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SarahBell

Workhouses

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Was something on radio about someone's new book about the history of the poor... Can't remember what the book was though.

Up to 1834 the poor were treated quite well. Money raised locally was given to them. Orphans, the elderly and single parents were well looked after.

Laws changed in 1834 - perhaps because of a rise in the numbers of unemployed looking for help.


Someone's shared this link elsewhere:


http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Oldham/


A parliamentary report of 1777 records workhouses in operation in Oldham (for up to 60 inmates), Middleton (40) and Chedderton [Chadderton] (3).

Without knowing population numbers for that year it's impossible to know %

Mr Howlett, Vicar of Dunmow, in Essex, estimated the population in 1780 at 8,691,000


Would poorhouses save the govt money these days? Edited by SarahBell

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[quote name='SarahBell' timestamp='1330261445' post='3271171']Was something on radio about someone's new book about the history of the poor... Can't remember what the book was though.

Up to 1834 the poor were treated quite well. Money raised locally was given to them. Orphans, the elderly and single parents were well looked after.

Laws changed in 1834 - perhaps because of a rise in the numbers of unemployed looking for help.


Someone's shared this link elsewhere:


http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Oldham/


A parliamentary report of 1777 records workhouses in operation in Oldham (for up to 60 inmates), Middleton (40) and Chedderton [Chadderton] (3).

Without knowing population numbers for that year it's impossible to know %

Mr Howlett, Vicar of Dunmow, in Essex, estimated the population in 1780 at 8,691,000


Would poorhouses save the govt money these days?[/quote]

Workhouses wont work as there aren't really many manual labour manufacturing jobs these days.... it's mostly mechanised and the stuff that isn't is done in china where land is cheaper.

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[quote name='SarahBell' timestamp='1330261445' post='3271171']
Would poorhouses save the govt money these days?
[/quote]

Ever thought of a career in the Conservative party?

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[quote name='What's'isname' timestamp='1330267059' post='3271218']
Ever thought of a career in the Conservative party?
[/quote]

Shes totally bonkers!

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[quote name='MrTReturns' timestamp='1330267321' post='3271224']
The book may have been [i]The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists[/i], a novel by Robert Tressell
[/quote]




[color="#FF0000"]someone's new book [/color]

Not exactly a NEW book he died in 1911. Published a few years after that.

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Poverty ... is a most necessary and indispensable ingredient in society, without which nations and communities could not exist in a state of civilisation. It is the lot of man – it is the source of wealth, since without poverty there would be no labour, and without labour there could be no riches, no refinement, no comfort, and no benefit to those who may be possessed of wealth

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[quote name='witsended' timestamp='1330268322' post='3271237']
Poverty ... is a most necessary and indispensable ingredient in society, without which nations and communities could not exist in a state of civilisation. It is the lot of man – it is the source of wealth, since without poverty there would be no labour, and without labour there could be no riches, no refinement, no comfort, and no benefit to those who may be possessed of wealth
[/quote]

Ah yes, Patrick Colqhoun, inherited a pile of money and then added to it by buying into slave plantations in the U.S.

I'm sure he's just the sort of chap who'd fit right into the modern economy.

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[quote name='SarahBell' timestamp='1330261445' post='3271171']

Would poorhouses save the govt money these days?
[/quote]

We will have them soon in the form of dormitories at Tesco and other supermarkets.

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[quote name='Hectors House' timestamp='1330267183' post='3271219']
Shes totally bonkers!
[/quote]


98% bonkers thank you very much.

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[quote name='SarahBell' timestamp='1330270546' post='3271263']
98% bonkers thank you very much.
[/quote]

That 2% makes all the difference. It means you know you have an issue but it's not too late to do something about it. If you had just said "I'm not" we would be worried about the denial.

I was down to 89% but have slipped back up to 97% I've noticed it always goes up when I spend too much time on here.

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[quote name='Democorruptcy' timestamp='1330271400' post='3271278']
That 2% makes all the difference. It means you know you have an issue but it's not too late to do something about it. If you had just said "I'm not" we would be worried about the denial.

I was down to 89% but have slipped back up to 97% I've noticed it always goes up when I spend too much time on here.
[/quote]


A friend mentioned that I may be a little delusional, I was so surprised I nearly fell off my unicorn.

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[quote name='SarahBell' timestamp='1330272201' post='3271293']
A friend mentioned that I may be a little delusional, I was so surprised I nearly fell off my unicorn.
[/quote]

My minds boggling now. I think I've gone up to 99%

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[quote name='bulltraderpt' timestamp='1330271820' post='3271285']
Agreed, however and there is always a however, what if work was done for the good of the community?
[/quote]

I think some people need to learn a little social history.It is only just 60 years ago the last of these types of hell holes were abolished or shut down for good, though many of the unfortunates held there were just transferred into the large mental or learning difficulties hospitals . I had the privilage to talk to and listen to the stories of some of these people as a young man. It showed me how thin the veneer of civilization is in this country.
We wring our hands at the plight of orphans or others trapped in former Eastern Europe institutions ,often blaming the staff for their inhumanity.
But the same was going on here till twenty odd years ago covered up at the time and since by the destuction of most of the records on the grounds of privacy.

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While we are at it we could add some of those workhouse remedies for 'idleness' to workfare such as Picking Oakum and Crushing Stones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workhouse

[img]http://rewhc.org/graphics/oakum1.jpg[/img]

Verily the knowledge economy brought to life as part of Britains new industrial and technological revolution under the Coalition government

Alternatively you might simply see it as a form of terrorism waged against the poor by the rich

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[quote name='SarahBell' timestamp='1330261445' post='3271171']
Was something on radio about someone's new book about the history of the poor... Can't remember what the book was though.

Up to 1834 the poor were treated quite well. Money raised locally was given to them. Orphans, the elderly and single parents were well looked after.
[/quote]
And our NHS is the Best In The World[tm]. And the Olympics are a Great Benefit to us all[tm]. And housing benefit means we all get to live in the lap of luxury.

The debate about how to deal with the poor, including all the hot topics like whether and how to distinguish between the deserving and undeserving poor, go back a lot further than that. A friend of mine wrote a chapter on the subject in his (history) PhD.

Provision has long been made for poor local people, though of course it was long way from the kind of thing that would be acceptable today - even if you were the unambiguously deserving poor.

If you were not local, or if you were in a community bigger than a village, all such provision might break down leaving you nothing but what you could beg, and always under suspicion (why are you begging here, not in your own community).
[quote]
Laws changed in 1834 - perhaps because of a rise in the numbers of unemployed looking for help.
[/quote]
Increasing numbers, indeed. But I suspect the real crisis they were looking to solve was growing numbers falling 'between the cracks' in the system and getting nothing. They introduced a system designed to be minimal but - crucially - universal.
[quote]
Would poorhouses save the govt money these days?
[/quote]
A better question: who would stand to benefit if "the poor" of today - defined to be those in receipt of state benefits for most or all of their living - were prevented from spending it all on booze and fags? That's what the workhouse (and to a lesser extent its successor in today's homeless hostels) was designed to do, and what today's system utterly fails to do, leading in particular to child poverty.

Sure, I expect some workhouses were indeed sadistically mismanaged as beautifully caricatured by Dickens. But I'm not convinced that he's any more representative of the norms of his times than the Daily Mail is of ours.

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A couple of good documentaries from the past.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI2UNbd7lxY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az2fTYud0us

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[quote name='Democorruptcy' timestamp='1330269723' post='3271258']
We will have them soon in the form of dormitories at Tesco and other supermarkets.
[/quote]

walkabout pubs in the uk allready do this. they are sold to the proles by saying they give jobs to australians travelling in the uk, and thus accomadate the travellers. load of con and nonsense and just away to pay minimum wage less their accomodation above the bars.

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