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Working And On Benefits

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DIdn't someone coin it rather well recently:

"To think people used to abort babies like that... "

That was me ph34r.gif

On my mothers side of the family her brother has just had IVF twins, one disabled, grandchildren now hitting 30, 35 even without having had any children. On my fathers side, grandchildren having healthy children in their twenties.

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This time round the BBC have disabled the comments! cool.gif

based on the fact that almost a half of the UK sociaty is dependent on tax credits/benefits I do not see any possibility of democratic change ...

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so, if at all true, we have a private sector worker now paying tax, but not enough to cover what he gets, so we have 100% wealth destruction in this case.

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so, if at all true, we have a private sector worker now paying tax, but not enough to cover what he gets, so we have 100% wealth destruction in this case.

That's where immigration comes in. As more people in the UK realise full time work doesn't pay and reduce their hours to claim benefits, they become net takers from the state instead of givers. So we need more immigrants to come in and start working to increase the tax revenues. Someone posted a graph the other day of the UK employed dropping but immigrant employment taking up the slack.

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That's where immigration comes in. As more people in the UK realise full time work doesn't pay and reduce their hours to claim benefits, they become net takers from the state instead of givers. So we need more immigrants to come in and start working to increase the tax revenues. Someone posted a graph the other day of the UK employed dropping but immigrant employment taking up the slack.

yeah, but, the immigrant then goes on to have 5 kids and we now have 2 families in 100% wealth destruction.

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yeah, but, the immigrant then goes on to have 5 kids and we now have 2 families in 100% wealth destruction.

That's why you can never reduce immigration once you get in this position, where work is discouraged and saving is demonised. You have to keep them coming in. If you didn't at some point everyone would stand there looking at one another saying "who is going to do the work and pay some taxes?"

I read a population study the other day and Europe's dropped from 520 to 500m but the UK's went up from 61m to 77m.

If you build it they will come....

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That's why you can never reduce immigration once you get in this position, where work is discouraged and saving is demonised. You have to keep them coming in. If you didn't at some point everyone would stand there looking at one another saying "who is going to do the work and pay some taxes?"

I read a population study the other day and Europe's dropped from 520 to 500m but the UK's went up from 61m to 77m.

If you build it they will come....

Like QEasing the population.

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That's where immigration comes in. As more people in the UK realise full time work doesn't pay and reduce their hours to claim benefits, they become net takers from the state instead of givers. So we need more immigrants to come in and start working to increase the tax revenues. Someone posted a graph the other day of the UK employed dropping but immigrant employment taking up the slack.

You think this guy isn't an immigrant (5 kids, living in Luton, named "Ade", tithing 15% of his income to a church . . . )?

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You think this guy isn't an immigrant (5 kids, living in Luton, named "Ade", tithing 15% of his income to a church . . . )?

It doesn't matter what he is. All that matters is we have now passed the point of no return. There are more and more people realising that there is no point in working. There was someone on here the other day saying they had dropped hours from a £45k a year job deliberately to cut their income to £21k and they were no worse off. There are now too many people realising that while benefits are so high, living costs so high, housing costs so high you may as well just rely on the state because you cannot earn enough to be any better off. They think if they can keep house prices up it forces more to keep on working and pay tax but it's going to have the opposite effect, people are just throwing the towel in. It's partly why they are upping the discount on RTB - they want people to buy so they cannot claim housing benefit in the future.

They will try to keep tweaking the benefits but there are now so many reliant on them that it would be political suicide to do too much. So those that work are going to have to pay more and more and we need more immigrants to come and work. The UK is going to be an over populated hellhole with those outside the premier league living permanently on the breadline.

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For every guy like him there's someone getting £80k+ from the state for doing a non job.

one guy I know he is on the 3rd management level from top in a large London council ... 150k pa ... shocking :(

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It doesn't matter what he is. All that matters is we have now passed the point of no return. There are more and more people realising that there is no point in working. There was someone on here the other day saying they had dropped hours from a £45k a year job deliberately to cut their income to £21k and they were no worse off. There are now too many people realising that while benefits are so high, living costs so high, housing costs so high you may as well just rely on the state because you cannot earn enough to be any better off. They think if they can keep house prices up it forces more to keep on working and pay tax but it's going to have the opposite effect, people are just throwing the towel in. It's partly why they are upping the discount on RTB - they want people to buy so they cannot claim housing benefit in the future.

They will try to keep tweaking the benefits but there are now so many reliant on them that it would be political suicide to do too much. So those that work are going to have to pay more and more and we need more immigrants to come and work. The UK is going to be an over populated hellhole with those outside the premier league living permanently on the breadline.

well the current UK deficit is about 11%. so it has to be fixed quite soon ...

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It doesn't matter what he is. All that matters is we have now passed the point of no return.

Have we? That implies that no reform is possible. Avoiding the option of a citizen's wage (my favoured approach), just reduce benefits by less than you gain via working/increased salary. As per my own example, reduce any tax credits I get by 50p for every additional £1 I earn.

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This actually makes me angrier than the other one.

He's on the equivalent of 60K a year.

And he's using my money (I've got two kids and don't get benefits) to pay down his mortgage early? WTF?

The BBC seems to be having a really tough time finding the benefits poster child. Two attempts and both hideous own goals!

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Have we? That implies that no reform is possible. Avoiding the option of a citizen's wage (my favoured approach), just reduce benefits by less than you gain via working/increased salary. As per my own example, reduce any tax credits I get by 50p for every additional £1 I earn.

Policing costs for social unrest aren't cheap.

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This actually makes me angrier than the other one.

He's on the equivalent of 60K a year.

And he's using my money (I've got two kids and don't get benefits) to pay down his mortgage early? WTF?

It is slightly gob-smacking. He sounds like a nice enough bloke, but the fact that he expresses contempt for some benefit claimants, but presumably has no problem with his own status shows a certain logical dissonance...

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It is slightly gob-smacking. He sounds like a nice enough bloke, but the fact that he expresses contempt for some benefit claimants, but presumably has no problem with his own status shows a certain logical dissonance...

Does that mean he's a bit of a James Blunt?

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Policing costs for social unrest aren't cheap.

Where does the social unrest come from in my scenario?

Person on benefits = £x

Person on benefits gets job paying £y

Outcome = £x - (£y/2) + £y

(with the obvious caveat that $x - (£y/2) has a lower limit of 0)

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This actually makes me angrier than the other one.

He's on the equivalent of 60K a year.

And he's using my money (I've got two kids and don't get benefits) to pay down his mortgage early? WTF?

People claiming SMI have been doing that. At one time the rate was 6.08% when the base rate was 0.5%

Tesco and other firms have slaves working for them paid by your taxes.

Government doing mortgage indemnity with it.

Councils are using council tax for 20% FTB deposits to divert your council tax to bankers and house builders

Councils upping RTB discounts

It's obvious our council tax will have to go up isn't it?

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A news story (last year I think it was) stating that apparently there are 9000 people in the public sector on over £120k a year.

Just think of the life time pensions benefits attached to that little pile. <_<

does that include doctors?

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Where does the social unrest come from in my scenario?

Person on benefits = £x

Person on benefits gets job paying £y

Outcome = £x - (£y/2) + £y

(with the obvious caveat that $x - (£y/2) has a lower limit of 0)

Well you seemed to be rewarding work instead of benefits. There are two problems with that. The people now used to benefits won't be happy and where are the jobs coming from? You might be OK in your job but as more people have switched to part time from full time, which of two part time workers is going to leave to allow the other to work more hours? Or why would employers want to pay more per hour when government policy means they don't have to?

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Well you seemed to be rewarding work instead of benefits. There are two problems with that. The people now used to benefits won't be happy and where are the jobs coming from? You might be OK in your job but as more people have switched to part time from full time, which of two part time workers is going to leave to allow the other to work more hours? Or why would employers want to pay more per hour when government policy means they don't have to?

Call me a naive idealistic old fool, but I genuinely believe that most claimants are genuinely caught in the benefit trap. Work will lose them money unless they leap straight to some huge salary. The solution - always take away less than you make - seems a no-brainer.

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http://lmgtfy.com/?q...hild+tax+credit

£2950 for a disabled child pa, + a further £1190 if they are severely disabled.

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Seen quite a few new faces in my Daughters after school art class this week, despite it costing £4 a week. Then it clicked with this, it's the Chav parents who have read this, and it's gone viral in the Chav community that you get more benefits if your child is Artistic ?

:lol:

M

Edited by markyh

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