Dave Beans

Rising Numbers Of Private Pupils Forced Into Tough State Schools As Parents Struggle To Afford Fees

45 posts in this topic

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2108465/Rising-numbers-private-pupils-forced-tough-state-schools-parents-struggle-afford-fees.html

[quote]
Rising numbers of pupils taken out of private schools by parents who can no longer afford the fees are ending up in tough comprehensives as competition increases for top grammars and academies. One admissions appeals service said enquiries from parents whose child has been assigned to an unpopular or distant school after leaving an independent are up by half on last year.

Overall as many as 100,000 parents across the country face disappointment today when local councils announce secondary school allocations for September. Around one in six families are expected to miss out on their first-choice school on National Offer Day, rising to more than half in parts of London and the South-East. With top secondaries – including grammars, academies, faith schools and flagship government free schools – up to nine times over-subscribed, soaring numbers of parents are expected to appeal.

The competition for these schools is presenting problems for parents forced to abandon independent education for financial reasons whose children, it is claimed, could arrive at their new school ‘with a big target on their back’.

Like Will in the hit TV comedy the Inbetweeners they face a struggle to fit in, especially if sent to schools miles from their friends. Matt Richards, a senior partner in School Appeals Services which helps families challenge admissions decisions, said it had been contacted by 50 per cent more parents than last year who had left the fee-paying sector and were unhappy with the new school.

‘They can’t afford to pay school fees so have had to give notice,’ he said.

‘They thought their child would get into the local secondary school but instead are sent to a school three miles away. It’s very difficult. A child coming from a private school will turn up with a big target on their back.’

He added that some children were ‘sitting at home’ rather than attend the school they had been allocated. The number of pupils in private education dropped for the third year in a row last year. Meanwhile up to nine pupils are vying for each place at England’s over-subscribed academies and free schools, making them as popular as leading faith and grammar schools.

Haberdashers’ Aske’s Hatcham College, an academy in south-east London, attracted 1,517 applications for 161 places, while King Solomon Academy in Westminster drew 480 for 60 slots. The West London Free School, set up by journalist and author Toby Young to provide a grammar school-style education at a comprehensive, attracted 1,070 applications for just 120 places. Tamsin Kelly, of parenting website Parentdish.co.uk, said: ‘National Offer Day is a nightmare for parents in over-subscribed areas.’

Schools Minister Nick Gibb said: ‘There are still too many pupils trying to get into too few good schools. Our school reforms will raise standards and create more good schools.’
[/quote] Edited by Dave Beans

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[quote name='Dave Beans' timestamp='1330599083' post='3274513']
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2108465/Rising-numbers-private-pupils-forced-tough-state-schools-parents-struggle-afford-fees.html
[/quote]

I'm no expert of the education system, having left school long ago, but am led to understand that a major cause of the problem in being able to achieve high standards is that (at secondary school at least) pupils of all abilities are lumped together in classes at random? There is no 'streaming' by ability? and teachers have to structure/deliver their lessons to cater for the ineviatble large range of abilities/aptitudes and also enthusiasm (or lack of!) of individual students. I belive it's called 'differentiation'?

In my day, at O-level age, classes were streamed according to ability - and that was a comprehensive school.

I understand that this is still done in private schools, and probably plays a non-trivial part in their being able to churn out higher grades in higher numbers - as pupils with interest/aptitude are not distracted/dragged down/led astray by their, no doubt nice, but less able/cooperative pupils.

Even in the poorest, most deprived areas their will be capable, intelligent and willing to learn pupils with all the right sort of values instilled in them. Surely if they were placed in appropriate classes then even poor performing schools, often in deprived areas, would perform even better.

The less academically inclined shoudl not be forced to learn E=mc2 and such like and have whatever interests/aptitudes they do have identified early on - and pushed in that direction as deemed appropriate.

Thus, all these 'unfortunate' academically inclined Tarquins and Jemimas of the world would not have to end up sitting next to all the propsective army cannon fodder.

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Generally children are pretty fair and don't take account of where you come from.If you act like a twit you'll
be treated like one.
I work in a School and i'm a twit!.
BS
P.S should read Tw-t (a) sounds more cutting :angry: Edited by brocken spectre

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[quote name='anonguest' timestamp='1330602208' post='3274564']
I'm no expert of the education system, having left school long ago, but am led to understand that a major cause of the problem in being able to achieve high standards is that (at secondary school at least) pupils of all abilities are lumped together in classes at random?
[/quote]

My son's school is streamed, but it's a foundation school. Not sure if bog-standard comps are allowed to stream or not...

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Are these people who cant afford to send their children to private schools hoping for some sort of subsidy or what? Loads of people cant afford private school, big deal.

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Oh well, labour have achieved their wet dream of forcing more people into comprehensives - shame they did it through the back door by trashing the economy :angry:

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[quote name='anonguest' timestamp='1330602208' post='3274564']
I'm no expert of the education system, having left school long ago, but am led to understand that a major cause of the problem in being able to achieve high standards is that (at secondary school at least) pupils of all abilities are lumped together in classes at random? There is no 'streaming' by ability? and teachers have to structure/deliver their lessons to cater for the ineviatble large range of abilities/aptitudes and also enthusiasm (or lack of!) of individual students. I belive it's called 'differentiation'?
[/quote]

It's up to each school if they do it or not.

In my Mrs' school, the head allows the departments to decide for themselves if they should "stream" or not. Some departments do (Maths) and some don't (Geography) for certain year groups. They have to justify any decisions they have made should things go tits up (results get really bad one year, for example).

The decisions to stream or not are based on established research and studies, and by looking at department or class' past results. Apparently the benefits of mixing the ability of kids is that it encourages the lower ability kids to push themselves. They do this by deliberately sitting a low ability child next to a high ability child.

It's important to say however that it is unusual for classes not be streamed by ability during the latter years of education. I.e. years 7, 8 and 9 might be mixed ability, but 10 and 11 certainly would not as they would be preparing for their GCSEs. However, they will still occasionally put a difficult child into a higher streamed set to focus them even in these years.

Anyway. If a Head has unilaterally decided that all of her departments will not stream, and that all classes will be mixed ability, she would have to explain her decision to the inspectors when they turned up. Edited by Superted187

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increase in lunch money takings, property rich kids going home without trainers and such....whats not too like....propwerty prices might actually go down....

i remember my school not so long ago what a shower.....fights everyday to entertain us, nasty kids, old past it teachers and substitutes to look after us, widespread cheating on coursework etc, standing outside in the rain for two hours a day so the day carers could have a break, not allowed anywhere other than the concrete paved areas in break times, the library always of limits, headmaster having an affair with his secretary.....truly a place of no learning, just like a prison and has now become some kind of academy....

time served hopefully if I'm ever up before a judge for something.....

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[quote name='anonguest' timestamp='1330602208' post='3274564']
I'm no expert of the education system, having left school long ago, but am led to understand that a major cause of the problem in being able to achieve high standards is that (at secondary school at least) pupils of all abilities are lumped together in classes at random? There is no 'streaming' by ability? and teachers have to structure/deliver their lessons to cater for the ineviatble large range of abilities/aptitudes and also enthusiasm (or lack of!) of individual students. I belive it's called 'differentiation'?

In my day, at O-level age, classes were streamed according to ability - and that was a comprehensive school.

I understand that this is still done in private schools, and probably plays a non-trivial part in their being able to churn out higher grades in higher numbers - as pupils with interest/aptitude are not distracted/dragged down/led astray by their, no doubt nice, but less able/cooperative pupils.

Even in the poorest, most deprived areas their will be capable, intelligent and willing to learn pupils with all the right sort of values instilled in them. Surely if they were placed in appropriate classes then even poor performing schools, often in deprived areas, would perform even better.

The less academically inclined shoudl not be forced to learn E=mc2 and such like and have whatever interests/aptitudes they do have identified early on - and pushed in that direction as deemed appropriate.

Thus, all these 'unfortunate' academically inclined Tarquins and Jemimas of the world would not have to end up sitting next to all the propsective army cannon fodder.
[/quote]

+1 I'm a strong believer in grouping classes by ability from a young age - you've already set out the advantages, the disadvantages are labelling children as 'failures' and grouping all the worst children together would make it rather difficult to teach them anything since the worst children are often the most disruptive. Nevertheless, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

My girlfirend is a teacher in state primary school year 4 and believes her current class are about a year behind on average and this is partly due to the extreme disruption caused by one special little boy who attends 2 days a week;. If the parents of the other children knew that, I'm sure they would wholeheartedly agree with me. Edited by Unsafe As Houses

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I know one bloke who went bankrupt...last thing he did was to cut back on the schooling.

He seemed to think he was doing his kids a favour :blink:

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My plan is to send any I'm lucky to have to at least something half decent and teach the important good stuff at home in the evenings. Edited by cica

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[quote name='cica' timestamp='1330606259' post='3274613']
My plan is to send any I'm lucky to have to at least something half decent and teach the important good stuff at home in the evenings.
[/quote]
Yep, home schooling and plenty of social activities/sport is the way to go

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[quote name='cica' timestamp='1330606259' post='3274613']
My plan is to send any I'm lucky to have to at least something half decent and teach the important good stuff at home in the evenings.
[/quote]



You do know that is illegal.

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[quote name='M'lud' timestamp='1330607971' post='3274637']
Yep, home schooling and plenty of social activities/sport is the way to go
[/quote]

Based on what?

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-17204703

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/feb/28/schoolboy-dies-hit-cricket-ball

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[quote name='Superted187' timestamp='1330610104' post='3274667']
Based on what?
[/quote]

Try a Google search on academic results of home-schooled kids. Generally, they do pretty well (not least because they have, almost by definition, dedicated parents. There are of course exceptions - those schooled by fundamentalist Christian nutters who don't want their kids minds polluting by anything that might possibly imply the Bible isn't literal truth, for example.

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http://www.portchester.bournemouth.sch.uk/
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4159990/Pupil-held-after-ball-kills-boy-16-in-school-playground.html

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[quote name='hotairmail' timestamp='1330609427' post='3274652']
You do know that is illegal.
[/quote]

It is not illegal, although plenty of LEA's would have you believe it is but then they are paid £2400 per pupil at primary school so it wouldn't be in their interests to encourage it.

What happened to the voucher scheme that parents were going to be given to spend on the education of their choice ? Plenty of countries give a tax rebate on private schooling, but then they are equally confident that the vast majority wouldn't choose it as the state provision is so good. No doubt that's why GB couldn't stomach the idea, state schools would be getto's within a few years.

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Well this thread takes the biscuit for the max amount of uninformed gobbledegook ever

Nationally 93% of children go to state schools.
Children are sorted into sets and streams from the age of 6 to 18
In areas with the vicious circle of kids being sent to private resulting in state school results falling, anything that brings the motivated families back into the state system will be good for the whole economy

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[quote name='anonguest' timestamp='1330602208' post='3274564']
I'm no expert of the education system, having left school long ago, but am led to understand that a major cause of the problem in being able to achieve high standards is that (at secondary school at least) pupils of all abilities are lumped together in classes at random? There is no 'streaming' by ability? and teachers have to structure/deliver their lessons to cater for the ineviatble large range of abilities/aptitudes and also enthusiasm (or lack of!) of individual students. I belive it's called 'differentiation'?

In my day, at O-level age, classes were streamed according to ability - and that was a comprehensive school.

I understand that this is still done in private schools, and probably plays a non-trivial part in their being able to churn out higher grades in higher numbers - as pupils with interest/aptitude are not distracted/dragged down/led astray by their, no doubt nice, but less able/cooperative pupils.

Even in the poorest, most deprived areas their will be capable, intelligent and willing to learn pupils with all the right sort of values instilled in them. Surely if they were placed in appropriate classes then even poor performing schools, often in deprived areas, would perform even better.

The less academically inclined shoudl not be forced to learn E=mc2 and such like and have whatever interests/aptitudes they do have identified early on - and pushed in that direction as deemed appropriate.

Thus, all these 'unfortunate' academically inclined Tarquins and Jemimas of the world would not have to end up sitting next to all the propsective army cannon fodder.
[/quote]

My comp "setted" students from the 2nd year onwards. They used the 1st year to assess each students ability, then from the 2nd year onwards, each year was split into sets for each subject, so kids of the same ability learnt at the same speed. Those who improved, were moved up.

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Those kids should be glad they can still go to school. It could be the workhouse soon.

[quote]
A leading banker has today advised the government to reduce the minimum working age and allow children of any age to go to work.

The banker said “In today’s high inflationary economy it is absolutely ridiculous that children sit at home while both parents have to work increasingly longer hours to try keep the family solvent”.

“When I was a child my mother was able to stay at home to look after me and my sisters Tabitha and Hortensia but now an increasing number of women have to work. In 1997 when house prices were £60k, a 25 year mortgage at 6% was £380 a month but now the average house costs £160k+ the mortgage has ballooned to £1,030. That extra £650 a month represents an increase of 170%, similar to the rise in house prices. Remember that increase is just on an average house and who wants to live in one only worth that much? These extra mortgage payments are crippling families all over the UK. They are no longer able to spend as much money in the economy and the outlook for UK consumption is bleak. While my pay and bonuses are escalating, due to the government diverting money to bankers from savers via low interest rates, I really worry for CEO’s in the retail sector. Where are their future bonuses going to come from, when the public are left with little or no disposable income? How long can the government go on devaluing sterling, so that foreigners can come here to buy things that people in the UK can no longer afford themselves?

“If children went straight to work when leaving school it solves a lot of problems in the UK. There would be a reduction in anti-social behaviour with less children roaming the streets. The money they earn would increase household incomes. Another advantage of children working is that many retired grandparents currently take on child care duties. With children working this childcare would not be necessary so this would free up the grandparents to find work of their own. Even though their own mortgages may be paid up these retirees could contribute a large portion of their new incomes towards their children’s mortgage. All this extra income would mean there be less mortgages underwater and people could even pay a lot more for their next house”

“In order to fully maximise the mortgage paying potential of the higher earning households, the UK should abolish what little financial regulation it still pretends it has. At the moment 70% of mortgages granted in the UK had to have income verified compared to 50% in 2007. However once children were allowed to work, income verification would not be necessary at all, as parents could keep popping out wage earning children to meet any mortgage shortfall. In addition, with life expectancy increasing, if children started working earlier, mortgage terms could be extended to 60 or 70 years, to give them longer to pay their mortgage interest.”

“So what would work would all these children do? Well I would suggest that children cannot start learning about how to get in debt early enough. At the height of the housing boom it became obvious that mortgage broking required little or no skill. Just being able to see that people were not showing signs of rigor mortis was enough to be able to grant them mortgages. Therefore every Primary school could open up it’s own mortgage broking office for their pupils. This could be manned 247 on a shift system, to keep the children gainfully employed. ”

“I feel very confident that the dark clouds that have gathered over the UK, would be blown away if my ideas were adopted. It doesn’t matter how many hours, days, weeks, months, years you have to work, if people know that when they get home and go to bed, those four walls are worth a lot more. With another housing boom on top of our current housing boom, the UK would then have the largest banks in the world and the public would be safe in the knowledge that banks of that size are too big to fail”.

[/quote]

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[quote name='hotairmail' timestamp='1330609427' post='3274652']
You do know that is illegal.
[/quote]

Which law would that be?

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Something tells me this banker hasn't experienced a normal upbringing, with sisters called Tabitha and Hortensia. I can imagine they have horse like features.

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[quote name='tricksters' timestamp='1330623049' post='3274811']
Which law would that be?
[/quote]

Education act 1996 which basically says sufficient education provision needs to be made. But home school is perfectly legal although I believe the bureaucrat reserves
the right to inspect.

I was assuming hotairmail was joking as we are not quite USSR yet.

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