callaght

Iran Halts Oil Supplies To Uk And France

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Secular western democracy?

What about the USA where belief in an invisible god is a prerequisite for being president and the government is run by the corporate lobbyists? How many atheists without a billion dollars of campaign contributions have ever stood a chance? If you want a taste of religious extremism examine the views of Romney or Santorum.

To suggest that the USA has any more right to have nuclear weapons than Iran because their government is free from religious cranks or more responsive to the will of the people is disingenuous.

Are you seriously comparing the USA to Iran in their adherence to the freedoms of its people or to theological encroachment on the state?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. - The First Amendment of the Constitution of the USA"

I do not dispute that they have their fair share of religidiots but the point I was actually making is that, by definition, the USA is a secular democracy, the Establishment Clause is even clearer "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion", despite the various cranks that may hold office this is enshrined in it's laws and constitution and they are bound by it, can you say Iran has a similar control?

I am struggling to understand how you can seriously not see the difference between the USA and it's allies, who have maintained an equilibrium based on secular democratic discourse, and a theocratic state who's intentions towards its neighbors and ultimately human civilization have been made very clear. If you wish to allow Iran to arm itself then be my guest, but anyone who wants to live in a free and largely secular world must make a stand against it, because if you seriously think they will not use them, then you are the one being naive and disingenuous.

Edited by JustAnotherProle

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I am struggling to understand how you can seriously not see the difference between the USA and it's allies, who have maintained an equilibrium based on secular democratic discourse, and a theocratic state who's intentions towards its neighbors and ultimately human civilization have been made very clear. If you wish to allow Iran to arm itself then be my guest, but anyone who wants to live in a free and largely secular world must make a stand against it, because if you seriously think they will not use them, then you are the one being naive and disingenuous.

It's oversimplifying and is all too common. Take a simple position and apply it regardless of any other factors. I think that it's related to an inability to acknowledge shades of grey. X isn't perfect so treat it exactly the same as Y.

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I am struggling to understand how you can seriously not see the difference between the USA and it's allies, who have maintained an equilibrium based on secular democratic discourse, and a theocratic state who's intentions towards its neighbors and ultimately human civilization have been made very clear. If you wish to allow Iran to arm itself then be my guest, but anyone who wants to live in a free and largely secular world must make a stand against it, because if you seriously think they will not use them, then you are the one being naive and disingenuous.

How about comparing past records:

On the one side you've got the US, which has initiated and/or been involved in countless wars a long way outside its own boundaries, and is the only country to have actually used nuclear weapons in anger.

On the other side you have Iran, which has, within living memory, not been involved in any wars except when defending itself against the US-backed Iraqi attack in the 1980's. And which is constantly being threatened with attack by US-backed Israel.

Who are the bad guys again?

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How about comparing past records:

On the one side you've got the US, which has initiated and/or been involved in countless wars a long way outside its own boundaries, and is the only country to have actually used nuclear weapons in anger.

On the other side you have Iran, which has, within living memory, not been involved in any wars except when defending itself against the US-backed Iraqi attack in the 1980's. And which is constantly being threatened with attack by US-backed Israel.

Who are the bad guys again?

Thank you for illustrating my point about oversimplifying.

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How about comparing past records:

On the one side you've got the US, which has initiated and/or been involved in countless wars a long way outside its own boundaries, and is the only country to have actually used nuclear weapons in anger.

On the other side you have Iran, which has, within living memory, not been involved in any wars except when defending itself against the US-backed Iraqi attack in the 1980's. And which is constantly being threatened with attack by US-backed Israel.

Who are the bad guys again?

Ah, but that was in the name of freedom, you see! They're spreading 'democracy', one bullet at a time.

It's nothing about oil or empire building... oh no...

Please report to the propaganda station for a full briefing!

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Thank you for illustrating my point about oversimplifying.

There's no need to be so supercilious. It was a forum post, not an encyclopaedia entry. :rolleyes:

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