buy a three-bedroom house in a reasonably pleasant of the area we're looking at outright and with no mortgage, her extended family would all be nearby, crime is lower and the cost of living (including tax) is a lot lower relative to what our combined income is likely to be and even the worst performing state schools in SoCal are probably on a par with the better comprehensives here.

But that doesn't mean that there won't be disadvantges: time consuming and expensive to maintain contact with my family (and vice-versa), the potential burning of boats if I ever want to return to the UK (e.g. if we decide we want to do that in retirement), given that I won't have made NI payments for many years and thus the pension situation will be precarious, a wait of many years before I can become a citizen of the country I'm living in, and the general sense of constantly being a guest in someone else's home, in a metaphorical sense, and a feeling of constantly having to be in 'When in Rome' mode. Nevertheless, the objective case for my making the move is overwhelming, which is why we're doing it this way, but I'm certainly not anticipating it to be a complete bed of roses; just one with fewer thorns in it than if we were trying to start our married life in Yorkshire.

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If you have any social capital (family, friends, business relationships etc) in the community in which you are living, you'd need pretty big reasons to move and write it off. And if you've failed to build up that capital so far in a country where you speak the language, have connections, understand the culture and law - what chance do you have on the side of the planet?

I had a big reason, small family which helps make the move and I’m only 10,000KM’s away from them or 12 hours or approx £1,000 (all factors)

The reasons to move away from UK are many, complex and very individual

One thing that has helped my change is paying approx one third of the price for my home in SA compared to the UK

Its not the most important thing in life for sure, but IMO far too many people in UK are so badly affected by house prices, the knock on effect is ridiculous

Even people I know that have made a fortune out of HPI are now getting f*cked over because their kids can’t leave home – ironic if you think about it?

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not sure why youd have to write that so called capital off, are you meant to disown your freinds, family and even bussiness relationships (depending on your profession) as soon as you cross a bit of water? i doubt there are many considering moving to outer mongolia

If I am honest I now make more of an attempt to see family and friends when I am back in theUK than I did when I lived there (likewise with phone calls)

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What is it about Scotland that does it for you? And were you born here (just out of interest!). What part of East Scotland - East Lothian?

First off, I need to be clear, I'm not keen on 30C+ temperatures, and not overly fussed about rain (I've been waterproof so far!).

Born in Dundee mid-sixties. Spent 20 years travelling the world (sometimes!) in the army. Spent a reasonable amount of time in England, Germany and Canada, and tours in the Balkans, Ireland, and Hong Kong. My views on NI and the Balkans could be tainted by people shooting at us, it may be nicer now! Lucky enough to have good friends in Oz, NZ, Canada, France and Spain. Cheap holidays R us!

In the end, I always feel that skin tingle sensation when I first see the coast of Scotland through a plane window, or catch a glimpse of the Law Hill coming along the A90.

"What is it about Scotland"? As you (hopefully) know it can be the most spectacular country in the world, and it's mostly within a 3 hour drive from my flat. It's motorcycling heaven for 8 months of the year. I know you have bad experiences with the local neds, but in my experience there is nothing that compares to a night of self-depreciating, no-holds-barred banter in a Scottish gathering, boozer or house party. Scots outwith the big cities are the best in the world, if they like you! I've had people give me they're childs bed for two nights in a row on Skye because the ferry couldn't sail due to the weather. I had an old dearie allow me into her home (I'm 6'2", 16 stone and had full biker leathers on at the time) because the public toilets were closed in Thurso. She then insisted all 4 of us came in for tea and biscuits! I could go on and on :)

In the end, it can be expressed in two sentences. My family and friends are here, kith and kin. Secondly, and it's something you either understand or you don't, I'm Scottish to the core, and no ar$e in the world will take that away from me.

Hope that makes sense!

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As someone who is now making active plans to emigrate but wasn't motivated to do it primarily for economic reasons, my perspective is that those who claim it is a no brainer are oversimplifying the issue. There are lots of complex issues involved, and I am anticipating that there is going to be a certain amount of emotional stress involved in settling in a different culture and society (albeit in my case a relatively similar one, compared to some places I could have gone), where basically you are the immigrant and it's you that their BNP types are going to have in their sights.

I hope I didn't imply it was a no brainer - far from it

Its a big move, but I think the logic is quite simple

Look at where you are now - look at the alternatives and like all things in life, its pro's and con's

if the pro's outweigh the con's - then its worth some serious consideration

back to my OP, I follow UK news because I have UK business

Is the UK on a downward trend or is it just me?

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I am happy in the UK.

I live in a nice part of the country, in a vibrant city within a nice safe middle class area. I have lots of friends and family near, lots of hobbies, a decent low stress job running a small business.

My only gripe is probably the weather, although that doesn't seem to bother me anymore and is much more preferable to some hot hellhole like Australia (lived there and NZ, lots of Brits head to these places but the geographical isolation and complete lack of culture really gets to people, even the uncultured ones - and the house prices in both these countries is worse than the UK!).

The UK is what you make it.

If you don't like the under class then get a better job, study or whatever and move to an affluent area, trust me you rarely see them and you can happily exist in a comfortable middle class bubble surrounded by respectable folk. Don't watch the trashy chav TV either, that can bring you down too.

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I had a big reason, small family which helps make the move and I’m only 10,000KM’s away from them or 12 hours or approx £1,000 (all factors)

The reasons to move away from UK are many, complex and very individual

One thing that has helped my change is paying approx one third of the price for my home in SA compared to the UK

Its not the most important thing in life for sure, but IMO far too many people in UK are so badly affected by house prices, the knock on effect is ridiculous

Well this is what it mostly comes down to I think. There's no escaping the devastating effect of unaffordable housing. It's the single biggest expense for most people, and it's a life changer. If you can't afford a home, you literally face a 2nd rate life dealing with relative poverty IMO.

For me it was always an easy decision anyway. I wanted to leave the UK long before it dawned on me how f*cked I really was staying here. I travelled as a kid, and once your eyes are opened there's no going back. Add to that in my family it's very normal to live abroad. My own parents worked in the middle east, my sister works and travels all over the world. One cousin lives in SA, another in Canada, and another in Ireland. I have other relatives in Portugal also.

So really it's no big deal. In reality you're always just a plane flight away, and these days video calls are so easy. Do your sums and realise buying a house outright will improve your financial outlook so much that the cost of a flight becomes an irrelevance ;)

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You too for sure – as long as you can put up with the cold and I love Scotland but being a ‘soft southerner’ I struggle with the cold, in fact thinking about Cape Town is about as far south as you can go before reaching the Antartic

Gated communities etc, are a reality in some parts of SA for sure, but not where I live

A bit like the part of Scotland where you live bears no relation to London, Manchester or Birmingham, even though it’s still in the UK

You said you spent time overseas in the forces – a straight question - not trying to catch you out, but have you ever been to South Africa?

No, you have me there. Just 2nd hand accounts from friends etc. The only service time I had in Africa was a 6-week deployment to Somalia to learn from the yanks, their air transportation techniques were far superior to ours at the time. I've also been to Morocco for a holiday, nice a bit hot B)

Edited by AThirdWay

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First off, I need to be clear, I'm not keen on 30C+ temperatures, and not overly fussed about rain (I've been waterproof so far!).

In the end, it can be expressed in two sentences. My family and friends are here, kith and kin. Secondly, and it's something you either understand or you don't, I'm Scottish to the core, and no ar$e in the world will take that away from me.

Hope that makes sense!

Makes perfect sense, although would you agree that your lifestyle (meant with envy - not sarcasm) is not typical of the bulk of the UK population?

My brother in law is Scottish BTW, from your neck of the woods

Funnily enough most Blacks in South Africa are quite nice apart from the ones that want to shoot us - some things never change, no matter where in the World you live

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