Dave Beans

Rising Numbers Of Private Pupils Forced Into Tough State Schools As Parents Struggle To Afford Fees

45 posts in this topic

Education act 1996 which basically says sufficient education provision needs to be made. But home school is perfectly legal although I believe the bureaucrat reserves

the right to inspect.

I was assuming hotairmail was joking as we are not quite USSR yet.

Nope they do not have the right to inspect, they can request a meeting and examples of work being done but the LEA cannot force anything unless they suspect abuse and would still need proof.

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+1 I'm a strong believer in grouping classes by ability from a young age - you've already set out the advantages, the disadvantages are labelling children as 'failures' and grouping all the worst children together would make it rather difficult to teach them anything since the worst children are often the most disruptive. Nevertheless, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

My girlfirend is a teacher in state primary school year 4 and believes her current class are about a year behind on average and this is partly due to the extreme disruption caused by one special little boy who attends 2 days a week;. If the parents of the other children knew that, I'm sure they would wholeheartedly agree with me.

What's the little darling getting up to then? If the kids are behind a whole year because 40% of their time is being shared with him/her...

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Education act 1996 which basically says sufficient education provision needs to be made. But home school is perfectly legal although I believe the bureaucrat reserves

the right to inspect.

I was assuming hotairmail was joking as we are not quite USSR yet.

OK - I missed the irony.

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I'm no expert of the education system, having left school long ago, but am led to understand that a major cause of the problem in being able to achieve high standards is that (at secondary school at least) pupils of all abilities are lumped together in classes at random? There is no 'streaming' by ability? and teachers have to structure/deliver their lessons to cater for the ineviatble large range of abilities/aptitudes and also enthusiasm (or lack of!) of individual students. I belive it's called 'differentiation'?

In my day, at O-level age, classes were streamed according to ability - and that was a comprehensive school.

I understand that this is still done in private schools, and probably plays a non-trivial part in their being able to churn out higher grades in higher numbers - as pupils with interest/aptitude are not distracted/dragged down/led astray by their, no doubt nice, but less able/cooperative pupils.

Even in the poorest, most deprived areas their will be capable, intelligent and willing to learn pupils with all the right sort of values instilled in them. Surely if they were placed in appropriate classes then even poor performing schools, often in deprived areas, would perform even better.

The less academically inclined shoudl not be forced to learn E=mc2 and such like and have whatever interests/aptitudes they do have identified early on - and pushed in that direction as deemed appropriate.

Thus, all these 'unfortunate' academically inclined Tarquins and Jemimas of the world would not have to end up sitting next to all the propsective army cannon fodder.

I went to a school operating that system, although the headmaster insisted on calling it 'bi-lateral' (or somesuch) to differentiate it from comprehensive, which was just coming in, & where there was no streaming for the first 3 years.

I have never seen the problem with this system. Since the streams co-exist, it was possible for pupils to move up, which occasionally happened, or down, which I don't recall ever occurring. The top two streams were called grammar streams, & were expected to take 7 or more 'O' levels, children in lower streams would take varying numbers depending on aptitude.

I never noticed any variations in academic ability causing friction; of much greater import was physical attractiveness &, as a hierarchical marker between the boys, sporting prowess.

In adult life I tried teaching for a while. I found it impossible. I taught at a school catering for 13 - 18 year olds where the first 2 years were mixed ability classes. Pitching a lesson to them was a nightmare; the more able were bored & drifted away, while those who found it difficult needed constant attention &/or were a continual source of disruption.

One class I found a dream to teach. They were my biggest (36 I think) but, because, by sheer luck, they were of similar ability, I had no problems getting the level right.

I really cannot see any disadvantages to a streamed comprehensive system, as operated where I was taught. Why it always has to be separate Grammar & Secondary Moderns, or fully mixed Comprehensives, I fail to understand.

Edited by cock-eyed octopus

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Children are sorted into sets and streams from the age of 6 to 18

I don't think that is generally true - may be mostly true at the older end, but I know of many counter-examples. Pre-12 setting is actually very uncommon from what I can see.

Separately, I went to a comp in the 70s that didn't stream anyone for anything and it was an utter disaster. There were loads of smart kids there who failed pretty much everything due to chaotic classes and teachers who spent what time they had with the lower ability kids. Mixed ability teaching at anything other than the youngest ages is a catastrophe.

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Oh no poor Theobold & Tarquin will have to mingle with Dave & Pete, poor soles!! :P

What have their shoes got to do with it?

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What have their shoes got to do with it?

Well at least you can tell I weren't privately educated! Sorry my bad.... SOULS!

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I don't think that is generally true - may be mostly true at the older end, but I know of many counter-examples. Pre-12 setting is actually very uncommon from what I can see.

With kids at school my experience is as follows:

State primary doesn't stream by class but does within the class for teh core subjects - kids will sit in different groups by ability and get different tasks depending on ability. Also have additional classes for the really exception from each year, and a remedial group.

State secondary school streams from year 8 (second year in old school parlance).

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My heart bleeds. They've already made a pot from ZIRP off my effin' back, what more do they want?

Next!

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Generally children are pretty fair and don't take account of where you come from.

Really? I must have been unlucky with my school. Got to say I disliked most of the kids I was stuck with post-13 because of streaming and being from a much poorer social class than most of the others in the class. School in general like 13 years of a prison sentence from what I remember. Very glad when I finally left.

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Education act 1996 which basically says sufficient education provision needs to be made. But home school is perfectly legal although I believe the bureaucrat reserves

the right to inspect.

I was assuming hotairmail was joking as we are not quite USSR yet.

Hold yer horses...I was saying in addition to normal school. I've got to work during the day (if I have a job!).

One on one in addition to school is effective. My dad did it with me and I do it with my girlfriend now too. I definitely plan to teach my children writing, maths, science, and IT several hours a week. I don't think it's done very well in schools.

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Hold yer horses...I was saying in addition to normal school. I've got to work during the day (if I have a job!).

One on one in addition to school is effective. My dad did it with me and I do it with my girlfriend now too. I definitely plan to teach my children writing, maths, science, and IT several hours a week. I don't think it's done very well in schools.

It's called being a good parent, on the girlfriend front I wouldn't hold out much hope of it lasting if your idea of a fun evening is playing teacher unless of course this is a bit of code for a good spanking ......

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Hold yer horses...I was saying in addition to normal school. I've got to work during the day (if I have a job!).

One on one in addition to school is effective. My dad did it with me and I do it with my girlfriend now too. I definitely plan to teach my children writing, maths, science, and IT several hours a week. I don't think it's done very well in schools.

Any parent with a child in a state secondary school has to spend enormous amounts of time/effort and/or money otherwise their kids will sink without a trace.

Ditto state A level college.

Sadly I could write a book on this subject.

:blink:

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Most schools stream, but the problem with streaming is that the majority of the times it's a method to focus resources on a particular group rather than actually helping individuals.

The middle ranking students will get most resources to get them up to c level standard. The lower groups will just be screwed over and expected to fail, and the higher level groups will be similar to the middle group. Then they wonder why the lower group can't get jobs or progress in education.

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What is really needed is a individual approach with access to the same resources as everyone else. Having trouble with certain formula, well we can go over that some more. Your finding that equation easy, well that's move on. Etc. I think people would be surprised on how people change on different topics within the same subject. Lower group people might be really good at some parts, but really bad at others and the same is true for higher group people. What matters is what stage they got tested.

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